29th Century Federation vs Empire in ROTJ

[acesand8s]

I haven't seen the Voyager episodes with the 29th century Feds in a while, so my recollection of the events is vauge, but...

IIRC, the shuttle fired at only Voyager. Is it possible that the Aeon's weapons and shields were configured specifically against Voyager? The 29th century Federation should have full records of the vessel and we've seen similar phase and frequency tricks before.

On the other side of the argument, the 29th c. Feds could use time travel in a tactical aspect. For example, after the Empire finds the wormhole to the Milky Way, we all agree that they would garrison it quite heavily; it is, after all, the perfect choke-point. If the Feds set up a probe to watch the wormhole defenses, they would eventually find period of time where the defenses are weak. They could send their fleet to that point in time and possibly break through to the Star Wars galaxy. Unless the standards of the Federation have been radically altered, they wouldn't destroy planets or star systems, but contact with the Rebellion now becomes plausible. This would create a two-front war for the Empire.

If the Empire finishes the Death Star, however, the cause will be lost. After all, the Imperials would probably have a difficult time destroying a fully operation Death Star.

[Admiral Johnason]

I haven't seen the Voyager episodes with the 29th century Feds in a while, so my recollection of the events is vauge, but...

IIRC, the shuttle fired at only Voyager. Is it possible that the Aeon's weapons and shields were configured specifically against Voyager? The 29th century Federation should have full records of the vessel and we've seen similar phase and frequency tricks before.

On the other side of the argument, the 29th c. Feds could use time travel in a tactical aspect. For example, after the Empire finds the wormhole to the Milky Way, we all agree that they would garrison it quite heavily; it is, after all, the perfect choke-point. If the Feds set up a probe to watch the wormhole defenses, they would eventually find period of time where the defenses are weak. They could send their fleet to that point in time and possibly break through to the Star Wars galaxy. Unless the standards of the Federation have been radically altered, they wouldn't destroy planets or star systems, but contact with the Rebellion now becomes plausible. This would create a two-front war for the Empire.

If the Empire finishes the Death Star, however, the cause will be lost. After all, the Imperials would probably have a difficult time destroying a fully operation Death Star.

At the weakest, the wormhole would be defened by some 20 star destroyers, as it was a moderately important area. Also, many smaller ships would be in the area along with mobile bases and a command ship.

[Solauren]

JUST 20 Star Destroyers?

If I was the Emperor, and was told we'd found a wormhole to another galaxy, I'd move the equal of an entire sector fleet there immediately to hold it while I had the Rebel alliance mericlessly hunted down and killed (How long would the rebel fleet stay hidden with a 10 BILLION credit bounty on it's location, and 20 billion for it's confirmed destruction). I'd also have several of the Super/Executor Class starships moved there while I had the Eclipse (believed to have been stared arount ESB, stopped after Return of the Jedi, restarted around the same time Thrawn became known to the New Republic, completed 8 or so months later) and it's sister ships rushed completed.

Then I'd go nuts on them

[Admiral Johnason]

JUST 20 Star Destroyers?

If I was the Emperor, and was told we'd found a wormhole to another galaxy, I'd move the equal of an entire sector fleet there immediately to hold it while I had the Rebel alliance mericlessly hunted down and killed (How long would the rebel fleet stay hidden with a 10 BILLION credit bounty on it's location, and 20 billion for it's confirmed destruction). I'd also have several of the Super/Executor Class starships moved there while I had the Eclipse (believed to have been stared arount ESB, stopped after Return of the Jedi, restarted around the same time Thrawn became known to the New Republic, completed 8 or so months later) and it's sister ships rushed completed.

Then I'd go nuts on them

20 are enough. Do you have any idea on the reaction that htis would bring to the Emperor? You don't send a quarter of your fleet to a place the is unstable. You clearly have no idea on how much destruction one star destroyer can dish out. Besides, the Federation is a weaker enemy technologically and militarly. Also, do you think there were hundreds of super command ships during the time of the Battle of Endor?! Most of them weren't designed till much later and there have only been 10 SSDs, most of the built after the 1st death of the Emperor.

[Sarevok]

You could make starfleet 100 times more powerful and they'd still get stomped by the empire.

Yes they would be but it would be considerably more difficult for the Empire. But what if they are more powerful than that ? They may be far more powerful than we think, perhaps even stronger than the Empire or they may not be. There just is not enough evidence to support either assumption.

An imperial fighter (the sun crusher) can destroy star systems. Deliberately, and not by freak accidents.

The suncrusher used quantum resonence torpedoes to induce a supernovae. This is much like a star trek trilithium torpedo. They are chain reaction weopens since they need to induce the chain reaction in a star to unleash the energy of a supernovae.

