A Soverign-class starship vs. a single Z-95 Headhunter

[JodoForce]

Well it does according to XvT... but the shield was worth like 5 shots and the cockpit another 4 or 5... still a POS I'd take a plain TIE fighter over the Z-95 any day

[Col. Crackpot]

Well it does according to XvT... but the shield was worth like 5 shots and the cockpit another 4 or 5... still a POS I'd take a plain TIE fighter over the Z-95 any day

video games do not trump source books on the cannon scale. the z-95 headhunter does not have shields. if we went by the video game , in Tie Fighter, Vader had Tie Interceptors equipped with hyperdrives, do you want to open that can of worms?

[Oberleutnant]

Unless I'm badly mistaken, I believe it's possible to add hyperdrive to any TIE model.

[Lord of the Farce]

video games do not trump source books on the cannon scale. the z-95 headhunter does not have shields. if we went by the video game , in Tie Fighter, Vader had Tie Interceptors equipped with hyperdrives, do you want to open that can of worms?

Well apparently, WEG rates the Z-95 as having "Shields 1D" besides "Hull 4D".

[Col. Crackpot]

Name: Incom Z-95 Headhunter
Type: Starfighter
Length: 11.8 meters
Speed
WEG Hyperdrive: none
WEG Sublight: 7
LucasArts Sublight: 100 MGLT
ILM Sublight: N/A
Weapons (configurations vary)
2 Triple Blasters


The Z-95 was designed by Incom and Subpro to be a multipurpose fighter, like the later X-wing, but in a time of little conflict and specialized warships the market for the craft was limited. As a result, most Z-95s were sold to private organizations that needed combat-capable craft but not an actual military force. The Z-95 can be modified easily; many later configurations have features not found in the original such as missile launchers or a hyperdrive.

(Source: Rebel Alliance Sourcebook)

in it's original factory configuration the Z-95 had no missiles no hyperdrive and i'm still searching for online info about shields

[Col. Crackpot]

http://www.starwars.com/databank/starsh ... er/eu.html

Okey-dokey

the original z-95's did have hardpoints to carry concussion missiles
also, later on they were available with twin Krupx MG5 concussion missile launchers. and only later models had hyperdrive. Shileds varied from nothing to very light to "XoLyyn shielding"...whatever that means.

Z-95s are typically not equipped with hyperdrive engines, though famed Republic (and later Alliance) tactician Adar Tallon developed a variant -- the Z-95t -- which featured a class 3 hyperdrive, and increased maneuverability. Later Z-95s did feature an Incom Gbk-435 hyperdrive motivator, and a Narmox Zr-390 navicomputer system. Smuggler Alliance leader Mara Jade piloted a modified Z-95 with a hyperdrive before switching to larger, more practical craft.

The Z-95 Headhunter is notorious for being able to take brutal punishment before falling apart, though as starfighter weapon technology has progressed, Headhunter pilots would rather trust their flying than their armor and shields. Z-95s have respectable armor plating, but their shielding tends to be very light. Near the end of the product line, Z-95s could boast a titanium alloy hull and XoLyyn shielding.

Weapons systems vary among the different models, but most Z-95s are equipped with two wing-mounted triple-blasters, which are fire-linked. Another common weapon systems are a bank of concussion missiles. The dedicated missile platform Z-95s, of course, had increased payloads.

A common model featured twin Taim & Bak KX5 fire-linked laser cannons, and twin Krupx MG5 concussion missile launchers. These weapons are controlled through a Fabritech ANq 2.4 tracking computer and SI 5g8 "Quickscan" vector imaging system. Sensor systems include a Fabritech ANS-5c unit with long-range Phased Tachyon Detection Array #PA-9r and one short range Primary Threat Analysis Grid model #PG-7u.

so to have a debate first we have to classify what type of Z-95 we are dealing with. A standard model armed with only 2 triple blasters? is it carrying missiles on it hardpoints? is it carrying missile launchers? does it have a hyperdrive?

[Kerneth]

I don't think it matters. A lone Z-95, even fully kitted with shields, concussion missiles, and a hyperdrive, isn't going to blow up a Sovereign-class starship unless in very special circumstances--like, the Starfleet captain doesn't know the Z-95 is aggressive.

