DATA Vs Grand Admiral Thrawn vs Veers vs Spock playing risk
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BTW DATA would be able to count cards but it is obvious that when he plays he doesn't. He only cheated the Hotel cause it was already cheating, but cheating is cheating no matter what the motivations are.
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hmm. if data wants to win by perfect dicing, he can. . .which will degenerate into a fistfight. but he seems only to do that against cheating players. . .so thrawn will win.
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Walper, I was mildly amused at your shameless attempt to make Data win by simply having him cheat. But I was not particularly amused at the way you chose to defend it by arguing that it's not cheating to manipulate rolls of the dice.
This indicates a chickenshit weasel's attitude, Robert. I don't like thread hijackers, and even though this thread seems semi-facetious, I agree with others that you are obviously hijacking it. A "no cheating" rule obviously rules out manipulation of the dice outcomes since the entire pupose of the dice is to randomize game events, so you should stop being an asshole and get off it.
This indicates a chickenshit weasel's attitude, Robert. I don't like thread hijackers, and even though this thread seems semi-facetious, I agree with others that you are obviously hijacking it. A "no cheating" rule obviously rules out manipulation of the dice outcomes since the entire pupose of the dice is to randomize game events, so you should stop being an asshole and get off it.
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I wonder how Han Solo or Lando Calrissian would do in Risk. They're used to gambling and with dice and such, but no one else is besides Data. But it is established Data cannot roll the dice in his favor. And if it degenerates into a fistfight, Data would win anyway. LOL
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I would rather see them play a WWII sim.
We let Thrawn have Japan because he loves overly complex plans
Veer's is the Perfect Blitzkrieg Officer, so we give him Germany
Data can handle The U.S. & Britian
Spock is emotionless wo we let him take over the Russian's
We let Thrawn have Japan because he loves overly complex plans
Veer's is the Perfect Blitzkrieg Officer, so we give him Germany
Data can handle The U.S. & Britian
Spock is emotionless wo we let him take over the Russian's
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You should give Thrawn a REAL challenge and let him be either Italy or France.
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Now that's just not fair 90% of Thrawn's forces would surrender to the person they saw in a computer sim.IRG CommandoJoe wrote:You should give Thrawn a REAL challenge and let him be either Italy or France.
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Data always struck me as being too honest to cheat anyway.
I doubt it would degenerate into a fist fight. Look at three of the contestants - Data, Thrawn and Spock. Neither of these people are impulsive enough to engage in a fist fight like that. I'm not sure about Veers, but him being an imperial officer, I doubt he would fight either. In any case, veers would look stupid trying to have a fist fight by himself that he probably wouldn't try. Or Thrawn would execute him before he made a fool of himself.
But I'd go for Thrawn all the way. Mainly because he's a demigod, but also because he's better than the rest.[/quote]
I doubt it would degenerate into a fist fight. Look at three of the contestants - Data, Thrawn and Spock. Neither of these people are impulsive enough to engage in a fist fight like that. I'm not sure about Veers, but him being an imperial officer, I doubt he would fight either. In any case, veers would look stupid trying to have a fist fight by himself that he probably wouldn't try. Or Thrawn would execute him before he made a fool of himself.
But I'd go for Thrawn all the way. Mainly because he's a demigod, but also because he's better than the rest.[/quote]
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Excactally Data would be the best card counter in the universe but when he plays poker with the other officers he does not. The evidence of this is that Data does not win every game. Heck as a Engineer and math major I can count cards, that does not make it legal for me to do it. And I have never tried to intentionally roll higher number playing any board game, why cause its cheating and cheating takes the fun out of the game. And I have the computer version of the both Risk and Axis and Allies and I the game still turns out the same as if I had used the board game version so a electronic dice is the same as normal dice. If you want conplain that the ref has made a call to ensure the game is fair I'm sorry. I have never until now had somene question one of my judgment calls. In my junkyard wars the intention was for the teams to build a machine. Someone pointed out that the teams with Jedi's could get away with not building a vehicle so I made a call saying no force powers. No one questioned it.Singuler Quartet wrote:Walper, you forget, Data is highly moral. He wouldn't cheat because he wouldn't want to. Now will you shut up about it?