Aeon was different. When Aeon piloted by Sterling entered realspace in earth orbit in the 29 th century, the ships temporal drive detonated causing a cataclysmic explosion that destroyed the entire solar system. This is an absurdly high amount of energy, not even a fleet of death stars could do this. To create a explosion so powerful that it annihalates all the planets and the star itself is a feat impossible to achieve even for the Empire. Only the Culture from Iain M. Bank's books can hope to match this feat.

This shows the 29 th century federations ability to generate enough energy to destroy not only stardestroyers but SSDs, Death Stars and even entire imperial star systems. Of course the Aeon incident was a case of system malfuction and not delibarete weopen fire. But the fact that a shuttle craft can be detonated to generate this insane amount of energy shows that 29 th federation power generation is superior to imperial technology.

The 29 th century federation also has some powerful special weopens. Consider the Relativities transporter that can beam through shields of a ship thousands of lightyears away and hundreds years into the past. How could the Empire which no temporal shielding or any temporal technology can hope to stop such a device ? What about a temporal disruptor which wipes out an ship from the timeline ? Without temporal shielding stardestroyers would fall easy pray to such a weopen. In the end even if the Aeon incident was an anamoly and the 29 th century federation can not stand up to the Empire the special weopens alone could turn the tide of the battle.

[Solauren]

JUST 20 Star Destroyers?

If I was the Emperor, and was told we'd found a wormhole to another galaxy, I'd move the equal of an entire sector fleet there immediately to hold it while I had the Rebel alliance mericlessly hunted down and killed (How long would the rebel fleet stay hidden with a 10 BILLION credit bounty on it's location, and 20 billion for it's confirmed destruction). I'd also have several of the Super/Executor Class starships moved there while I had the Eclipse (believed to have been stared arount ESB, stopped after Return of the Jedi, restarted around the same time Thrawn became known to the New Republic, completed 8 or so months later) and it's sister ships rushed completed.

Then I'd go nuts on them

20 are enough. Do you have any idea on the reaction that htis would bring to the Emperor? You don't send a quarter of your fleet to a place the is unstable. You clearly have no idea on how much destruction one star destroyer can dish out. Besides, the Federation is a weaker enemy technologically and militarly. Also, do you think there were hundreds of super command ships during the time of the Battle of Endor?! Most of them weren't designed till much later and there have only been 10 SSDs, most of the built after the 1st death of the Emperor.

First, I am fully aware of the power of a Star Destroyer. Put one over a planet, go away for a few hours, come back and the planet is a big slag heap. (that sums it up)

Second, if the Emperor had no idea what was on the other side of the wormhole, wouldn't it be smart to put a big ass garisson there? Just in case someone else finds the wormhole with there own big ass fleet or working Death Star?

Third, I know of 6 Executor class ships that had been built before Endor.

They are, plus source...

Executor --- The Movies
Luskanya --- Novel: X-Wing: Isard’s Revenge.
Terror --- Rebel Assault 2 Video Game
Guardian --- SW RPG: Wanted by Cracken, later in the novels
Vengance --- X-Wing vs Tie Fighter, Balance of Power
Reaper --- First mentioned in either “The SW Encyclopedia.” [Page 227] and “SW Adventure Journal.”, shortly after the Battle of Endor, so it was either built or nearly built

There are also 3 more POSSIBLE Super Star Destroyers that were underconstruction when Executor 'went public'. However, they might have become any of the ones after Luskanya in the list (which was built at the same time as Executor)

Also, we have no idea when Super Star Destroyer Iron Fist was built (used by Zsinj). he might have had it when he broke off from the ruling council shortly after the Battle of Endor

Also, Admiral Griel's ship during the Teezl incident could have been a partially finished SUper Star Destroyer (douptful) or variant

Finally, we have no idea how long Lord Jerec had his big ship he called 'Vengance' (which was bigger then a standard Super Star)

I think the Emperor could have spared a Super Star Destroyer to guard a wormhole.

Also, we don't know the status of the Sovereign Class ships at the time of the Battle of Endor. For all we know, they could have been 80% completed and then just mothballed until his 'return' before Dark Empire.
The same with the Eclipse ships

Just a thought

[acesand8s]

Aeon was different. When Aeon piloted by Sterling entered realspace in earth orbit in the 29 th century, the ships temporal drive detonated causing a cataclysmic explosion that destroyed the entire solar system. This is an absurdly high amount of energy, not even a fleet of death stars could do this. To create a explosion so powerful that it annihalates all the planets and the star itself is a feat impossible to achieve even for the Empire. Only the Culture from Iain M. Bank's books can hope to match this feat.