"Starfleet vessel, this is Z-95 Blue One requesting approach to your docking bay, I need to land this thing due to damaged engines."
"Blue One, approach vector transmitted, come on in."

*Z-95 moves into the approach vector, waits until Sovereign-class drops its shields, then starts dumping concussion missiles as fast as it can reload*

Now, admittedly, many Starfleet Captains might be willing to let a completely unknown vessel dock with them for repairs if the Z-95 pilot was a good enough actor, but still, it's not a fair vs debate if you assume the Z-95 pilot can sucker the Starfleet Captain into giving him a free shot.

[Solauren]

At least my "curses himself for using two many torpedoes joke" got one laugh

Okay, seriously now...

I think the Z-95 headhunter would probably do okay, until the tactical officer/gunner on the Soverign class figured out that because it's so small fast and maneuverable, fire several phasers at it at once in cover fire, so if it dodges, one of the phasers just changes course a litle and hits the Z-95, at which point the Z-95 would probably be toast.

I think the Soverign would probably take shield damage around 20 - 30%.

Also, is this a Soverign pre or post Voyager's return? Because I think the new Ablative Armor would stop starfighter weapons cold.

I mean, the Borg have fairly powerful weapons, and it was taking multiple shots (probably full power) once they adapted to take it down

[Sarevok]

I don't think it matters. A lone Z-95, even fully kitted with shields, concussion missiles, and a hyperdrive, isn't going to blow up a Sovereign-class starship unless in very special circumstances--like, the Starfleet captain doesn't know the Z-95 is aggressive.

"Starfleet vessel, this is Z-95 Blue One requesting approach to your docking bay, I need to land this thing due to damaged engines."
"Blue One, approach vector transmitted, come on in."

*Z-95 moves into the approach vector, waits until Sovereign-class drops its shields, then starts dumping concussion missiles as fast as it can reload*

Now, admittedly, many Starfleet Captains might be willing to let a completely unknown vessel dock with them for repairs if the Z-95 pilot was a good enough actor, but still, it's not a fair vs debate if you assume the Z-95 pilot can sucker the Starfleet Captain into giving him a free shot.

I agree. For one thing the Z-95 would not be able to avoid lightspeed phaser beams at typical combat ranges. It's shields are in the kiloton range whereas the sovergein's phaser is in tens of megaton range. Headhunter's ECM won't work against a sovergein as it uses a totaly different subspace based sensors. So sovergein would have 100% accruracy. The winner of this fight would be determined who shoots first. If the Z-95 can hit the sovergein with torpedoes it wins but if sovergein fires first it wins. Since the sovergein outrange's the headhunter by thousands of kilometers it's best bet would be to warp away and fire phasers from 100000 km away.

[SirNitram]

I agree. For one thing the Z-95 would not be able to avoid lightspeed phaser beams at typical combat ranges. It's shields are in the kiloton range whereas the sovergein's phaser is in tens of megaton range. Headhunter's ECM won't work against a sovergein as it uses a totaly different subspace based sensors. So sovergein would have 100% accruracy. The winner of this fight would be determined who shoots first. If the Z-95 can hit the sovergein with torpedoes it wins but if sovergein fires first it wins. Since the sovergein outrange's the headhunter by thousands of kilometers it's best bet would be to warp away and fire phasers from 100000 km away.

ROTFL!!!!!

Lightspeed Phasers? 100% Accuracy? 100's of thousands of kilometers range?

ROTFL!!!!!

[StimNeuro]

I agree. For one thing the Z-95 would not be able to avoid lightspeed phaser beams at typical combat ranges. It's shields are in the kiloton range whereas the sovergein's phaser is in tens of megaton range. Headhunter's ECM won't work against a sovergein as it uses a totaly different subspace based sensors. So sovergein would have 100% accruracy. The winner of this fight would be determined who shoots first. If the Z-95 can hit the sovergein with torpedoes it wins but if sovergein fires first it wins. Since the sovergein outrange's the headhunter by thousands of kilometers it's best bet would be to warp away and fire phasers from 100000 km away.

