What Are The Worst ST/SW Cop-Outs?

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2002-08-13 12:14am

I only like EU World Devastators. Those are innovative, not just another way to cause a big BOOM.

Vertigo1 · Post by **Vertigo1** » 2002-08-13 12:48am

Biggest SW copout: ICS!

(j/k!! :p)

Seriously though, I feel the biggest copout SW has is the invincible hero syndrome. Luke on the virge of becoming a christmas tree until dear old dad grows a concience and saves his whiney ass. :p

It all falls down to one big thing in every show and movie. Character shields. Main characters are never allowed to get hurt in any way without the great infamous reset button (thankfully nullified by decent writers). James Bond is a major offender in this arena. Moreso than the infamous ripped-shirt Kirk.

Atleast we have the New Jedi Order novels to keep us entertained (which I seriously feel that they should make a movie series out of the novels).

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2002-08-13 12:52am

It was kinda a major plot point that dear old dad save Luke.

The ways major characters in SW get out of trouble aren't like the ways the Swiss Army Navigational Deflector, at least (well, a good deal of the time).

Vertigo1 · Post by **Vertigo1** » 2002-08-13 12:53am

Raxmei wrote:
Ender wrote:3 day flame war that ended with most people taking a "Lets wait and see AOTC first" position and a few numbskulls like Lorkan and DarkStar continuing.
What did they do after they saw AOTC and the Acclamators didn't fire their guns?

Personally, I'm not taking the 200GT rating seriously till we actually see the ships in action. If it actually delivers that ammount of damage, then I'll believe it. I'm taking the famous "lets see it before we take opposite sides" side.

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2002-08-13 12:56am

I think that standpoint makes sense, as long as people who think that way accept the numbers in the meantime. It's annoying when you have the fanatics screaming "WE DIDN'T SEE IT SO WE DON'T HAVE TO ACCEPT IT, NER NER NER NER!"

Vertigo1 · Post by **Vertigo1** » 2002-08-13 01:09am

Yeah well, there's bad apples on both sides.

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2002-08-13 01:16am

I think the worst offender was the destruction of the Darksaber. HUGE effort goes into finding/building/destroying/something-ing the stupid thing and it crashes...into an asteroid.

Gee, do you think that the asteroid they hit has some white paint on it from a previous encounter? :rolleyes:

Antediluvian · Post by **Antediluvian** » 2002-08-13 02:45am

S8472 retreats after taking 10 casualities. They're built up to be this uber race, and they retreat after taking 10 casualities!

That goes beyond cop-out.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2002-08-13 02:53am

StarshipTitanic wrote:I think the worst offender was the destruction of the Darksaber. HUGE effort goes into finding/building/destroying/something-ing the stupid thing and it crashes...into an asteroid.

Gee, do you think that the asteroid they hit has some white paint on it from a previous encounter?

Rrrrr... You're damn right, Titanic! When I got to that point while reading Darsaber, I was pretty stunned. It was just so anti-climatic.

"That's it? That's fucking it?! It didn't even fire!! It didn't even get out of the Hoth System!! I read over 200 pages for this!! Fuck you, KJA!!"

I know KJA is pretty bad, but I didn't think he would resort to something as lame as that. And the Luke/Calista stuff was boring, too.

HBMC · Post by **HBMC** » 2002-08-13 04:11am

Raxmei wrote:What did they do after they saw AOTC and the Acclamators didn't fire their guns?

Oh! My God! It was horrible.

Now they claimed that because it wasn't seen, it suddenly didn't exist.

The bitching is really tiring, and is the kind've thing that burns you out as a Mod (I'm the VS forum Moderator at SB.com, for those who didn't know).

BYE

HBMC · Post by **HBMC** » 2002-08-13 04:16am

Going on the EU/KJA thread here:

I really liked Darksabre. I read it (and finished it) the day after I finished reading Children of the Jedi (or Star Wars: Snorefest as I call it).

It was so refreshing to have an adventure filled Star Wars book rather than a slow phylisophical nonsense book like Snorefest was.

Sure, KJA's "Super Weapon of the Week" syndrome is kind've annoying, but I don't mind.

I love the EU, even the bad ones (except Snorefest... I HATE that book).

BYE

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2002-08-13 01:38pm

I did like the action and how all of the warlords were killed and united, but the ending of both plots was a travesty. At least the SSD got to DO something...

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2002-08-13 07:11pm

HBMC wrote:
Raxmei wrote:What did they do after they saw AOTC and the Acclamators didn't fire their guns?
Oh! My God! It was horrible.

Now they claimed that because it wasn't seen, it suddenly didn't exist.

The bitching is really tiring, and is the kind've thing that burns you out as a Mod (I'm the VS forum Moderator at SB.com, for those who didn't know).

BYE

What?! The Acclamators don't exist? How can anyone claim that? We saw the clones boarding them while the Imperial March played, just before it cuts to Anakin and Padmé getting hitched.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2002-08-13 07:14pm

No, I think he just means the firepower stats from ICS, not the ships themselves.

Vapthorne · Post by **Vapthorne** » 2002-08-13 10:08pm

I think the worst cop-out for SW would be all the stupid heroic moments that made no normal sense. It's only purpose is to make the hero shine at the very expense of logic. This is quite evident in the prequels, such as Anakin destroying the Trade Federation. Why would he'd had gone to Naboo in the first place, if there was going to be some major battle, he would had just gotten in the way. That's one famous example, but I have two more favorites.

