Tie Fighters -v- Shuttle Craft

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2002-10-03 02:26am

Nasty versus their own...but against a TIE?

Seriously the TIE is outlandishly manvuerable, and then take into account of the better nastier variants...this literally looks like sending a pigeon after a hawk...

And if you take into the other variants...sorry it becomes a controlable rocket enhanced bird of doom vs a slow moving crippled pigeon.

Nobody · Post by **Nobody** » 2002-10-03 01:06pm

NF_Utvol wrote:
Actually, there are some that are heavily armed. Most of them have at least two phaser strips, while heavily armed ones such as the Type 10 Carry two Type V phaser arrays with two micro torp tubes. And the federation also has fighters. Nasty little buggers they are.

I didn't know that... Ok, MAYBE they could CONCIEVABLY take out a TIE, if they got REALLY lucky...

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2002-10-03 05:41pm

I've seen Delta flyers at the beach, and I highly doubt those manned kites would withstand a blaster, much less be spaceworthy.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2002-10-03 05:45pm

Cpt_Frank wrote:Looking at the runabouts (which seem to be the closes to snubfigters ST has to offer) those are also dead against TIEs due to inferior maneuverability and weapons.

You bastard, you stole my planned custom title. Oh well.

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2002-10-03 11:20pm

Delta Flyer has 8 phaser emiters.

Maybe it's just a trekkie thing, but... how do you know what a phaser emitter looks like?

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-10-03 11:23pm

SPOOFE wrote:
Delta Flyer has 8 phaser emiters.
Maybe it's just a trekkie thing, but... how do you know what a phaser emitter looks like?

Arrays actually. They look a lot like the ones on the bigger ships. See those straight strips? Thats them, and there are 8 of them.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2002-10-04 01:26am

Not to nitpick, but TIEs do have air in them, but the air isn't recycled. Without air, the pilot will freeze to death in the vacuum(ref. Starfighters of Adumar)

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2002-10-04 02:04am

Darth Yoshi wrote:Not to nitpick, but TIEs do have air in them, but the air isn't recycled. Without air, the pilot will freeze to death in the vacuum(ref. Starfighters of Adumar)

that's why the pilots wear those spacesuits to fly a tie. and if its not recycled than the air is basically useless to the feddy guy when he beams over.

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-10-04 08:00am

Why are you assuming the feds can get a transporter lock on the TIE at all? No reason to do so. And the air in there will probably last for 10 minutes not much longer, after that the feddie guy is gonna die a cruel death if he's not frozen already.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-10-04 10:52am

Cpt_Frank wrote:Why are you assuming the feds can get a transporter lock on the TIE at all? No reason to do so. And the air in there will probably last for 10 minutes not much longer, after that the feddie guy is gonna die a cruel death if he's not frozen already.

Just why is there no reason to assume they can transport? Because we never saw it done before? Do we have any evidence that specificaly says they can't? Under the same line of reasoning we can assume the Tie will loose to the Shuttle. Why? Because we have never seen it win before. The assumption is completely illogical and is not supported by any evidence. We even have an example of a ship board transporter managing to transport someone off a shuttle that was spinning out of control.

Generaly most technologies in a debate are assumed to work unless their is evidence to the contrary. (IE Sensor jamming disrupting long range fire, sensors, communication, transporters, etc...)

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-10-04 10:59am

Just why is there no reason to assume they can transport? Because we never saw it done before? Do we have any evidence that specificaly says they can't? Under the same line of reasoning we can assume the Tie will loose to the Shuttle. Why? Because we have never seen it win before. The assumption is completely illogical and is not supported by any evidence. We even have an example of a ship board transporter managing to transport someone off a shuttle that was spinning out of control.

Generaly most technologies in a debate are assumed to work unless their is evidence to the contrary. (IE Sensor jamming disrupting long range fire, sensors, communication, transporters, etc...)

I never said anything like that. It's irrelevant nonetheless since normally a TIE vs shuttle or delta flyer situation will occur during a battle, where all the heavy jamming is up and will prevent the use of transporters anyway.

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » 2002-10-04 01:01pm

Oh, and the fact that SW fighters carry there on jamming suites.

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » 2002-10-04 01:11pm

Besides the fed pilot would be to busy trying to save his own ass to try anything that stupid.

