Good ST vs SW Homeworld Mod

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2002-10-17 10:17pm

Single player is guarenteed to be fucked up with any and all Homeworld mods. It is because no Homeworld mods are yet to the point of rewriting the single player missions.

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2002-10-18 02:46am

Okay I installed New Rebellion, it was fun, but my main gripes are:
-ships too small (even super capital ships are too damn small, I don't care if the mothership is supposed to be humongous)
-ships too stupid: fighters nearly don't fight, capital ships take forever to get in position to attack anything and sometimes seem to ignore you.

What was the VS Trek game again?

Rightous Fist Of Heaven · Post by **Rightous Fist Of Heaven** » 2002-10-18 05:12am

Slartibartfast wrote:
The smaller ships should be as visible as the original Homeworld, at least. Anything smaller will make it unplayable IMO.

I guess I should try it, but I already tried the one for Cataclysm and it suffered greatly from this problem. The default zoom should be enough to see the small ships next to the big ones.

Not really since then the size is all fucked up, the fighters in the original were 50 meters in length and in my oppinion much too large. But in SW:NR and in SW: I the sizes imo are fine.

I know that the cataclysm one is very much un finished yet but the best mods are for Homeworld.

Okay I installed New Rebellion, it was fun, but my main gripes are:
-ships too small (even super capital ships are too damn small, I don't care if the mothership is supposed to be humongous)
-ships too stupid: fighters nearly don't fight, capital ships take forever to get in position to attack anything and sometimes seem to ignore you.

What was the VS Trek game again?

Too small? Damn man the sizes are completely correct every ship has been scaled correctly when compared to some other ship, but if you like i can upload the version of SW:NR that im playing. Its got the Home One and that IS huge it allso has a new ISD model which kicks ass.

The fighter AI in Homeworld is really something that cannot be fixed, in Cata the fighters get into dog fights etc. but this cannot be implemented to Homeworld and that is not the fault of the mods. Cap ships too slow? Use hyperspace for long distance travels and offcourse they are a bit slow they arent fighters.

I gave the link in page 2 of this thread to the SW:I mod, try it.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 2002-10-18 08:19am

Hello RFOH, have u finsihed the IMP -v- REBEL home world mod yet. i'm getting bored blowing up galaxy class ships,

Rightous Fist Of Heaven · Post by **Rightous Fist Of Heaven** » 2002-10-18 10:28am

Sorry Muad'Dib im still doing some balancing on the SSD, altough its not buildable you can use it in one custom map, its got some problems and im trying to fix them but i can get it up in the next 24 hours. You can allso pick up the same mod from the SW:NR homepage but the version that im playing with has some extra goodies in it, both carriers replaced and some other stuff.

Rightous Fist Of Heaven · Post by **Rightous Fist Of Heaven** » 2002-10-18 10:46am

And once again i did NOT make the mod, i have just modified it to some degree.

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2002-10-18 11:21am

Rightous Fist Of Heaven wrote:
Slartibartfast wrote:
The smaller ships should be as visible as the original Homeworld, at least. Anything smaller will make it unplayable IMO.

I guess I should try it, but I already tried the one for Cataclysm and it suffered greatly from this problem. The default zoom should be enough to see the small ships next to the big ones.
Not really since then the size is all fucked up, the fighters in the original were 50 meters in length and in my oppinion much too large. But in SW:NR and in SW: I the sizes imo are fine.

Really. It's more important to have an aesthetically pleasing, playable game than one that respects actual ship sizes.

Okay I installed New Rebellion, it was fun, but my main gripes are:
-ships too small (even super capital ships are too damn small, I don't care if the mothership is supposed to be humongous)
-ships too stupid: fighters nearly don't fight, capital ships take forever to get in position to attack anything and sometimes seem to ignore you.

What was the VS Trek game again?
Too small? Damn man the sizes are completely correct every ship has been scaled correctly when compared to some other ship, but if you like i can upload the version of SW:NR that im playing. Its got the Home One and that IS huge it allso has a new ISD model which kicks ass.

Correct ship size doesn't a fun game make. The idea is to be able to SEE the ships. I don't care if they're half the size of a Destroyer, the point is that watching them fight should be fun. That's the GOOD thing about the scales of the original ships in Homeworld, that a fighter is big enough to be seen when next to a bigger ship. Frankly, in NR all I see is the triangles when I turn on the tactical display.

The fighter AI in Homeworld is really something that cannot be fixed, in Cata the fighters get into dog fights etc. but this cannot be implemented to Homeworld and that is not the fault of the mods. Cap ships too slow? Use hyperspace for long distance travels and offcourse they are a bit slow they arent fighters.

Fighters in Homeworld DO fight. They approach a ship, fire at it, go past it, then eventually turn back and fire again. Fighters in NR simply wobble a lot, sometimes they fire, but mostly they just stay there. They don't even circle or do anything around he target.

