The Federation will be able to defeat any Empire invasion.

[Gandalf]

I do not know. If it is possible I'll leave it up to the Fed's to figure it out over a few millenia.

So your last hope for the Federation is a remote colony which has to come up with a solution for beating an Empire which has the resources of a galaxy and tens of millenia of development behind them?

[Lach]

Surely Lach will give evidence that this "galactic shield" is powerful enough to protect against Imperial vessels and the like. You know, give numbers and evidence to support his assertations.

Haha! Just kidding.

Well the Kelvans from Andromeda were able to make through the galactic barrier in the TOS episode "By any other name". I doubt the barrier is as tough as Lach thinks.

According to the Q strike series it was made by the Q's to stop travel into and out of the galaxy against anyone up to and including some other Q level entities...... that however is not cannon so it is not "official" even though it is in the largest star trek series(over 100 books).

[Lach]

I do not know. If it is possible I'll leave it up to the Fed's to figure it out over a few millenia.

So your last hope for the Federation is a remote colony which has to come up with a solution for beating an Empire which has the resources of a galaxy and tens of millenia of development behind them?

They will know when and where the enemy is. I think you are seriously underestimating how ENORMEOUS of a strategic advantage that alone is.

There has never been better intelligence on the enemy, their locations and their composition in the history of... history then there would be in this conflict.

[Knife]

Which previous point specifically do you feel I have not adressed? How is it cheating to get a couple thousand years of work behind their attempt? *THEY* are doing it themselves, a magical pixy wand is not being waved for it to happen. This is one weapon the Federation has in its arsenal-granted it is a VERY complicated weapon but that does not negate the fact it exists. You keep bringing up ships when I keep saying they do not need ships. All they need is a massive bomb technology and a borg style delivery system. It IS still ST vs SW-who says the battle has to take place over the course of one year or one hundred? From the empires perspective it would ideally be very short... empire enters galaxy, several hundred solar nova level explosions instantly destroy their fleet.... battle ends.

What you haven't adressed is the idea of infanate resourses on a small world. You haven't addressed how they would actually absorb any info brought back or how they'd get anything into production.

Think of the A bomb. Theoretically, they knew it was possible, but it took the resources of one of the biggest and richest countries to bring it about and they only had two for the war.

That was the resources of the entire country. You think, on the other hand, that one starship full of people can use a 'reset button' trick to flash forward their tech and have the resources to do so to give them thousands of high explosive yield weapons to defeat the Empire.

On top of that, you've not explained what weapon this is or if it would be effective against the Tera Ton level shielding of the Empire, or a delievery system that would get it there unnoticed (let me guess, go back in time and put it right where its needed, right?), or that the Empire is dumb enough to let a bomb just come right at them without counter fire or measures.

If you keep going back in time, and even if you do have new advances, you still have the exact same equipment that you did when you started. You still have the same resources and the same basic understanding of the original tech that you did when you started.

It won't work.

Do you think you could go back to the Dark Ages with a text book and nothing else, then use that knowledge to and the resources there to build a TV set? And even if you eventually do, what are you going to pick up on it and who's going to watch it?

Most people know the basics of how a car works. If you get transported to 213BC in or about Rome, could you build a working replica of a Chevy Camero? Could you teach the Romans how to do it any better?

These are your problems.

And NO, if you use your magic bullet (not that it'll work) to give the feds shit that they don't have, then its not ST v SW. Its SW v super uber shit the Feds don't have.

[Lach]

I have to sleep... i'll get back to this tommorow.

[Knife]

They will know when and where the enemy is. I think you are seriously underestimating how ENORMEOUS of a strategic advantage that alone is.

There has never been better intelligence on the enemy, their locations and their composition in the history of... history then there would be in this conflict.

Do you honestly think that if a couple of Phalanxs knew when and where a USMC MEF were going to attack Sparta, that it'll make any difference?

[Gandalf]

So your last hope for the Federation is a remote colony which has to come up with a solution for beating an Empire which has the resources of a galaxy and tens of millenia of development behind them?

They will know when and where the enemy is. I think you are seriously underestimating how ENORMEOUS of a strategic advantage that alone is.

There has never been better intelligence on the enemy, their locations and their composition in the history of... history then there would be in this conflict.

They could know everything about the Imperial ships, they still need the resources to be able to beat them.

[Lach]

I'll respond more thoroughly tommorow but.....

I know intimatley how a combustion engine works.