So shuttles mount to phasers huh? Who wants to wager that they aren't in the kiloton range. Even if we generously assume that a fed capital ship torpedo is 64 MT, and scale it down to micro torpedo size. Thats still not impressive against 100+ MT fighter torpedos a TIE Defender could mount.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2002-10-04 02:23pm

Reasons transporting into a TIE is unlikely:

High Relative Velocity.
Dura-armour, which is supposed to be partially neutronium.
Lots of power(Remember, they've been unable to transport due to proximity to a power transformer)
Avengers, Advanced, Defenders, and Scimitars, as well as Interceptors in the Thrawn era, the TIE Claw in NJO, and the Preybirds are all shielded.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-10-04 02:31pm

Don't forget size constraints, unless you transport INTO the pilot anything you beam will be partialy fused withe the craft

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2002-10-05 03:34pm

Nobody wrote:
NF_Utvol wrote:
Actually, there are some that are heavily armed. Most of them have at least two phaser strips, while heavily armed ones such as the Type 10 Carry two Type V phaser arrays with two micro torp tubes. And the federation also has fighters. Nasty little buggers they are.
I didn't know that... Ok, MAYBE they could CONCIEVABLY take out a TIE, if they got REALLY lucky...

Really depends on the pilot. Plus the fact that, one on one, a Tie Fighter dont have shields and a shuttle does, and a heavier shuttle has much more weaponry (including torps and phaser arrays that can shoot in arcs, not just straight ahead) than a TIE, so CONCIEVEABLY, a single TIE would have no chance agains a shuttle. But a TIE squad would defeat a shuttle because of sheer numbers. It depends on pilots too.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2002-10-05 06:20pm

As I recall, TIEs don't use dura-armor/durasteel. THey use Quadanium steel. I could be wrong though

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2002-10-06 05:49pm

RayCav of ASVS wrote:That one person was right: shuttles are space-born delivery vans. Hell, they look like space born delivery vans, all boxy as hell! I don't believe any of the TNG shuttles have any weapons whatsoever, not certainly the shuttlepods.

BTW, except for runabouts and the DF I hate post TNG shuttles. Shuttles during Picard's time and before were cool because they were practical; boxes with small impulse engines strapped, on, extremely utliltarian, nice touchpad control panels (bad for a fighter but nice for a shuttle; I'd equate it to having a manual on a Corvette as opposed to having an auto on a Chevy Express van; you wouldn't want one on the other but they're nice to have on their respective vehicles), and just plain seats. Nice in a government owned Crown Vic kinda way. Now, with Voyager, they tried to jazz them all up with stupid fucking organic curves (type 8 and class 2) and now they just look like the typical stupid fanboy wankfest creations that so typify Voyager. Something that has gotten worse with Insurrection (trying to make a Chevy Express into a pretend Corvette). It sickens me.

The only real exception is the DF. I'd say it's more of a...say, Impala. With guns Clearly meant to take on at least a partial fighter role, so not quite just a glorified shuttle, but also meant to do runabout duties if necessary. Really, it's just Starfleet's capship philosphy, in minature.

Runabouts look nice too, they look real utilitarian like a SW craft

The fact that a cargo shuttle has weapons at all is evidence that SF is either paranoid or very good at waisting resources. The runnabout is a good idea but it still has those massive interior quarters for everyone. On a light ship that's just stupid how long do they expext these things to operate anyway.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-10-06 05:54pm

Actually, a better reason for why we can assume that SF transporters would probably not be able to lock onto the TIE's is the functioning of the TIE itself. The TIE has very large radiator ports which pump out [trumpet] radiation. Their engines crank out large quantities of ions, both of which cause problems with transporters.

Air inside the TIE would not be much of a problem for SF personnel, though, once they had beamed over. Humans only consume the oxygen in about a liter and a half of air per hour. That's not very significant, at all, unless a person is extremely confined for a long period of time.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2002-10-06 06:11pm

I think a more even match would be a Lambda shuttle vs. a ST shuttle, at least there you have two glorified delivery vans up against each other.

Patrick Ogaard · Post by **Patrick Ogaard** » 2002-10-06 06:28pm

Stravo wrote:I think a more even match would be a Lambda shuttle vs. a ST shuttle, at least there you have two glorified delivery vans up against each other.

But the Lambda has 5 dual laser cannon, including a rear-firing set, and it has a hyperdrive.
http://www.starwars.com/databank/starsh ... index.html

Pitting a Star Wars delivery van against a Star Trek delivery van might not be entirely fair.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-10-06 06:49pm

I think a more even match would be a Lambda shuttle vs. a ST shuttle, at least there you have two glorified delivery vans up against each other.

I assume you mean ARMED?

Lambda can take more damage than the avarage ST Capship, Unless you want to suggest that ST Shuttles can kill ST Capships of course

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2002-10-06 07:05pm

Lambda shuttles have better shields, don't they? I seriously doubt that the ST shuttle will scratch the paint.

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Tie Fighters -v- Shuttle Craft

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