DSII in UFP

[darthdavid]

*1 medium turbolaser hits the enterprise while it's trying to blow the death star, the trek ship blows to bits*

[StarshipTitanic]

*1 medium turbolaser hits the enterprise while it's trying to blow the death star, the trek ship blows to bits*

*The Romulan at the controls laughs, then returns to working on the moon-sized cloaking device*

[Solauren]

The Death Star 2, at it was over endor, without crew, in standby, suddenly appears in the middle of UFP space.

Can we say MASSIVE COVER STORY by Section 31?

I think Section 31 would do whatever they needed to in order to get there hands on it.

Assuming that when the Emperor said "Fully armed and operational" that meant everything was ready to go, just they needed to add some more hull and troop quarters, that would include the Hyperdrive, and maybe a shield generator. (Reason it wasn't raised during the Battle of Endor: time to power up), if Section 31 got lucky and found a way to raise the shields, I'd say most of the UFP's diplomatic problems just disappeared...

Along with Romulus, The Borg, Cardassia, the Dominion, and a few other races.....

Either that, or Wesley Crusher would see it, smile, and go on a rampage....

I mean, come on, that guy has to be up to something

[Ender]

The IG-88 story directly contradicts canon. KJA gives IG a body that is not what we see (EG presence of fingers when the bot on film had clips, not 5 digits)

So it can be tossed out.

[StarshipTitanic]

That's a pretty flimsy reason. Toss it out anyway.

[HRogge]

They'd blow it up. Picard or some other goody-goody-two-shoe would argue that they are not ready for such power, absolute corruption etc., and Starfleet would have it destroyed. Or if Starfleet refused, Picard would trash it himself and earn some commendation when the Federation "came to their senses."

Picard: Fire ALL photon torpedos on this monster, maximum yield !

Worf: Nothing happened.

Picard: What do you mean ?

Worf: We damaged some of the surface structures slightly...

Data: According to my calculation it would need another 23827592 photon torpedos to destroy this spacestation


What have we learned ? Destroying something like a DS is not easy if you don't know what you are doing...

[Darth Fanboy]

some more hull and troop quarters, that would include the Hyperdrive, and maybe a shield generator. (Reason it wasn't raised during the Battle of Endor: time to power up), if Section 31 got lucky and found a way to raise the shields, I'd say most of the UFP's diplomatic problems just disappeared...

Excuse me? The Shield was Up, it was coming from the shield generator base on Endor (or more correctly, the Forest Moon) And it WAS UP at the initial time of the Rebel Attack. Or have you not watched Return of the Jedi.

So in essence, the only shield technology found will be on any goodies left inside the Death Star. Not that the Feds coulddestroy it anyway short of pushing it into a star. Which may not be good for that solar system should it be inhabited.

[TurboPhaser]

Suppose the second Death Star somehow ended up in the United Federation of Planets...unfinished, no imperial personell, but fully functional and intact tech...would Starfleet be able to finish construction, and if so, how long?

They would most likely conclude that a planet busting super-terror weapon is a violation of god only knows how many peace treaties, a threat to galactic peace and that it would be unethical to keep the DS in working order. They would then deactivate and dismantle the DS and start working on reverse engineering the technology. Of course they would work out some form cooperation deal with the Romulans and Klingons and share some of the technology, so that they do not feel threatened by the new weapons technology UFP has gained (could lead to war).

If the dear old Feds were equipped with SW technology, it would be a very short war.

Honestly, neither the Klingons nor Romulans would be stupid enough to attack them if they knew of the full capabilities of the technology.

[StarshipTitanic]

What have we learned ? Destroying something like a DS is not easy if you don't know what you are doing...

Well it shouldn't puzzle them too much. Once they find the reactor they'd probably try blowing it up.

[HRogge]

What have we learned ? Destroying something like a DS is not easy if you don't know what you are doing...

Well it shouldn't puzzle them too much. Once they find the reactor they'd probably try blowing it up.

Exactly... and if the reactor is switched off all they can do is saying "look, we have a new moon !"

[YT300000]

another 23827592 photon torpedos to destroy this spacestation

You are off by a few hundred magnitudes.

