Didn't you see my attempt to argue that shot down earlier? In TNG, only the Descent Borg had wrist blasters. In Voyager, apparently Seven actually had and used one in the episode where her scout ship crashes and the drone survivors start to snap out of it. I don't know if there's enough evidence for a firepower calc, but I expect they suck compared to blasters - you just can't say 'they don't exist' any more, only 'they never use them on their own ships and they never used them in First Contact'.
No you can't, what with them never ever doing it anywhere in Star Trek.
The Borg 'scooped up' several whole Federation and Romulan colonies in 'The Neutral Zone' (actually that's presumption AFAIK, all we saw on screen was a big blackened crater with dialog that all traces of the colony were gone and there were no traces of weapons they could identify). But those presumably didn't have theatre shields.
Starglider wrote:Didn't you see my attempt to argue that shot down earlier? In TNG, only the Descent Borg had wrist blasters. In Voyager, apparently Seven actually had and used one in the episode where her scout ship crashes and the drone survivors start to snap out of it. I don't know if there's enough evidence for a firepower calc, but I expect they suck compared to blasters - you just can't say 'they don't exist' any more, only 'they never use them on their own ships and they never used them in First Contact'.
So according to that, the borg only use their wrist weapons when they're using their brains. IOW, not part of the collective.
The Borg 'scooped up' several whole Federation and Romulan colonies in 'The Neutral Zone' (actually that's presumption AFAIK, all we saw on screen was a big blackened crater with dialog that all traces of the colony were gone and there were no traces of weapons they could identify). But those presumably didn't have theatre shields.
No, we saw the crater in BOBW. In 'The Neutral Zone' I don't recall ever seeing any craters, just hearing about the disappearing outposts and the Romulans taking a cheap shot at the Feds saying they knew it couldn't have been the Federation who destroyed their outposts since the damage was too great.
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Didn't you see my attempt to argue that shot down earlier? In TNG, only the Descent Borg had wrist blasters. In Voyager, apparently Seven actually had and used one in the episode where her scout ship crashes and the drone survivors start to snap out of it. I don't know if there's enough evidence for a firepower calc, but I expect they suck compared to blasters - you just can't say 'they don't exist' any more, only 'they never use them on their own ships and they never used them in First Contact'.
Fine, so they for all practical purposes don't exist what with the only Drones ever using them are non-Collective ones.
No you can't, what with them never ever doing it anywhere in Star Trek.
The Borg 'scooped up' several whole Federation and Romulan colonies in 'The Neutral Zone' (actually that's presumption AFAIK, all we saw on screen was a big blackened crater with dialog that all traces of the colony were gone and there were no traces of weapons they could identify). But those presumably didn't have theatre shields.
That was in response to
I left them probing the swamps and other undefended surfaces in the planetside scenario
, which so far the Borg have done exactly never.
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Starglider at least I know the meaning of combined arms warfare... I also pointed out it was a primative form of it - which you chose to ignore. A Napoleonic army is an organised force diciplined (the Gungans are also) and comprising of three elements - artillery (and this period is where we get the concept of artillery batteries from) cavalry and infantry. Due to technical limitations which the Gungans dont have Napoleon wasn't able to have air support - something you should already know. Every part of the army had its own job and task in the overall plan thus we can deduce the Gungans will most likely work the same way.
The Gungan submersible is capable of traversing the depths (stated as travelling THROUGH the core) and surviving an encounter with enourmous and hungry wildlife, if you can build a submarine that could do the same (let alone what is effectively a personal car) I will personally worship your engineering abilities. For these reasons I personally think it is prudent to at least consider the gungans capable of building their own starships. Yes their lunar presence can be explained by buying starships from the Naboo surface cities or the galaxy at large - this would mean their ships far outclass cubes anyhow.
As for shield interaction we dont KNOW but we can suspect ... the evidence sways to you needing to be completly organic or Jedi to pass through a shield you you get very hot ... also you need to touch the ground which is why AT walkers got made...
In any case I was mainly just voicing my opinions on why the borg lose and brocks train of logic and his whining that we all nitpick and go "la-la-la" when someone comes up with a "killer" argument. I happen to think the ST-SW debate is largly dead and we are just educating as the firepower and shielding let alone ppower generation is so disparate bettween the groups it is pretty much for st to win create a optimum situation where SW do it all wrong.
