Worst overall ship design in ST/SW...

Post by **AdmiralKanos** » 2003-01-21 12:18am

Patrick Degan wrote:
AdmiralKanos wrote:Anything so flimsy that it's difficult to make a scale model which is structurally sound. That means the original E-Nil (despite its sentimental value) with its long, skinny nacelle struts with no fucking gussets or stress concentration relief radii at the base and most Romulan designs.
Just out of a matter of curiosity, when did you attempt building the model kit?

Many, many years ago, when I was still in public school.

I do remember that the first issue of the E-nil model did have a lousy nacelle mounting system which I never was able to get right. At some point in the 70s or 80s, though, they remoulded the kits and changed the nacelle mounts to a solid closed socket that you could snap the pylon into. I had one model take a fall and everything else broke but the nacelles. Those damn things stayed welded to the hull.

They must have reinforced that area on the inside after receiving complaints about the original design, thus explaining why everything else broke first in your case.

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2003-01-21 12:38am

Star Wars- Queen Amidala's yacht. They dipped a SR-71 in chrome. Not that I have anything against the SR-71, just that it's SO obvious. I kind of liked the chromiums in AoTC, though. An homage to GL's Flash Gordon inspiration.

Star Trek- The Vor'Cha. Beginning at the stern and going forward to where the command/weapons pod meets the boom, it's pretty cool. Then you get to the pod itself, which destroys all the alien feel and intimidating grooviness of the D-7 family and Bird of Prey. It's the juxtaposition of those organically rounded pods on an angular, no nonsense engineering section that gave 'em a forbidding character. The pod on the Vor'Cha looks like a Millenium Falcon kitbash.

These are only aesthetic considerations, but to misquote Ettore Bugatti, "A piece of engineering is not perfect if it is not perfect from the aesthetic viewpoint."

SpyderGS · Post by **SpyderGS** » 2003-01-21 11:07am

ST: Galaxy and anything based off Galaxy parts

SW: Neb B.

Soontir C'boath · Post by **Soontir C'boath** » 2003-01-21 03:24pm

Stravo wrote:I was never a fan of the Mon Cal cruisers. They were sinply not pretty ships, lumpy and organic looking these vessels look like flying tumors. Not pretty at all particularly when you put them up against Stradestroyers.

Converted luxory liners 'nuff said.

Cyaround,
Jason

generator_g1 · Post by **generator_g1** » 2003-01-22 06:14am

Can SW EU ships be added here? Anyway...

SW : Hapan battleships. They look like mobiles that you would hang in the window to catch the wind.

ST: Those first shuttlecraft from TNG. They really do look like shoeboxes with warp nacelles.

Captain Kruger · Post by **Captain Kruger** » 2003-01-22 07:07am

By bad designs, I take it you mean poorly designed/flimsy rather than aesthetically unattractive.

With that in mind:

SW: Definitely the Nebulon B frigate. All one has to do is snap that flimsy neck and you've got a wreck on your hands.

ST: The D-7 Klingon battlecruiser, for exactly the same reason. Sure, they look predatory and all that, but just how many torpedo impacts do you think that toothpick they call a neck could take?

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2003-01-22 07:43am

i've said it before and i'll say it again, the Oberth class looks like a robotic bird carrying a massive dildo.

and Neb B's and Y-Wings just look too fragile

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-01-22 09:22am

I think that all Klingon warships, with perhaps some exceptions, are bad designs. Not only do they have big, vulnerable wing areas, but the "neck" section is incredibly vulnerable too.

Then again, what do you expect from a species whose idea of combat tactics include dropping your guns and running screaming towards your enemy with a big knife??

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-01-22 01:19pm

I'd say practically all the TIE series and the Neb-Bs for Wars.

The Trek side can have anything by the Federation that had Enterprise on it and the original Romulan warbird plus the Valdore class.

Coaan · Post by **Coaan** » 2003-01-22 01:45pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:I'd say practically all the TIE series and the Neb-Bs for Wars.

The Trek side can have anything by the Federation that had Enterprise on it and the original Romulan warbird plus the Valdore class.

The Tie series was never designed to be long term fighters....they were there as throwaways...it's the reason ties ended up the third most abundant resource in the sw galaxy....after stupidity that was

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-01-22 03:18pm

Dr. Crusher's ship USS Pasteur from "All Good Things"

That ship was fugly.

Sektor31 · Post by **Sektor31** » 2003-01-22 06:35pm

Ah hell, I forgot about TIEs. Now I know a design worse than Fed ships.