[Solauren]

some more hull and troop quarters, that would include the Hyperdrive, and maybe a shield generator. (Reason it wasn't raised during the Battle of Endor: time to power up), if Section 31 got lucky and found a way to raise the shields, I'd say most of the UFP's diplomatic problems just disappeared...

Excuse me? The Shield was Up, it was coming from the shield generator base on Endor (or more correctly, the Forest Moon) And it WAS UP at the initial time of the Rebel Attack. Or have you not watched Return of the Jedi.

So in essence, the only shield technology found will be on any goodies left inside the Death Star. Not that the Feds coulddestroy it anyway short of pushing it into a star. Which may not be good for that solar system should it be inhabited.

I was referring to the Shield Generation system that was probably also installed on the Death Star in addition to the Endor Generator. You don't really believe the Emperor would trust protecting the Death Star to 1 shield generator that the rebels could blow up with a suicide attack (sure, it's out of character, but parania is the backbone of security).

I mean, after the Rebel fleet was smashed, would the Emperor want to wait around while a shield generator was installed on the Death Star to prevent capital ship and Starfighter attacks? I think not.

However, it's debatable if the DS2 had shield generators installed and ready to use.

Just saying, that's the first thing I'd look for
"First raise the shields to keep others out, then find the engines and targetting systems, and go pay a few hostile aliens a visit"

[StarshipTitanic]

What have we learned ? Destroying something like a DS is not easy if you don't know what you are doing...

Well it shouldn't puzzle them too much. Once they find the reactor they'd probably try blowing it up.

Exactly... and if the reactor is switched off all they can do is saying "look, we have a new moon !"

But they wouldn't have to blow it up then because it'd be unpowered.

[Darth Fanboy]

snip

I love how you just walk onto this completely alien space station and automatically ssume you can just track down shields, turn them on, and prevent enemy attacks. NEWSFLASH you are on a completely barren alien space station, you don't knw what the hell anything does, and ,ore than liekyl you will trip a security alarm before you find anything resembling a shield generator.

As for wether or not the Emperor would have the Death Star wait around Endor after the Rebel Fleet was smshed OF COURSE HE WOULD!

Why? The Fucking thing wasn't finished yet.

Assuming he still wanted to take it out for a spin though would it even matter? HAd the Rebel Fleet been wiped out at Endor then there would be NO capital ship force that could oppose him, even if there was the Combination of Star Destroyer escort and Superlaser would bemore than sufficient, shields wouldnt be needed. Wanted probably, needed no save for standard naviagation.

[jegs2]

Foreign intelligence services from the Klingons, Romulans, etc. would soon get wind of the existence of the massive and alien battlestation, and spies of every shape and form would inflitrate onto the station and whereever research on it was being conducted and stored. If they learned of even a fraction of the capabilites of the DSII, that would possibly generate panic on their part, possibly spurning an attack by them on the Federation.

[HRogge]

another 23827592 photon torpedos to destroy this spacestation

You are off by a few hundred magnitudes.

Would not be the first time data says somehting absolutely useless AND stupid...

[Darth Fanboy]

Foreign intelligence services from the Klingons, Romulans, etc. would soon get wind of the existence of the massive and alien battlestation, and spies of every shape and form would inflitrate onto the station and whereever research on it was being conducted and stored. If they learned of even a fraction of the capabilites of the DSII, that would possibly generate panic on their part, possibly spurning an attack by them on the Federation.

A little extreme considering the weakened state of the Romulan Star Empire and the post TNG era of retarded Klingons.

An alien space station would go uncared by the Rommies and Forehead Wrinkles. Things like the Dyson SPhere so far havent provoked war. They don't know and have no way of knowing about the potential for disaster with that thing.

[Solauren]

snip

I love how you just walk onto this completely alien space station and automatically ssume you can just track down shields, turn them on, and prevent enemy attacks. NEWSFLASH you are on a completely barren alien space station, you don't knw what the hell anything does, and ,ore than liekyl you will trip a security alarm before you find anything resembling a shield generator.

I never said it would be easy to find the shield generator (again, if the Death Star had any at that point. To me, having a major battle like the Battle of Endor without backup shields on the massively expensive 'bait' is foolish). I just meant that should be top priority.

