1 SSD vs all of the Federation and It's allies

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-10-15 10:30pm

According to the TNG Technical manual, the effective range of phasers is exactly that, 300,000km.

The TNG and DS9 Tech Manuals are not Cannon

The Bane of Trekys Everwhere is while EU(Written supplments in the form of Books and ICS's) ARE Cannon Evidance(IE they are real and endorced by the assoative parent companys) in ST its not

ST Cannon is very simple
Movies
TV Series
NOTHING ELSE

As for your second question

Is there a tech manual for the SW universe? I'm curious to see what it says about weapon strength, shield strength, and ship capabilities in the SW universe. Any recommendations?

ICS, Increable Cross Sections
And WEG, West End Games Supplments no Longer aviable for purchase however avaible Online

Gunstar · Post by **Gunstar** » 2002-10-15 10:51pm

The TNG and DS9 Tech Manuals are not Cannon

The Bane of Trekys Everwhere is while EU(Written supplments in the form of Books and ICS's) ARE Cannon Evidance(IE they are real and endorced by the assoative parent companys) in ST its not

ST Cannon is very simple
Movies
TV Series
NOTHING ELSE

So, if I understand you correctly, you are saying that it has to be seen in the ST movies or TV series to be a valid argument point?

So then SW Cannon would be anything seen in the movies and that is it?

I just want to make sure I have this correct before continuing.

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-10-15 10:54pm

Yes, Gunstar, that's correct. It's Paramount policy.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2002-10-15 11:07pm

Star Wars Canon Policy:

CANON: (in order)
1. Films
1a. Film Scripts
2. Film Novelisations
3. Radio Dramas

OFFICIAL: (counts as canon unless overridden by canon, and then only on the contradicting item. Newer sources override older ones. There really isn't any order of heirarchy.)
WEG RPG Materials
WOTC RPG Materials
ICS Books
Visual Dictionaries
Novels
Video Game Plots
TV Series
TV Movies
CCG
Dark Horse Comics
Some Marvel Comics
Etc...

APOCRYPHA: (Non-canon and un-official. Not part of the continuity and is of no value whatsoever.)
Most Marvel Comics (I think)
The Profits of the Dark Side Young Reader Novels
Gameplay Mechanics
Toys

There may be some stuff I missed.

Gunstar · Post by **Gunstar** » 2002-10-15 11:32pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Star Wars Canon Policy:

CANON: (in order)
1. Films
1a. Film Scripts
2. Film Novelisations
3. Radio Dramas

OFFICIAL: (counts as canon unless overridden by canon, and then only on the contradicting item. Newer sources override older ones. There really isn't any order of heirarchy.)
WEG RPG Materials
WOTC RPG Materials
ICS Books
Visual Dictionaries
Novels
Video Game Plots
TV Series
TV Movies
CCG
Dark Horse Comics
Some Marvel Comics
Etc...

APOCRYPHA: (Non-canon and un-official. Not part of the continuity and is of no value whatsoever.)
Most Marvel Comics (I think)
The Profits of the Dark Side Young Reader Novels
Gameplay Mechanics
Toys

There may be some stuff I missed.

So for the pro-SW, any of the above is allowed for sake of discussion.

For ST, only the movies and TV series is allowed?

Would TV series for ST include the animated series? (if anyone remembers that)

Who actually determines "canon"?

Sorry if these seem like silly questions, but I'm just looking to find the rules of the "arguments" on these boards.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2002-10-15 11:38pm

Gunstar wrote:So for the pro-SW, any of the above is allowed for sake of discussion.

Everything except for those in Apocrypha. Apocrypha is treated as if it never happened, because technically, it didn't.

Also, add any Star Wars material that has the "Infinities" label.

For ST, only the movies and TV series is allowed?

Yes. Anything else is not accepted as canon. Star Trek has no "official" level, only canon.

Would TV series for ST include the animated series? (if anyone remembers that)

No.

Who actually determines "canon"?

The respecting creators and companies (Paramount for ST, LucasFilm for SW).

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-10-15 11:48pm

IG-88E wrote:Yes, Gunstar, that's correct. It's Paramount policy.

However the moral rights dictate that anything oked by Gene Roddenberry is also good. So any novels he wrote, co wrote, or took a large part in, also have a moral standing, and thus have higher standing then what Paramount might try and claim.

Gunstar · Post by **Gunstar** » 2002-10-16 12:26am

Alyeska wrote:
IG-88E wrote:Yes, Gunstar, that's correct. It's Paramount policy.
However the moral rights dictate that anything oked by Gene Roddenberry is also good. So any novels he wrote, co wrote, or took a large part in, also have a moral standing, and thus have higher standing then what Paramount might try and claim.

Then that would allow for the information in TNG Technical Manual due to the fact that the introduction to the manual is written by Roddenberry.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2002-10-16 12:27am

No.