First, being the whole Queen Amidala being disguised as handmaiden Padme deal. It made some sense, but not enough, as she still placed herself in more dangerous positions (as an escort pilot in AotC). To me, the whole reason was to hook up Anakin and Amidala, but as a Queen she couldn't wander Tatoonie, and Lucas wanted Anakin's bride to have some noble blood; so an unconventional method had to be conjuered. It just smelled like the Hero-falls-in-love-with-the-Queen cliche.

But the best was the decision to raise Anakin. At the end of the TPM, Yoda stated that the council would allow Obi-Wan to train him. Obi-wan clearly stated that he would do it even w/o the council's approval, then a second later Yoda gives him the okay. Unless, Yoda had some incrediable veto power (which, might explain it), this is one rancid cop out.

Jack Lain · Post by **Jack Lain** » 2002-08-13 10:56pm

Vapthorne: I am not really sure I agree with you on this. I don't see those events as cop-outs so much as bad plot renders.

I mean, GL really HAS to show Anakin in the story and he has to be a great pilot, capable of doing things that others cannot. And while I might agree that the scenes are somewhat silly, they still show the type of people that Anakin is/will be and how Amidala is now. She is a risk taker and a leader. Not so hard to believe.

As for Anakin, well, yeah, it is silly, but then again - here we have this young kid who blatantly disregards orders and goes into the battle. Is it any wonder then that he disregards Obi-Wan or bends the truth - or thinks of ways around his orders in AOTC? The boy is an anti-authoritarian, he was a slave!
Now (for the really really cool part!!!) contrast that with his subservience to the Emperor and we suddenly understand just how powerful the Dark Side really is!!!

While I cannot give credit to the acting, I can give credit to the story. And as far as story goes, those scenes are not cop-out.

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2002-08-13 11:20pm

It's only purpose is to make the hero shine at the very expense of logic. This is quite evident in the prequels, such as Anakin destroying the Trade Federation. Why would he'd had gone to Naboo in the first place, if there was going to be some major battle, he would had just gotten in the way. That's one famous example, but I have two more favorites.

Anakin was no normal 9 year old.

First, being the whole Queen Amidala being disguised as handmaiden Padme deal. It made some sense, but not enough, as she still placed herself in more dangerous positions (as an escort pilot in AotC). To me, the whole reason was to hook up Anakin and Amidala, but as a Queen she couldn't wander Tatoonie, and Lucas wanted Anakin's bride to have some noble blood; so an unconventional method had to be conjuered. It just smelled like the Hero-falls-in-love-with-the-Queen cliche.

That wasn't an escort, it was an honor guard. And it worked, didn't it?

Second, the whole bodyguard switch wasn't primarily for her safety, it was so she could be among the commonfolk and be a better leader.

But the best was the decision to raise Anakin. At the end of the TPM, Yoda stated that the council would allow Obi-Wan to train him. Obi-wan clearly stated that he would do it even w/o the council's approval, then a second later Yoda gives him the okay. Unless, Yoda had some incrediable veto power (which, might explain it), this is one rancid cop out.

Yoda didn't go there to say no and then he changed his mind. Yoda said the council wasn't happy but they really couldn't stop Obi.

Vertigo1 · Post by **Vertigo1** » 2002-08-13 11:23pm

HBMC wrote:Going on the EU/KJA thread here:

I really liked Darksabre. I read it (and finished it) the day after I finished reading Children of the Jedi (or Star Wars: Snorefest as I call it).

It was so refreshing to have an adventure filled Star Wars book rather than a slow phylisophical nonsense book like Snorefest was.

Sure, KJA's "Super Weapon of the Week" syndrome is kind've annoying, but I don't mind.

I love the EU, even the bad ones (except Snorefest... I HATE that book).

BYE

You definitely won't like the NJO novel "Traitor" then.

Spoilers: (highlight to read)
The novel is essentially about Vergere showing Jacen (yes the little piss-ant is alive) a "new" way to look at the force. He also turns dark for a while and nearly kills Vergere by accident.

Vertigo1 · Post by **Vertigo1** » 2002-08-13 11:24pm

An edit function would be really nice.....

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-08-13 11:40pm

Not here, somthing you have to deal with as we've already had problems where people are editing in debates things they should not

Vertigo1 · Post by **Vertigo1** » 2002-08-13 11:46pm

Hmm...then maybe one of the mods could delete the post then?

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-08-13 11:49pm

*wriggles Fingers

Nope sorry GAT and David are unavaible please leave a message after the beep

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2002-08-14 12:07am

How hard would it be to have a "MEssage Edited at < insert time here, Date > " Message so that people editing mid debate wouldn't be an issue?

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2002-08-14 12:11am

You still don't know what they originally said unless someone quoted it.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2002-08-14 12:38am

I don't see why this "no edit" thing bugs so many people here. You can't edit your posts over at the Straight Dope Message Board, either. And you don't hear anybody bitching over there.

If you look over what you type before you submit, it shouldn't be a problem.

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

What Are The Worst ST/SW Cop-Outs?

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