You were doing ok until you made that rediculous claim that a Sovereign has 100% accuracy against a target, let alone a target as small and maneuverable as a Z-95 at 100,000km. I suggest that you read on the main website about Star Trek accuracy.
Assuming this follows the standard guidelines for a ship vs ship fight(i.e. no running away, warping away is considered running,etc.), I believe that this fight would end in favor of the Sovereign for one simple reason: it has more fuel capacity. Since the Sovereign will most likely be sitting still, it will use a smaller percentage of its fuel that the Headhunter, which must constantly weaver through phaser fire. Once the Headhunter is out of fuel, the Sovereign will be able to close to a range where it is able to accurately hit the Z-95 and destroy it. Yes, this is a cheap way to declare a winner, but the other choice is a stalemate of the Sovereign unable to hurt the Z-95 and the Z-95 unable to hurt the Sovereign.

[Col. Crackpot]

I agree. For one thing the Z-95 would not be able to avoid lightspeed phaser beams at typical combat ranges.

phaser beams have been demonstrated time and time again to travel at far less the speed of light.

It's shields are in the kiloton range whereas the sovergein's phaser is in tens of megaton range.

you wanna back that up?

Headhunter's ECM won't work against a sovergein as it uses a totaly different subspace based sensors.

speculation backed by trecknobabble?

So sovergein would have 100% accruracy.

NO it doesn't! where in all of trek has a ship ever fired on a smaller more manuverable opponent and hit with 100% accuracy? nowhere!

The winner of this fight would be determined who shoots first. If the Z-95 can hit the sovergein with torpedoes it wins but if sovergein fires first it wins.

i don't think you can say that. first of all z-95's don't carry torps, they carry concussion missiles. and i don't know the low end yield for concussions of the top of my head (anyone?)

Since the sovergein outrange's the headhunter by thousands of kilometers it's best bet would be to warp away and fire phasers from 100000 km away.

used with flak fire from the torpedoes. a good strategy, the one i would use.

[Patrick Ogaard]

video games do not trump source books on the cannon scale. the z-95 headhunter does not have shields. if we went by the video game , in Tie Fighter, Vader had Tie Interceptors equipped with hyperdrives, do you want to open that can of worms?

Well apparently, WEG rates the Z-95 as having "Shields 1D" besides "Hull 4D".

There's always the first mention of the Z-95 Headhunter in print, from Han Solo at Stars' End. The craft in question were the old, first-generation models, with swing wings, twin engines, bubble canopies, two sets of triple blaster cannon, and external hardpoints for rockets and bomb pylons.

The relevant quote on shields: "The IRD's beams began to make hits, rocking the smaller Headhunter. Han came within range and still held his fire; he had a feeling about htis one. The IRD pilot might not even be sure about the old Z-95's reach, but Han suspected he knew what the man would do as soon as he returned fire. Riding the jolting Headhunter through the hail of incoming shots, he bided his time and hoped his shields would hold."


The Headhunter easily weathers long range fire from the CSA IRD fighters, but close range fire from either Headhunters or IRDs punches through the shields of the opposing fighters and quickly shreds the target craft.

[Lord Pounder]

There are actually 2 kinds of Z-95 IIRC. The mark one has no shields, hyperdrive, or warhead launcher. The Mark 2 Z95 however is more deadly. It still has no hyperdrive, though it can be added, but now it boasts 6 blaster cannons, 2 concussion missile launchers and improed armour and x-wing scale shields. It was a Z-95 Mk II the Corran Horn was flying when the Rebels took Coruscant.

[Darth Garden Gnome]

A hit will kill the Z-95, but it is *somewhat* maneuverable. More maneuverable than most ships an Sov fires on. Proximity torpedoes would be the best course of action for the Sov.

Victory for the Z-95 depends heavily on one factor: torpedoes. If it has fighter-scale bombs - the KT ones - the Sov laughs as the Z-95 bomb's are absorbed by their shields. If they have capship killer ones - in the GT range - the Sov is doomed.

Range is also an important factor. While in the SW books missles are used at extremeley close range because of the jamming most SW capships use. In cases where there isn't jamming (AOTC asteroid chase) the missles have a HUGE range. It has been my experience on the matter that ST ships do not jam. Nor would they be able to hit something as small, fast, and maneuvarable as an un-jammed torpedo.

So it really depends on the yield of the bomb. That said, it is unlikely that a civilian ship like the Z-95 would need, much less afford, capship killer torps.

Sov takes it.