Debates follow company canon policy.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-10-16 12:58am

Gunstar wrote:Then that would allow for the information in TNG Technical Manual due to the fact that the introduction to the manual is written by Roddenberry.

That's the most ridiculous thing I ever heard. Roddenberry wrote the intro, not the TM itself.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2002-10-16 01:00am

Darth Wong wrote:
Gunstar wrote:Then that would allow for the information in TNG Technical Manual due to the fact that the introduction to the manual is written by Roddenberry.
That's the most ridiculous thing I ever heard. Roddenberry wrote the intro, not the TM itself.

That's like saying the director wrote the screenplay(unless the credits say he did)

Gunstar · Post by **Gunstar** » 2002-10-16 07:02pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Gunstar wrote:Then that would allow for the information in TNG Technical Manual due to the fact that the introduction to the manual is written by Roddenberry.
That's the most ridiculous thing I ever heard. Roddenberry wrote the intro, not the TM itself.

Where can I find the official "canon" from Paramount?

I'm sure you've heard more rediculous things than that.

I wouldn't think that Roddenberry would have put his name on it if he didn't agree with the content.

Evil Jerk · Post by **Evil Jerk** » 2002-10-16 07:10pm

Gunstar wrote:I wouldn't think that Roddenberry would have put his name on it if he didn't agree with the content.

What? So now everything with Roddenberry's name on it is canon regardless of who wrote it?
HE didn't write the TM, therefore his moral rights don't count.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2002-10-16 10:34pm

Darth Wong wrote:That's the most ridiculous thing I ever heard. Roddenberry wrote the intro, not the TM itself.

You don't get out much, do you?

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-10-16 10:36pm

Evil Jerk wrote:
Gunstar wrote:I wouldn't think that Roddenberry would have put his name on it if he didn't agree with the content.
What? So now everything with Roddenberry's name on it is canon regardless of who wrote it?
HE didn't write the TM, therefore his moral rights don't count.

No, he merely authorized it, allowed his name to be put on it, and wrote a section of it. Thats pretty damned close to having moral rights to it.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-10-16 10:36pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:No.

Debates follow company canon policy.

Company Canon Policy is not equal to moral rights.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-10-16 11:14pm

I think that we as fans must learn to recognize that Paramount doesn't give a shit about canon policies, and they only make statements because the fans keep demanding one in the mistaken belief that the "truth" of a fictional universe is a simple matter of copyright.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2002-10-16 11:32pm

Alyeska wrote:
Spanky The Dolphin wrote:No.

Debates follow company canon policy.
Company Canon Policy is not equal to moral rights.

You wouldn't have even known about moral rights if Mike hadn't brought it up several days ago, you SB moron.

Why should the rules suddenly be changed after more than 10 years?

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-10-16 11:33pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:
Alyeska wrote:
Spanky The Dolphin wrote:No.

Debates follow company canon policy.
Company Canon Policy is not equal to moral rights.
You wouldn't have even known about moral rights if Mike hadn't brought it up several days ago, you SB moron.

Why should the rules suddenly be changed after more than 10 years?

What rules? Do you know how I have been debating?

Oh, an fuck you to. You accused the influx of trolls as having come from SB and insulted me for attempting to defend SB. Then when it was proven the trolls were SD.net mods, you didn't even bother apologize for your pathetic acusations. You can just go fuck yourself.

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-10-16 11:43pm

Yeah Spanky give Alyeska a break, I think he's a good addition to this forum; so what if he's from spacebattles, I visit there too, though I'm not registered.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2002-10-17 05:09am

Darth Wong wrote:I love that sonic weapon thing. I've been waiting for some idiot to try coming after me directly with that shit, so I can rip him to shreds on my Hate Mail page. But so far, no one's going for it.

<Slips on a Timothy Jones/Darkstar mask>

"Star TRek Sonic WEapons would shred any Imperial ship or planet with energy far exceeding the Death Star's ouput! Scotty said so!"

There ya go! Now disprove me!

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2002-10-17 05:11am

So I guess this means all the Calcs in the TM still stand, huh?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-10-19 12:49pm

Connor MacLeod wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:I love that sonic weapon thing. I've been waiting for some idiot to try coming after me directly with that shit, so I can rip him to shreds on my Hate Mail page. But so far, no one's going for it.
<Slips on a Timothy Jones/Darkstar mask>

"Star TRek Sonic WEapons would shred any Imperial ship or planet with energy far exceeding the Death Star's ouput! Scotty said so!"

There ya go! Now disprove me!

Your suffering will be legendary. Even in Hell!

(a cookie to whoever knows where that line came from)

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-10-19 01:27pm

Err... wasn't that from that weird movie.... hellraiser? I believe (been some time I've seen it)

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-10-19 01:30pm

Cpt_Frank wrote:Err... wasn't that from that weird movie.... hellraiser? I believe (been some time I've seen it)

Shit, somebody got it on the first guess! Yeah, it was from PinHead (remember him?).