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2003-01-23 05:35pm

Tie Starfighters and Bombers sure. But Interceptors are badass looking ships and can kick ass in the right hands.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-01-23 05:40pm

The TIE Interceptor looks fragile to me.

Vader's TIE X1 Advanced Prototype was always the best and most solid looking TIE.

Sektor31 · Post by **Sektor31** » 2003-01-23 06:02pm

Enterprise D:

TIE fighter:

There's my point. TIE fighters have a nice convenient target on their sides. Makes me wonder why the Rebels had trouble with them.

DeadM · Post by **DeadM** » 2003-01-23 06:16pm

ST: Most Klingon ships, I mean, look at them! If those Klingons are smart they would have made an system like the Galaxy class, a seperatable bridge, if you blow the neck, the bridge and the other part(engineering?) could work independent. But then its the Klingons were talking about...

SW: Im not sure, maybe those Naboo craft or something

Warspite · Post by **Warspite** » 2003-01-23 06:16pm

Sektor31 wrote:Enterprise D:
http://www.durfee.net/startrek/images/Enterprise-D.jpg

TIE fighter:
http://www001.upp.so-net.ne.jp/shitman/ ... r-back.jpg

There's my point. TIE fighters have a nice convenient target on their sides. Makes me wonder why the Rebels had trouble with them.

TIE's are stupidly maneuvrable, Han and Luke had trouble hitting 4 with targeting assisted turrets, and with only a shitload of luck (or the Force) can you hit a moving target on it's side.
That's why most air combat kills are made by shooting people in the back, it's easier than having to lead your shot on a maneuvrable target. (The so-called lethal cone is derived from this, Wicked Pilot can fill you in on the details.)

Moonshadow · Post by **Moonshadow** » 2003-01-24 02:37am

didn't someone say the Warbird made a fragile Model? I've never had to rebuild mine and it fell off my shelf several times.

anyway back on subject.

worst Trek Design. the Yeager Class, Its a oversized Maquis Fighter with warp nacelles on the wingtips and an Intrepid Saucer mounted to the front

worst Wars design. the Hornet Interceptor from the EU. i mean come on, a Bee shaped fighter?

Admiral Johnason · Post by **Admiral Johnason** » 2003-01-24 05:42pm

I am going to have to say the D7. WHat were the Klingons thinkin when they made taht puppy. One good trop hit to the connenting piece and boom. But the same goes for the Nebulans, except that they have better sheilds and it appers that both sections could surive without each other.

General Velal · Post by **General Velal** » 2003-01-25 12:31pm

What is wrong with the D'Deridex Class Warbird and the Valdore? I mean this is just visual preferance or some pixel by pixel 3rd vent on the left would not puff space gas properly thing? I mean besides for ships that land on planet surface, does its visual layout even become a factor? I mean Trek ships rely primarily on Sheilding backed up armour.

I'm not familiar with the Star Wars vessels, but I assume from the Star Destroyer-Mon Calamari slugfests I saw-they pack big amounts of armour-hold on as I type those I see those two giant ball things on my Star Wars Blueprints-Defletor Shield Dome-Its been a while with SW, The Deflector Shields are they the primary defensive measure on capital ships, backed up by armour?

Both universe vessel types have that the Bridge is right up in bullseye land design feature.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-01-25 12:37pm

General Velal wrote:What is wrong with the D'Deridex Class Warbird and the Valdore? I mean this is just visual preferance or some pixel by pixel 3rd vent on the left would not puff space gas properly thing? I mean besides for ships that land on planet surface, does its visual layout even become a factor? I mean Trek ships rely primarily on Sheilding backed up armour.

I'm not familiar with the Star Wars vessels, but I assume from the Star Destroyer-Mon Calamari slugfests I saw-they pack big amounts of armour-hold on as I type those I see those two giant ball things on my Star Wars Blueprints-Defletor Shield Dome-Its been a while with SW, The Deflector Shields are they the primary defensive measure on capital ships, backed up by armour?

Both universe vessel types have that the Bridge is right up in bullseye land design feature.

The Valdore and the D'Derix suck for one reason: Volume:Surface Area. The D'Derix design, I actually think looks pretty cool, but it's still not practical. With the Valdore, I think that it looks horrible AND its design is ridiculous. There is no reason to have such a huge surface area:volume ratio, and it would obviously decrease the ability of such a ship to effectively combat their enemies. Your discussion of what the "primary" defensive features of the various craft are is irrelevent for that particular part of the discussion.