My guess is that the AI doesn't even try to fire because they can't get a positive lock *because* the target ships are too small for the game. That and the coverage is too little: 1%, while in HW the fighters are like 12% (so fighters try to get a PERFECT line of sight before firing, that's why they don't fire at all most of the time)

C'mon, I have something like 50 TIE Fighters near my base and every time a T-65 comes flying by, I make everyone attack it with aggressive tactics. They chase him half over the map before even attempting to shoot it down, even if they're faster, and they miss 99% of the shots. Same thing when trying to shoot down resourcers, they just wobble around, after like 5 minutes of flying around it they start taking potshots.

It's not that Cap ships are too slow, it's that they seem to not want to go near the target at all. Just like fighters. And hyperspace is too expensive, in the default multiplayer there's enough resources to make about 5 jumps in TOTAL (not per ship).

I'll try the SW:I one soon.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2002-10-18 04:54pm

Ships cannot be easily made larger because the Homeworld engine has a very tough time with collision avoidance for ships over about 3000m.

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2002-10-18 05:58pm

Howedar wrote:Ships cannot be easily made larger because the Homeworld engine has a very tough time with collision avoidance for ships over about 3000m.

Granted, but I would still try to stick to Homeworld original ship sizes, even if that makes a fighter too big compared to a capital ship...

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 2002-10-18 07:03pm

All this nit picking is pissing me off, RFOH has done a very admirable job in doing the things he has and all you guys can do is say well fix this, fix that. If you are so pissed off with it try doing it your self u ungrateful fuckers.

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2002-10-19 02:16am

Muad'Dib wrote:All this nit picking is pissing me off, RFOH has done a very admirable job in doing the things he has and all you guys can do is say well fix this, fix that. If you are so pissed off with it try doing it your self u ungrateful fuckers.

Rightous Fist Of Heaven wrote:And once again i did NOT make the mod, i have just modified it to some degree.

RFOH said that he didn't make the mod, so shut the fuck up Muad.

Rightous Fist Of Heaven · Post by **Rightous Fist Of Heaven** » 2002-10-19 08:41am

Muad'Dib wrote:All this nit picking is pissing me off, RFOH has done a very admirable job in doing the things he has and all you guys can do is say well fix this, fix that. If you are so pissed off with it try doing it your self u ungrateful fuckers.

Yeah give the credit to the SW:NR team, i have just balanced it to some degree, and BTW Muad i can upload my version of SW:NR today it has allso the E-Wing in buildable slot.

And more about the fighters. When i played HW with the regular ships the fighters did not dogfight, the fighter AI is improved by a large degree in Cat but in HW it sux. In the SW:NR mod the fighters make strafing runs and i have noticed that 5 B-Wings or X-Wings make very short work of resources and they attack with precision. Anyways the fighters are good as they are.

Rightous Fist Of Heaven · Post by **Rightous Fist Of Heaven** » 2002-10-19 08:43am

And Slarti if the fighters so much bother you then dont play it or re-scale the fighters yourself, i havent ever heard anyone complaining them before to the SW:NR team so everyone else is happy with them.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 2002-10-19 11:47am

My point was all u guys were bitching like it was RFOH's fault. I am an amature programer, it's not easy to please everyone, when i saod RFOH had put a lotta work into the mod i meant it, did u see the ISD model christ it was awsome, i spenp an hour just looking at ti from all angles.

Nicly done RFOH if ur ever in Belfast let me buy u a beer.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2002-10-19 12:46pm

A little self-glorification, eh? Why don't you tell everyone why you said that?

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2002-10-19 12:47pm

Whoops, different Muad'dib, if you'll believe that.

Rightous Fist Of Heaven · Post by **Rightous Fist Of Heaven** » 2002-10-19 01:45pm

As i allready said 4 times i havent done a single model that is in the mod, i have put several hours on implanting the ISD to the mod and balancing it making it a bit more like it should be but still maintaining balance so that the Feds have a chance and that i tell you is NOT easy. With the ISD for example that has over 50 guns every time if it is wrong i have to change stats in all of those guns.

But still it is a very small work compared to the work done by the team who's doing the SW:I and SW:NR mods are. Praise them not me.

Rightous Fist Of Heaven · Post by **Rightous Fist Of Heaven** » 2002-10-19 01:46pm

And Muad, if i ever come to Ireland i'll take your offer of that beer

Bob McDob · Post by **Bob McDob** » 2002-10-20 01:30am

Howedar wrote:Single player is guarenteed to be fucked up with any and all Homeworld mods. It is because no Homeworld mods are yet to the point of rewriting the single player missions.

I played HW all the way through with the Wing Commander Fleet Action mod . . . took out the Emperor's command ship with no losses