[Iceberg]

The Federation would send a science team to study it. It would promptly disappear into the giant black hole which consumes all fantastic discoveries that Federation science teams are sent to study.

So it disappears into the same government warehouse that they're keeping the Roswell saucer and the Ark of the Covenant, then?

[Lord Pounder]

You guys all seem to be forgetting one wee thing. The feddies could never understand the workings of the DS. If i was an alien and I parked my space ship in the middle of the Kenedy Space Centre NASA there are very unlikely to be able to understand the ship. For a start the language and written form of the Empires basic is very unlikely to be reconised by the Federation Universal Translators.

[Darth Fanboy]

I never said it would be easy to find the shield generator (again, if the Death Star had any at that point. To me, having a major battle like the Battle of Endor without backup shields on the massively expensive 'bait' is foolish). I just meant that should be top priority.

Are you not listening to the words I am saying

-The feds dont even KNOW if it has shields or not, you can't go in and actively seek for something you don't even know is there.

- the most important thingabout the Death Star is the SUperlaser and Not the shields, and the DSII for its contruction did have a shield On endor. It wasn't finished, if they did have shields working ont he Death Star they wouldn'thave used thebase at Endor, you're just trying to salvage a point you've already lost. If they did have a backup shield on Endor they didn't have time to use it before the fighters got through the superstructure because said fighters did getthrough tthe superstructure.

[Solauren]

Snip x2.

Are you not listening to the words I am saying

Actually I am. Perhaps I am not making myself clear

-The feds dont even KNOW if it has shields or not, you can't go in and actively seek for something you don't even know is there.

If you found a big ass structure like that floating in space, wouldn't you check to see if it had shield generation capacity, so if anyone else came along, you could keep them out?

- the most important thingabout the Death Star is the SUperlaser and Not the shields, and the DSII for its contruction did have a shield On endor. It wasn't finished, if they did have shields working ont he Death Star they wouldn'thave used thebase at Endor, you're just trying to salvage a point you've already lost.

No arguing the importance of the Superlaser over the shields. Just the possiblity that it had shield generators onboard instead just on Endor.

Consider this. What would the likely hood of taking out the shields of the Death Star if the generator was on the Death Star itself? This isn't the Tarkin, it's full Death Star. Meaning shit loads of troops. Also, since this is the 'new and improved' Death Star, given the problems they had with security before, it's probably been beefed up.

The 2nd Death Star was a trap, right? When you bait a trap, you don't make it obvious suicide. So, give them something that isn't nessacarily suicide. i.e A Bunker you could level with explosives.

Trying to get a commando team on the Death Star would have been suicide, the Emperor knew that. So if there was shield generation capacity on the Death Star, they would not have used it until they had to. The whole idea was to get the rebels out of hiding.

If they did have a backup shield on Endor they didn't have time to use it before the fighters got through the superstructure because said fighters did getthrough tthe superstructure.

I agree 100%. I even said that they didn't get a chance to use it.

Anyway, we are arguing over a point of possiblity. To me, the battle of endor goes from brillant trap that backfired over stupidity, to idiocy without a second shield as a 'just in case'.
The Death Star would be without a shield. The shield was the key to the trap. Shield stays up, Death Star kills the rebel fleet.

i.e
Instead of the sabotauge team, the rebels suspect a trap and send in a shuttle flown by droids with a powerful warhead/bomb, take out the shield generator that way.

All it would take at that point is one A-Wing armed with the right missiles with all power to engines to race through or around any fighter blockade, into the Death Star, and blow the reactor.

Since the Emperor was known to listen to suggestions on occasion, ya think someone might have said 'ya know your highness, this is brillant plan, but what if the rebels do something intelligent and send a kamikasi ship or attack to take out the shield generator on Endor. It might be a good idea to have one on the Death Star just in case'.

That makes sense. Hell, the whole Imperial trap at Endor makes sense.

Anyway, since we have no way of knowing either way, I'll close the arguement.

Your right the Superlaser is more important. And there probably isn't a shield generator on the Death Star that was indepenant of Endor. We don't know, and I know of no offical documentation that says there was one.

I'm just saying that it would be a good idea if they found the Death Star to see if they could find a shield generator and turn it on.