If you dropped me in the year 2340 B.C.-with the co-operation of others so I coul dget the materials I need.... I could build a car. I know how to make a forge to burn hot enough to make steel, I know know how to cast steel. I know how the gear ratios work-I know how to design the neccesary equipment involved.

Drop me in the year 2340 B.C. now, with the help of a Roman City I could build a fully functional car in 10 years.

[Knife]

I'll respond more thoroughly tommorow but.....

I know intimatley how a combustion engine works.

If you dropped me in the year 2340 B.C.-with the co-operation of others so I coul dget the materials I need.... I could build a car. I know how to make a forge to burn hot enough to make steel, I know know how to cast steel. I know how the gear ratios work-I know how to design the neccesary equipment involved.

Drop me in the year 2340 B.C. now, with the help of a Roman City I could build a fully functional car in 10 years.

And you can make the glass, and you can make the plastic parts, and you can make the gas, the oil, the transmission fluid, the power steering fluid, you can make the computer chips, the radiator, the light bulbs, the rubber for the tires, the machinery to make the parts, the electricity to run those machines, the equipment to mine and collect all those resourses.



You could undoubtedly make vast improvements on the exsisting tech of that era, but a Camero? No. You don't have the resources, nor does the era have the basic infrastructure to collect or create the pieces to make a Camero.

[Armored Goldbar]

I'll respond more thoroughly tommorow but.....

I know intimatley how a combustion engine works.

If you dropped me in the year 2340 B.C.-with the co-operation of others so I coul dget the materials I need.... I could build a car. I know how to make a forge to burn hot enough to make steel, I know know how to cast steel. I know how the gear ratios work-I know how to design the neccesary equipment involved.

Drop me in the year 2340 B.C. now, with the help of a Roman City I could build a fully functional car in 10 years.

Right, you'd be able to effortlessly make a fairly complex material with no tools or foundries utilizing crafts principles that can take a lifetime to master.

I stand by my previous assessment: You are a goddamn idiot.

[Stark]

Hey, at least we know where his crackpot idea comes from. If the Uber Lach could give the Romans Camaros, imagine what INFINITE LOOPING UBER LACHS could give the Romans!! HE WOULD BE UNSTOPPABLEZOR OMFGWTF!!!!!1!11o!neone1!1one1on1e!11

He obviously doesn't understand how progress or technology really work. I want an .mpg of DWs reaction on reading the 'I would rule the Romans with my 1337 tech tree whoring' post.

[omegaLancer]

Hey, at least we know where his crackpot idea comes from. If the Uber Lach could give the Romans Camaros, imagine what INFINITE LOOPING UBER LACHS could give the Romans!! HE WOULD BE UNSTOPPABLEZOR OMFGWTF!!!!!1!11o!neone1!1one1on1e!11

He obviously doesn't understand how progress or technology really work. I want an .mpg of DWs reaction on reading the 'I would rule the Romans with my 1337 tech tree whoring' post.

notice he doesnot say that he knows how refine gasoline. What is a combustion engine to run on!!!

... As it stand the Roman Engineer Hero already know about Gear ratios, how to create a stream engine, and romans also imported steel from india, so why no roman automobile...

[Sarevok]

I'll respond more thoroughly tommorow but.....

I know intimatley how a combustion engine works.

If you dropped me in the year 2340 B.C.-with the co-operation of others so I coul dget the materials I need.... I could build a car. I know how to make a forge to burn hot enough to make steel, I know know how to cast steel. I know how the gear ratios work-I know how to design the neccesary equipment involved.

Drop me in the year 2340 B.C. now, with the help of a Roman City I could build a fully functional car in 10 years.

Bullshit. You cant find the technology to refine high quality steel needed for a car. Then there is no way you can produce the necessary rubber, plastic and other materials needed for a car. Also a car requires electrical components, something you can build in 2340 BC. There are a whole lot of other things too that you cant aquire in the past.

And most importantly you cant produce high quality oil needed for a car.

[Gandalf]

Bullshit.

Is that the first time you've cursed like that here?

[omegaLancer]

Just to add to ways that the Empire can simply negate any effort by a small band of starfleet personnel escaping into the past.

Since the Empire would so easily control the Federation and the galaxy what is to prevent them from using the living time machine, from the TOS episode "city on the edge of forever" the Guardian of forever from sending a few bountry hunter to track down and erradicate any who attempt to escape into the past....

I mean it was so easy to use that an insane mccoy just jump right thru it and end up on earth in the 1930, all the imperial have to do is ask the Guardian where and were the so call Federation Research station in the past is and send in the storm troopers...