There's no proof that it was brute force that caused the destruction of the solar system IIRC. It could have been [insert treknobable] that caused the sun to go nova or something.

[HRogge]

There's no proof that it was brute force that caused the destruction of the solar system IIRC. It could have been [insert treknobable] that caused the sun to go nova or something.

Or maybe just one of those "space-time" explosions ST has...

[Solauren]

Aeon was different. When Aeon piloted by Sterling entered realspace in earth orbit in the 29 th century, the ships temporal drive detonated causing a cataclysmic explosion that destroyed the entire solar system. This is an absurdly high amount of energy, not even a fleet of death stars could do this. To create a explosion so powerful that it annihalates all the planets and the star itself is a feat impossible to achieve even for the Empire. Only the Culture from Iain M. Bank's books can hope to match this feat.

WTF? Excuse me, have you ever heard of this little, tiny, starfighter called the SUN CRUSHER? That one with the missiles that made all the stars it was fired into (ranging from Blue Super Giants to Red Dwarfs, and at least one "earth's sun" type star) go Supernova.

I don't know about you, but I think a Blue Supergiant going 'boom' is more then enough to annilate a star system.

Also, we don't know what level of damage the Aeon going 'boom' did in that timeline. It could have just been a funky shockwave that 'erased' the system from time from that point onwards (the opposite of the Krenium temporal incursion weapon) to the star system getting sucked into a black hole made by the ship or something

[TurboPhaser]

Ahem, I dont think it was said or even hinted at that the Aeon ended up anywhere near the sun when it blew. The impression I got from the first time I watched it was that it was just thrown out at some point in the Solar System. And when the USS Voyager was chasing the time ship at the end of the episode, the temporal travel thing was no where near the sun. It was near Earth.

There is no reason to think the location of the time travel thing would change in the target century, the 29th century.

The ship woulda ended up (if it hadnt been destroyed by a photon torpedo) in the same spot it left, just in a different time.

So I dont think it was a chain-reaction. And it was never said it was a temporal explosion, which is odd because Voyager throws temporal stuff around all the time.

[YT300000]

Third, I know of 6 Executor class ships that had been built before Endor.

They are, plus source...

Executor --- The Movies
Luskanya --- Novel: X-Wing: Isard’s Revenge.
Terror --- Rebel Assault 2 Video Game
Guardian --- SW RPG: Wanted by Cracken, later in the novels
Vengance --- X-Wing vs Tie Fighter, Balance of Power
Reaper --- First mentioned in either “The SW Encyclopedia.” [Page 227] and “SW Adventure Journal.”, shortly after the Battle of Endor, so it was either built or nearly built.

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/ssdlist.html

[Kurgan]

I thought I posted this already in this or a near identical topic, but anyway, we've seen a 29th century hand phaser disintegrate a circa-1996 pickup truck in a 1-2 second continuous beam.

Their timetravel technology (timeships) also seems much more reliable than the previous "slingshot effect" and "transporter accident" incursions.

Of course, we haven't seen them travel back in time more than 500 years (the 30th century Federation of course could go almost 900 years, but that's another story).

[SirNitram]

There's no proof that it was brute force that caused the destruction of the solar system IIRC. It could have been [insert treknobable] that caused the sun to go nova or something.

Or maybe just one of those "space-time" explosions ST has...

Because brute force can't induce a Nova.

[jegs2]

You have no idea if they would win or not. There is to little information about the 29th century Federation to make any concrete conclussions.

I agree with that.

[HRogge]

Or maybe just one of those "space-time" explosions ST has...

Because brute force can't induce a Nova.

Exactly.

[Vexx]

Assuming their ships can travel through space or time but not both simultaneously, that shuttle had to have been in the Delta quadrant in he 29th century. So it's reasonable to assume they either control territory out there or they can get out there more easily than a 24th century Federation starship could.

There's actually an interesting factoid in there.

Voyager is transported from the Delta quadrant to earth, in the 20th century. At the end of the episode they're taken back to the Delta Quadrant and their own time. It would seem the two are connected. At the very least it would hint that space travel in the 29th century is rather fast, given that it was an instantaneous movement to Earth from the Delta Quadrant and that they would need to be brought back within a reasonable frame of time.

Also that one episode where Voyager is destroyed and future Kim and future Chakotay go back, chased all the way by a GCS. It atleast suggests that Starfleet has a permanent presence at most within a couple thousand lightyears distance. And that's only a few years after the 2470s. So a galaxy-wide 29th century Federation doesn't seem quite as implausible, particularly a galaxy-wide 29th century Federation with the ability to rapidly transport from one place to the other.

[YT300000]

Thread necromancy.