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THe Yosemite Bear wrote:Now that's just not fair 90% of Thrawn's forces would surrender to the person they saw in a computer sim.IRG CommandoJoe wrote:You should give Thrawn a REAL challenge and let him be either Italy or France.
Thawn could use that to his advantage, swamping the enemy with POW's while he used his remaining forces to exploit there overstrained logistic system, crushing it.
And you might want to change that 90% figure to 8%, when cut off in the desert without food or water for days on end or overrun by vastly superior armor forces.
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Did you even read my message!? I admitted I was wrong, I admittied that manipulating the dice is wrong! What more do you want? I made I mistake and I admitted it. What else can I do?Robert Walper wrote:(Yet another nauseating attempt to claim that dice manipulation is not cheating deleted. Robert, when I told you to get the fuck off it, I meant it- Darth Wong)
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[quote]I wonder how Han Solo or Lando Calrissian would do in Risk. They're used to gambling and with dice and such, but no one else is besides Data. But it is established Data cannot roll the dice in his favor. And if it degenerates into a fistfight, Data would win anyway. LOL[/quote]
If Data cheated, Han would shoot him. lol
If Data cheated, Han would shoot him. lol
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let it go. I hold no ill will. I think that you are a good person.Robert Walper wrote:Did you even read my message!? I admitted I was wrong, I admittied that manipulating the dice is wrong! What more do you want? I made I mistake and I admitted it. What else can I do?Robert Walper wrote:(Yet another nauseating attempt to claim that dice manipulation is not cheating deleted. Robert, when I told you to get the fuck off it, I meant it- Darth Wong)
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That was disapointing ..Should we show this Federation how to build a ship so we may have worthy foes? Typhonis 1
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That was disapointing ..Should we show this Federation how to build a ship so we may have worthy foes? Typhonis 1
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let it go. I hold no ill will. I think that you are a good person.Robert Walper wrote:Did you even read my message!? I admitted I was wrong, I admittied that manipulating the dice is wrong! What more do you want? I made I mistake and I admitted it. What else can I do?Robert Walper wrote:(Yet another nauseating attempt to claim that dice manipulation is not cheating deleted. Robert, when I told you to get the fuck off it, I meant it- Darth Wong)
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When you want peace prepare for war! --Confusious
That was disapointing ..Should we show this Federation how to build a ship so we may have worthy foes? Typhonis 1
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That was disapointing ..Should we show this Federation how to build a ship so we may have worthy foes? Typhonis 1
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Thanks for holding no ill will. I'm certainly not trying to be a dick about this. As far as I'm concerned, I have let the arguement go. What I want to know now is why Mr Wong deleted the message were I admitted I was wrong.Isolder74 wrote:let it go. I hold no ill will. I think that you are a good person.Robert Walper wrote:Did you even read my message!? I admitted I was wrong, I admittied that manipulating the dice is wrong! What more do you want? I made I mistake and I admitted it. What else can I do?Robert Walper wrote:(Yet another nauseating attempt to claim that dice manipulation is not cheating deleted. Robert, when I told you to get the fuck off it, I meant it- Darth Wong)
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BTW if you had argued that DATA could win because of his superior mind and the ability to extratolate his move 3-6 turns in advance than no one would have had a problem
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I would think that Admiral Thrawn and the others can also make basic predictions and plan several moves ahead. I don't see Data having any significant advantage in that area. Let's not forget, in one TNG episode, Troi beat Data in a game of chess. Obivously his strategic skills in board games isn't that impressive. I would think Chess is a good example game of stradegy, and involves no or little luck. I myself suck at Chess.Isolder74 wrote:BTW if you had argued that DATA could win because of his superior mind and the ability to extratolate his move 3-6 turns in advance than no one would have had a problem