[Robert Walper]

Broken down simply:

A) Empire crushes Federation.
B) Time travellers go back and warn Federation.
C) Federation prepares ahead of time for imminent invasion.
D) Goto A

Repeat as often as necessary.

[DaveJB]

Broken down simply:

A) Empire crushes Federation.
B) Time travellers go back and warn Federation.
C) Federation prepares ahead of time for imminent invasion.
D) Goto A

Repeat as often as necessary.

How would having advance notice of the Empire's invasion overcome the Federation's massive technological disadvantage?

[Kamakazie Sith]

Broken down simply:

A) Empire crushes Federation.
B) Time travellers go back and warn Federation.
C) Federation prepares ahead of time for imminent invasion.
D) Goto A

Repeat as often as necessary.

How would having advance notice of the Empire's invasion overcome the Federation's massive technological disadvantage?

I suggest you read that again

[DaveJB]

I suggest you read that again

I saw the "prepare" part, but even if they went back to Kirk's time it would ultimately be for nothing, unless someone would like to argue that the Federation could have increased their firepower by hundreds of thousands of times between TOS and TNG, but chose not to.

[Prozac the Robert]

I suggest you read that again

I saw the "prepare" part, but even if they went back to Kirk's time it would ultimately be for nothing, unless someone would like to argue that the Federation could have increased their firepower by hundreds of thousands of times between TOS and TNG, but chose not to.

If they knew exactly where the imperials were going to appear they could just fill the area with antimatter bombs. Millions of them even. Enough to melt a completely shielded stardestroyer. Each one could have a cloaking device and that would be it really.

If the imps were coming in in waves they could put the bombs on shuttles and line them up in concentric spheres.

[Kamakazie Sith]

I suggest you read that again

I saw the "prepare" part, but even if they went back to Kirk's time it would ultimately be for nothing, unless someone would like to argue that the Federation could have increased their firepower by hundreds of thousands of times between TOS and TNG, but chose not to.

Of course, and that is what Robert is saying.

[brianeyci]

Broken down simply:

A) Empire crushes Federation.
B) Time travellers go back and warn Federation.
C) Federation prepares ahead of time for imminent invasion.
D) Goto A

Repeat as often as necessary.

I wonder what would happen if they did this too many times. Paradoxes? time travellers running into other time travellers?

For example, what would happen if time travel attempt A failed, which started time travel attempt B, which went to warn time travel attempt A about the trap, which meant that time travel attempt B should never have happened, which meant...

Oy.

Brian

[Bob the Gunslinger]

I'll respond more thoroughly tommorow but.....

I know intimatley how a combustion engine works.

If you dropped me in the year 2340 B.C.-with the co-operation of others so I coul dget the materials I need.... I could build a car. I know how to make a forge to burn hot enough to make steel, I know know how to cast steel. I know how the gear ratios work-I know how to design the neccesary equipment involved.

Drop me in the year 2340 B.C. now, with the help of a Roman City I could build a fully functional car in 10 years.

I'll do better than that. I'll drop you off with a guy named Stewart at SDI. With your mad MacGyver skillz and his uber-military training, you two could be the next Emperors of Rome.

[General Zod]

I suggest you read that again

I saw the "prepare" part, but even if they went back to Kirk's time it would ultimately be for nothing, unless someone would like to argue that the Federation could have increased their firepower by hundreds of thousands of times between TOS and TNG, but chose not to.

If they knew exactly where the imperials were going to appear they could just fill the area with antimatter bombs. Millions of them even. Enough to melt a completely shielded stardestroyer. Each one could have a cloaking device and that would be it really.

If the imps were coming in in waves they could put the bombs on shuttles and line them up in concentric spheres.

from everything we've seen on screen, starships only carry at most a few hundred torpedoes. i can't imagine it would be feasible to create millions of antimatter bombs. hell, mining the wormhole at ds9 took them forever to accomplish, and they were just barely able to pull it off.

[Kamakazie Sith]

from everything we've seen on screen, starships only carry at most a few hundred torpedoes. i can't imagine it would be feasible to create millions of antimatter bombs. hell, mining the wormhole at ds9 took them forever to accomplish, and they were just barely able to pull it off.

Didn't they just use the Defiant to mine the wormhole? But I agree, unless the entire starfleet participated then that wouldn't be something they could accomplish. An the likelyhood of the entire starfleet participating is very low due to defense concerns from neighbooring races.