Would you rather be a citizen Imps or the Feds?

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Metrion Cascade
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Post by Metrion Cascade »

Lord Pounder wrote:
Metrion Cascade wrote:Federation. On Earth nobody starves, while off Earth you can indulge in capitalism. If Shinzon can secretly build the Scimitar, I want something like a Sovereign with Janeway's armor and torpedoes.

And Q isn't really going to let anything truly heinous happen to humanity. They've gotten fucked with, but they're still around after facing the Borg multiple times and then the Dominion. More than you can say for Arturis' race or the El-Aurians or the Cataati or the Promellians or the Kataanians or the Iconians. How many human races in how many sci-fi franchises have been in so many utterly fucked situations and gotten out of them?

Besides. We've seen futures centuries ahead of VOY and the Federation is still around in damn near all of them. Never mind Temporal Investigations looking out for us.

Federation Earth may be a bunch of pussy communists who won't admit they have a military, but it's a more open society and probably easier to improve without bloodshed (compare the US to, say, Iran). And they may not have the Empire's forces (yet :lol:), but they don't have the Empire's enemies either. The Borg are the worst corporeal race Trek has (if they're still around), and there's at least one Fed ship that can eat them for breakfast. And for damn sure I'd do a better job than Starfleet of capitalizing on whatever new tech I found, since earth-shaking discoveries seem to be at the fingertips of anyone with warp drive in Trek.
I'm sorry but where have you gotten the laughable idea that the Q are humanities guardian angel? Point in question, who introduced the Borg to Picard and company? Who set up humanity for trial in the first TNG episode and destruction by their own hand in All Good Things? And most importantly who sat on their hands while the Federation was about to be wiped out by the Dominion?

Of course the Federation is going to exist in any flash forwards, it's a bloody show about the federation. However given the way quantium physics is suposed to work, every possible conclusion branching off infinately, how can you count something that isn't there?
All Good Things was an illusion. The anti-time eruption and time travel never happened in any sense. Not only is there no evidence that Q created the antitime eruption if it had happened, but if any of those events were real then the TNG era and TNG+20 era would have been affected by the changes in the timeline.

The entire time, Q has been putting humanity (and, individually, Picard) in tough situations to make the most of their potential. He's got the ability to travel through time at will, does so just for fun, and probably knew the Dominion wouldn't destroy the Federation. He'll let bad things happen to humans out in space, but none of his interventions have ever led to anything bad happening on Earth.

Sure, we haven't seen every possible future. But every future we've seen where the Federation made it to the 24th century had them still around 500-700 years later. They've got time travel by then and are using it to ensure the Federation's survival in as many timelines as possible. And I'm probably only going to live 120 years anyway unless I find some really tight tech or decide to find a way into the Nexus. Yeah, there'll be timelines where I die horribly from a metrion cascade or a thalaron pulse ten minutes after being born, but all are highly unlikely.
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Metrion Cascade
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Post by Metrion Cascade »

More evidence that Temporal Investigations is influencing the timelines that include the Federation:

In the episode where Worf was jumping from timeline to timeline, a breach occurred that started bringing ships from other timelines into the area. And every single one of hundreds of thousands of ships that showed up was some version of the Enterprise-D. Some of them had it really bad, but no Borg cubes or Romulan or even Cardassian ships showed up.
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Post by Lord Pounder »

Metrion Cascade wrote:More evidence that Temporal Investigations is influencing the timelines that include the Federation:

In the episode where Worf was jumping from timeline to timeline, a breach occurred that started bringing ships from other timelines into the area. And every single one of hundreds of thousands of ships that showed up was some version of the Enterprise-D. Some of them had it really bad, but no Borg cubes or Romulan or even Cardassian ships showed up.
Yeah thats exactly the eposide i was think off when i mentioined quantium physics, however how can you tell how many universes with no Startfleet are represented?
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Post by Lord Pounder »

On another point show me one instance where Q has intervened on behalf of humanity apart from fixing his own pranks.
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Metrion Cascade
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Post by Metrion Cascade »

Lord Pounder wrote:
Metrion Cascade wrote:More evidence that Temporal Investigations is influencing the timelines that include the Federation:

In the episode where Worf was jumping from timeline to timeline, a breach occurred that started bringing ships from other timelines into the area. And every single one of hundreds of thousands of ships that showed up was some version of the Enterprise-D. Some of them had it really bad, but no Borg cubes or Romulan or even Cardassian ships showed up.
Yeah thats exactly the eposide i was think off when i mentioined quantium physics, however how can you tell how many universes with no Startfleet are represented?
If infinite universes were represented, there should have been some where another race had control of the system or another race was spying on the Federation using the array. But not a single other ship showed up - not even any enemies tailing the Enterprises.

But...no extra telescopes showed up either. Somehow out of hundreds of thousands of timelines, the E-D was there in most, unopposed, for totally different reasons.
Lord Pounder wrote:On another point show me one instance where Q has intervened on behalf of humanity apart from fixing his own pranks.
Q's main idea of doing that is to toughen humanity up a la the Shadows. He used the events in most episodes to either educate or entertain Picard and company. He's recruited humans (one was from Picard's crew and the other just happened to be on the E-D when he showed up) to join the Continuum twice. He saved Vash from multiple calamities and illnesses she ran into in the Delta Quadrant. He fixed Picard's heart in 'Tapestry.' At the end of 'Q2' he gave Janeway some help cutting a few years off the trip home. He's shown increasing interest in fleshing out humanity's potential to the extent of making humans Q, and even his pranks of late have been harmless. Destroying the Federation would at least amount to taking away Q's favorite toy or pet. Why would he let that happen when he can stop most of the Federation's enemies effortlessly? What other interaction have we seen between Q and Milky Way races? The El-Aurians hated him. One Delta Quadrant race called him the God of Lies. He tortured the Calamarain. Countless thousands of races (some more powerful than the Federation) have fallen to the Borg, and Q didn't save any of them. Then he finds humanity and the worst he does is put them in a position to nearly wipe the Borg out. Within a few years of Q's intervention the Borg devote more resources to taking out Earth than they've used on any other race until Species 8472, and they lose anyway.

And I'd offer Q as a possible explanation for a lot of the more unlikely things that have saved the Federation at the last moment. Surely he knew when he arranged the events of 'Q Who' that Picard would be assimilated and would later save Earth from both Borg attacks just in the nick of time. That the Borg ever attacked Earth was mainly Q's doing. It's coincidence that his human protege has been narrowly saving the Federation and others from untold hundreds of mortal threats ever since the very day they met? It's coincidence that his introducing the Federation to the most dangerous corporeal race in the galaxy led within a decade to the Federation dealing the same race its greatest setbacks?

There are also statements indicating that the Continuum government is at the very least opposed to directly causing discord within the galaxy. Q is stripped of his powers for abusing them. And in VOY 'Q2' he mentions the Continuum being opposed to provoking the Borg. And unlike in 'Q Who,' he apparently takes the rule seriously in 'Q2.'
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Post by Skylon »

I'd go with the Federation, but I'd rather it be the TOS-era Federation where capitalism was still all the rage and there were mini-skirts around every corner. :D
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Post by Murazor »

Federation all the way. Having life force sucked out of me isn't cool.
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Post by Junghalli »

Thread necromancy is discouraged. Just a tip from your freindly fellow board member.
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Post by Ghost Rider »

A month guys...and just going "Post +1" is not a good thing.

Junghalli is right, it's slightly discouraged.
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