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yes, but if Data is suppost to be more advanced the Deep Blue than he should have been able to beat Troi. Parhaps the writer of that episode didn't like computersRobert Walper wrote:I would think that Admiral Thrawn and the others can also make basic predictions and plan several moves ahead. I don't see Data having any significant advantage in that area. Let's not forget, in one TNG episode, Troi beat Data in a game of chess. Obivously his strategic skills in board games isn't that impressive. I would think Chess is a good example game of stradegy, and involves no or little luck. I myself suck at Chess.Isolder74 wrote:BTW if you had argued that DATA could win because of his superior mind and the ability to extratolate his move 3-6 turns in advance than no one would have had a problem
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That was disapointing ..Should we show this Federation how to build a ship so we may have worthy foes? Typhonis 1
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We have to remember that Deep Blue was built specifically for playing Chess, while Data in all probability was not. And we also cannot assume automatically that Data is more advanced than Deep Blue in regards to Chess. It would seem to me there is a couple of options:yes, but if Data is suppost to be more advanced the Deep Blue than he should have been able to beat Troi. Parhaps the writer of that episode didn't like computers
1) Data is no good at games. However, this seems questionable due to his success at playing betting games, like my hotel example, but he was cheating there. Data also did clean out expert poker players in 19th century Earth, so he can't be that bad of a player of games.
2) Data let Troi win. This also seems unlikely, since he expressed genuine surprise at losing, which would indicate either a honest loss or deception on his part.
3) Data was dealing with many mental tasks at the time, so wasn't 100% focused on the game. Certainly possible, but he was able to predict loss eight moves ahead of time. Strange, he couldn't see a way out of it, or predict other moves equally as well?
4) Troi is an exceptional Chess player. This certainly could be true, and many people today can beat our common computers at games of Chess because their Chess programming is limited. Perhaps this is the case with Data.
Of the four options I can think of, number 4 seems to most likely.
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Robert Walper wrote:We have to remember that Deep Blue was built specifically for playing Chess, while Data in all probability was not. And we also cannot assume automatically that Data is more advanced than Deep Blue in regards to Chess. It would seem to me there is a couple of options:yes, but if Data is suppost to be more advanced the Deep Blue than he should have been able to beat Troi. Parhaps the writer of that episode didn't like computers
1) Data is no good at games. However, this seems questionable due to his success at playing betting games, like my hotel example, but he was cheating there. Data also did clean out expert poker players in 19th century Earth, so he can't be that bad of a player of games.
2) Data let Troi win. This also seems unlikely, since he expressed genuine surprise at losing, which would indicate either a honest loss or deception on his part.
3) Data was dealing with many mental tasks at the time, so wasn't 100% focused on the game. Certainly possible, but he was able to predict loss eight moves ahead of time. Strange, he couldn't see a way out of it, or predict other moves equally as well?
4) Troi is an exceptional Chess player. This certainly could be true, and many people today can beat our common computers at games of Chess because their Chess programming is limited. Perhaps this is the case with Data.
you may right. But since there will be no distractions in this match he still will hold a good chance of winning
Of the four options I can think of, number 4 seems to most likely.
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In ST:TNG "The Royale", Data manipulated the dice to win a betting game.Singuler Quartet wrote:Walper, you forget, Data is highly moral. He wouldn't cheat because he wouldn't want to. Now will you shut up about it?
It has been firmly and aggressively established that manipulating dice to win is cheating.
Therefore, Data is not actually above cheating and will do so if he feels it is necessary. Noted that at the time, cheating was the lesser of two evils since it was the only way they could think of to get out of the hotel.
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I think we would have to first establish that Data is a good stradegist before claiming he would have a chance against someone like Thrawn who has been established as an excellent stradegist.you may right. But since there will be no distractions in this match he still will hold a good chance of winning