After all, they'll probably thing the Death Star superlaser 'eye' is a big shield generator when they see it, and not a planet destroyer.

It does bare a resemblance (mild one) to the shield emitors on NCC-1701 ya know.

Just a thought about what they'd do if they found it.

Not a back down either. If you want to continue debating weither or not DS2 had shield generation capacity, let's take it to the pure star wars section and start a thread there. PM me if you do incase I don't check there in the near future

[Darth Fanboy]

If you found a big ass structure like that floating in space, wouldn't you check to see if it had shield generation capacity, so if anyone else came along, you could keep them out?

Why would you feel this need to keep things out right off the bat? You are going in without any knowledge of this station and you keep making these damned assumptions based on what prior knowledge of the Deather Star you have.

Fed Ship sees Death Star a.k.a large floating object in space they have never seen before and have no knowledge of, sensorss (if they work) would show areas where humans can breathe and beam over a away team. Scientists go to work leanring what they can. They don;t know what it is, or if there is a shield or if theres a big ass planet killing laser, they don't know! When the Federation found the Dyson SPhere, did they immediately look for shield generators? When, in any encounters the Federation has had with unknown derelict objects in space and there have been a lot of them, have they started out actively looking for shield generators. Never

Consider this. What would the likely hood of taking out the shields of the Death Star if the generator was on the Death Star itself? This isn't the Tarkin, it's full Death Star. Meaning shit loads of troops. Also, since this is the 'new and improved' Death Star, given the problems they had with security before, it's probably been beefed up.

The 2nd Death Star was a trap, right? When you bait a trap, you don't make it obvious suicide. So, give them something that isn't nessacarily suicide. i.e A Bunker you could level with explosives.

Trying to get a commando team on the Death Star would have been suicide, the Emperor knew that. So if there was shield generation capacity on the Death Star, they would not have used it until they had to. The whole idea was to get the rebels out of hiding.

God I can;t beleive I have to explain this but, if the Death Star Had working shields already on the seath star, then why a shield generator on Endor? And if those shields werent up as you suggest, then why weren't they raised after the shield was destroyed on Endor.

ANd for gods sake watch the damn movies. In RoTJ, the Emperors Trap was to:

A) Lure Rebel Forces into a trap on the Forest Moon, the shuttle carrying the commandos, which was allowed through by the Emperor even though he knew its presence, went down to the surface and was eventually trapped.

B) Allow the shuttle trhough so that the Rebel Fleet would not be scared off.

C) When the Rebel Fleet arrives, Jam transmissions so they think the Deaht star isnt functional, when the rebel fleets close in the Imperial Fleet led by Executor was to strike as well as the Death Star Superlaser.

Also remember that technical readouts of the DSII were in rebel hands, if shield generators on the Death Star were there then they would have targeted those as well which they didn't. These supposed working Death Star Shields were not covered in Ackbar's briefing. the only fauly bit about that information was the status of the superlaser.

Also remember that if the shields were functioning or existent then they would have been rasied prior to or immediately after the Endor base went down so that fighters could notpenetrated the suerstructure.

After all, they'll probably thing the Death Star superlaser 'eye' is a big shield generator when they see it, and not a planet destroyer.

It does bare a resemblance (mild one) to the shield emitors on NCC-1701 ya know.

.....Isn't power rangers on or something kid? As your psotion erodes your rambling gets even more ludicrous.

[Darth Wong]

The Feds might get lucky if they can read the labeling on the controls. After all, we saw in ANH that the Empire uses English labeling on their tractor beam control systems.

If they manage to stumble onto the main bridge and discover a variety of consoles with instrumentation relating to something called "superlaser", the realization of the Death Star's true nature will dawn on them very quickly.

[Darth Fanboy]

The Feds might get lucky if they can read the labeling on the controls. After all, we saw in ANH that the Empire uses English labeling on their tractor beam control systems.

If they manage to stumble onto the main bridge and discover a variety of consoles with instrumentation relating to something called "superlaser", the realization of the Death Star's true nature will dawn on them very quickly.

But more frequently they use Aurabesh (Star Destroyer Computers, Shuttles computers)

The English switch in ANH was so the auudience had a clue of what obi wan was doing and the only time English was ever used if Im remembering right.