[StimNeuro]

Only missile systems on a Z-95, at least acording to the Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessels, are Krupx MG5 concussion missile launchers. The Guide to Weapons and Technology lists the Krupz MG5 as a miniaturized launcher and specifically mentions the Z-95 as a vessel that often carries it. The Millenium Falcon has a pair of Arakyd ST2 concussion missile launchers. These missiles are reported by the SWEG:W&T to be the same strength as a standard Proton Torpedo. In the end, this means that the conussion missiles used on the Z-95 are weaker than those shown in Return of the Jedi, and are unlikely to be the GT level Cap-Killers.

[Drooling Iguana]

the Z-95 doesn't have shields according to the rebel alliance sourcebook...and IIRC doesn't have a warhead launcher.

It has shields according to TIE-Fighter, but I guess the sourcebooks are on a higher level of canon than the video games. Anyway, I guess I over-estimated Republic/Imperial tech this time. Sorry.

[SPOOFE]

Victory for the Z-95 depends heavily on one factor: torpedoes. If it has fighter-scale bombs - the KT ones - the Sov laughs as the Z-95 bomb's are absorbed by their shields. If they have capship killer ones - in the GT range - the Sov is doomed.

That's pretty much how it goes for any SW fighter vs. capship encounter. If the Z-95 is armed for bear, it just needs a teensy bit of luck and a good shot. There's always the chance that the Sovvie could shoot it down before delivering its payload, however. I think the argument should be one of consistency.

I think the fairest fight would be, if the Z-95 gets foreknowledge about its target, then the Sovvie does, too. If they know that they've got this tiny ship coming at them with a one-shot, one-kill warhead, they'd most likely be able to set up a counter. I mean, c'mon, this is a friggin' Z-95.

[Alyeska]

The Sovereign wonders what the minor nuicance is and swats the Z-95 asside with ease.

Come on people, this debate is absurd. A squadron of Z-95s couldn't even kill a Sovereign.

[SPOOFE]

They COULD, Alyeska - that is, it's within the realm of possibility - they just most likely won't.

[Darth Garden Gnome]

The Sovereign wonders what the minor nuicance is and swats the Z-95 asside with ease.

Come on people, this debate is absurd. A squadron of Z-95s couldn't even kill a Sovereign.

Again, it really depends on the Z-95's torpedo loadout. Although capship killers are apparently out of the question, lower yield torps (like Jango's - 190 MT) would be able to if all the missles were fired in rapid succesion at one spot.

Of course, comparing weapons is one thing. More realistically, a Z-95 would be shot down quickly, either with a proximity torpedo (most likely, considering that even a outdated civilian model ship still moves faster than any target I've ever witnessed a Sov engage), or a precise phaser blast or two.

[Col. Crackpot]

honestly my gut tells me that a squadron would bloody the nose of a soverign before being wiped out. her advantage would be her warp drive and a competent captain. although some type of englobement by the z-95s could be quite effective. in the end i have to side with the ship equipped with FTL drives. also, the rate of torpedo fire of a soverign can be quite impressive. the e-e pissed through it's entire loadout of a few hundred in a couple of minutes in Nemesis. even if they are only in the high kiloton range, z-95's have kiloton level shielding at best and no shielding at worst. On the other hand, more than likely several concussion missiles will get past supressing fire and warp avoidance manuvers. However with a Nemesis type sovereign with it's actual real shielding , it may stand a few hits....it did take dozens of romulan torp hits and dozens more disrupter hits in nemesis....If those hits pile up and several z-95's score multiple hits before being destroyrd the Bragga Industrial Warp-core-omatic[i] TM might decide to act up.[/i]

[Alyeska]

Not to mention the Sovereign class has regernative shielding that can regenerate rather quickly. More then once the Enterprise's shields were almost knocked out yet a minute later that section of shielding was back to normal.

[Col. Crackpot]

Not to mention the Sovereign class has regernative shielding that can regenerate rather quickly. More then once the Enterprise's shields were almost knocked out yet a minute later that section of shielding was back to normal.

i noticed also that they are hull conforming shields and seem to be divided into at least 6 sections, a hell of a lot more practical than those damn foolish bubble shields.

[Shroom Man 777]

What about a squad of Xwings vs. the Sovereign?