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gheto edit by completely organic I ment completely inorganic ... I sometimes get mixed up ... I mean strapons are so lifelike these days...
"Depending on who you talk to, a mercenary can be anything from a savior to the scum of the universe. On the Wolf's Dragoons world of Outreach, the Mercenary's Star, we know what a merc really is - a business man." - Wolf's Dragoons, Outreach (Merc World mag. 3056)
harbringer wrote:Starglider at least I know the meaning of combined arms warfare... I also pointed out it was a primative form of it - which you chose to ignore. A Napoleonic army is an organised force diciplined (the Gungans are also) and comprising of three elements - artillery (and this period is where we get the concept of artillery batteries from) cavalry and infantry.
True. The Gungans are a combined arms force in the original sense. They aren't as credible a force as the Trade Federation, which are a modern combined arms force with armour (tanks, APCs) and air support (though they didn't use the droid fighters in the ground battle because the theatre shield renders them useless). But compared to the Borg they're advanced military geniuses. I'm not sure the cavalry buys them much though, since the borg are already easy to outrun on foot, but no cavalry can compete with transporters (if the Borg can actually use them for ground maneuver).
Starglider wrote:I'm not sure the cavalry buys them much though, since the borg are already easy to outrun on foot, but no cavalry can compete with transporters (if the Borg can actually use them for ground maneuver).
Well even if the Borg did have any imagination and flexibility, the limitations of transporters mean such a strategy would be impossible.
The times transporters have been used to tactically move armies have been precisely zero; between limitations on how many can be transported at once and all the things that block transporters it's safe to say it's impossible.
"I do not understand why everything in this script must inevitably explode."~Teal'c
Oh wait you changed your tune again, what a surprise. So they DO have indigenous space capability now eh?
Read the rules, read the banner, go fuck yourself.
Oh cry me a fucking river. If you think the borg will win, either SHOW ME or SHUT THE FUCK UP. Don't cry and whinge about 'discussion' and how you 'weren't fighting to win'. \
Grow the fuck up, and stop fucking multiposting.
I never changed from my position that that Gungans would have to buy their space tech for a lunar colony.
Oh. My. God. They purchase goods and services from companies! Certainly they're doomed! The Gungans are obviously capitalist pigs degenerated into their reptilian forms, soon to be squashed by the iron boot of true socialism! Glorious communism manifested perfectly by the Borg Collective! The wheel of fate is inevitable, soon the glorious shambling cyborg proletariat shall be victorious! Borg drones, the exemplification of the worker's struggle against the bourgeoisie decadent Gugan capitalist pig dog lizards with their obese leader and inept Jar Jar! Hail!
*Borg Drones start goosestepping*
So what if they buy their shit? Israel buys F-15s from America, doesn't mean a Borg drone can beat an F-15.
"DO YOU WORSHIP HOMOSEXUALS?" - Curtis Saxton (source) shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN! Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people - PeZook Shroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic Pink Sugar Heart Attack!
No no he's saying that the Gungans don't know how their tech works, thus they are incapable of doing anything for themselves. I mean, the Naboo didn't have much of a starship industry either, despite being far richer, so clearly they can't do shit for themselves either. Those N-1 fighters probably used parts sourced from outside Naboo!
He also has made no effort to support any of his more ridiculous claims, like massive borg field armies or the ability of the borg to assimilate everything. Indeed, he just ignored an entire post to respond to one small, irrelevant part of it. But remember, he can't convince anyone because we're so blinkered and biased!
Well, maybe we're a bit too biased. Certainly infiltrating ninja Borg with steel masks and dark robes could kill a few of the 300 Gungans. They'd put their name to the test, and they'd fail Jar-Jar's test. And a Borg Queen who fancies herself a cyborg feels a very human chill crawling up her glowy metal spine.
And maybe he does have a point about the Gungans and Nabooians not knowing shit about their tech. I mean, those N-1s didn't do shit to the TradeFed DoomDonuts until widdle Anakin, who actually does know how the tech works since he fucks around with Star Wars space-legos, won the battle. See! In-universe events show that you must have knowledge of mechanisms, or else the torpedo you fire won't make the DoomDonut explode. With great power comes great responsibility. Just like by the lake on Naboo.
"DO YOU WORSHIP HOMOSEXUALS?" - Curtis Saxton (source) shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN! Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people - PeZook Shroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic Pink Sugar Heart Attack!
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- PeZook