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2003-01-25 12:47pm

Moonshadow wrote:didn't someone say the Warbird made a fragile Model? I've never had to rebuild mine and it fell off my shelf several times.
worst Trek Design. the Yeager Class, Its a oversized Maquis Fighter with warp nacelles on the wingtips and an Intrepid Saucer mounted to the front

If you will notice, the engineering section of the Yeager is actually an almost complete fuselage of an F-14 model turned around.

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2003-01-25 01:02pm

SW: The Sun Crusher. Was it actually the most ubdery of uber ships, and thsu mean it didn't have a bad design? Yes. BUT COME ON!!! It's invincible and is as powerful as the Death Star, despite beign a fighter. [comic book guy]Worst uber-technowank ever.[/comic book guy]

Oh but lets not forget ther all-powerful Vong ships! Their fucking made of coral butkiloton level laserscan't hurt them! Again not really bad design, but similar to the SC, really friggin lame!

ST:The Scimitar. Why the fuck would you build this big ass, super-to-fuck armed (with superweapons even) space ship when, it can be squashed in five seconds by a ship moving as fast as a one legged turtle on its back colliding into it! HOW LAME CAN IT GET!?

And that's my two cents.

General Velal · Post by **General Velal** » 2003-01-25 01:04pm

Master of Ossus wrote:The Valdore and the D'Derix suck for one reason: Volume:Surface Area. The D'Derix design, I actually think looks pretty cool, but it's still not practical. With the Valdore, I think that it looks horrible AND its design is ridiculous. There is no reason to have such a huge surface area:volume ratio, and it would obviously decrease the ability of such a ship to effectively combat their enemies. Your discussion of what the "primary" defensive features of the various craft are is irrelevent for that particular part of the discussion.

"irrelevent for that part of the discussion"? I'm really lost this thread confused me intially thats why I sought clarification with my FIRST post-now its another part of some discussion? You have just told me this goes here, that goes there-

"Now I will tell you why they suck-Volumes: Surface Area"-

Ok so to make it clear this thread is not worst ST/SW ship design-its Volume:Surface Area problems.-Forgive me you seemed to have assumed I was on that wavelength with my statements on ship layouts.

Ok, Right-Well my years of playing Traveller with its hardcore ship design stuff-may help me grasp part of what you are saying-The Ships design is a waste of internal/external space? if So- Yep I agree.

But I like the visual design of both with the reasons behind them in Romulan culture.

What I was getting at given that both universes have artificial gravity and relevant technologies to prevent the ships breaking apart under their respective FTL/Propulsion types-Then take in their unique engine/weapons layouts, I thougt from that point on the designs are mainly visual since I thought you were asking which ones I did and did not like visually-and the other replys give visual reasons.

SW: I hate the look of the flying cross-B-Wing is it?

ST: The Borg vessels-fine perfect for their 'Culture" but boring to the eye.

I'm glad you like the D'Deridex look too:)

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-01-25 01:14pm

General Velal wrote:"Now I will tell you why they suck-Volumes: Surface Area"-

Ok so to make it clear this thread is not worst ST/SW ship design-its Volume:Surface Area problems.-Forgive me you seemed to have assumed I was on that wavelength with my statements on ship layouts.

What are you talking about? Volume to surface area ratios are PART OF A DESIGN. In fact, they are a very large part of a design, and in this case they show quite clearly that the D'Derix and Valdore classes are very poor ones.

Ok, Right-Well my years of playing Traveller with its hardcore ship design stuff-may help me grasp part of what you are saying-The Ships design is a waste of internal/external space? if So- Yep I agree.

Kind of. It also makes shielding far less efficient, and makes it more difficult to allow for systems to be put into place.

What I was getting at given that both universes have artificial gravity and relevant technologies to prevent the ships breaking apart under their respective FTL/Propulsion types-Then take in their unique engine/weapons layouts, I thougt from that point on the designs are mainly visual since I thought you were asking which ones I did and did not like visually-and the other replys give visual reasons.

But this isn't what we saw in "Nemesis." A Valdore class ship was ripped apart by a single large volley of disruptor fire from the Scimitar. The Valdore DID break apart. Besides that, I still think that the Valdore LOOKS silly because it is so stupid. Moreover, one still needs to run support systems to various areas, and there are systems that necessarily must increase in size as the ship gets larger. The Valdore class is so poorly designed that it forces large systems into a small hull, and has no ability to resist stress and damage.

SW: I hate the look of the flying cross-B-Wing is it?

ST: The Borg vessels-fine perfect for their 'Culture" but boring to the eye.

It is the B-Wing. I also don't particularly like the Borg cube design, as it prevents a concentration of firepower.