Connie/Miranda/Excelsior...better warships than TNG ships?

[Alyeska]

The Miranda is an exellent ship designed for combat, small, compact, with bark and bite. However I have always loved the Excelcior class, they reinforced the connecting fin between the primary hull and the engineering hull and added an extra torpedo launcher in it. It appears to have a larger and more powerful impulse engines for speed and hopefully manuverability as well as larger warp engines.

There is also a varient that is seen time to time on DS9 that is tenitively called the Shelly class that is a more compact version of the Excelcior class that is also very cool. The Centar is another good example of a compact and well designed ship based on the Excelcior.

Centuar really is nice, but its not exactly what it appears to be. The Excelsior saucer is to small in relation to the Miranda torepedp pod and pylons.

[Knife]

The Miranda is an exellent ship designed for combat, small, compact, with bark and bite. However I have always loved the Excelcior class, they reinforced the connecting fin between the primary hull and the engineering hull and added an extra torpedo launcher in it. It appears to have a larger and more powerful impulse engines for speed and hopefully manuverability as well as larger warp engines.

There is also a varient that is seen time to time on DS9 that is tenitively called the Shelly class that is a more compact version of the Excelcior class that is also very cool. The Centar is another good example of a compact and well designed ship based on the Excelcior.

Centuar really is nice, but its not exactly what it appears to be. The Excelsior saucer is to small in relation to the Miranda torepedp pod and pylons.

I know, however it does not need to be an off the shelf component rather a simular design. The sauser section has a number of details that don't apear on the larger cousins. The model used for the show also has a Excelcior type shuttlebay on the sauser section just forward of the bridge, witch is to large for a Excelcior sauser. Most evidence points to a smaller but simular design of the sauser section on the Centar. Still I think it could be considered a part of the Excelcior family.

[Alyeska]

The Miranda is an exellent ship designed for combat, small, compact, with bark and bite. However I have always loved the Excelcior class, they reinforced the connecting fin between the primary hull and the engineering hull and added an extra torpedo launcher in it. It appears to have a larger and more powerful impulse engines for speed and hopefully manuverability as well as larger warp engines.

There is also a varient that is seen time to time on DS9 that is tenitively called the Shelly class that is a more compact version of the Excelcior class that is also very cool. The Centar is another good example of a compact and well designed ship based on the Excelcior.

Centuar really is nice, but its not exactly what it appears to be. The Excelsior saucer is to small in relation to the Miranda torepedp pod and pylons.

I know, however it does not need to be an off the shelf component rather a simular design. The sauser section has a number of details that don't apear on the larger cousins. The model used for the show also has a Excelcior type shuttlebay on the sauser section just forward of the bridge, witch is to large for a Excelcior sauser. Most evidence points to a smaller but simular design of the sauser section on the Centar. Still I think it could be considered a part of the Excelcior family.

Agreed. It has design origins with the Excelsior (possibly using Excelsior protoype components rather then Excelsior standard compontents) while also using Miranda equipment.

FYI, some of those extra details are actually the phaser emiters from the roll bar removed and glued on the saucer instead

Given the size of the Centuar compared to the Jem'Hadar attackship, I would say the Centuar is an attempt at creating something with the power of a Miranda in a smaller form.

[seanrobertson]

Centuar really is nice, but its not exactly what it appears to be. The Excelsior saucer is to small in relation to the Miranda torepedp pod and pylons.

That's a valid point.

I thought Centaur was pretty slick, but she could've gotten
her ass kicked by one fully-functional Jem'Hadar attack ship.

Ultimately, a design is only as good as its performance, and
there's no better indication of performance than survivability
in the Dominion War. Mirandas dropped like flies...so,
as much as I like the design, they're shit.

Excelsiors didn't fare a whole lot better. Amazingly,
Galaxies probably did the best.

Speaking of which, though they are more prone to violently
blow up from internal explosions than a Miranda,
I tend to think this is somewhat overrated. The E-D's tap
on the nacelle from Bozeman is most damning, as
Michael mentioned...but other than that example, how often
have we seen a GCS blow up from anything but the most
severe damage? The E-D took lots of hits from that Klingon
Bird in "Generations," effectively unshielded, as did the
Odyssey. The Galaxy herself survived the first
battle of Chin'Toka (as evidenced by her name and registry
appearing on a tactical display in Nemesis).

Physical impacts on the warp systems seem to be their AH.
But generally speaking, in terms of solid warships, I think we
should coincidentally look between TOS AND TNG. Take a look
at the massive damage done to the E-C. *That's* a tough
ship!

[Publius]

Actually, as late as Deep Space Nine (specifically, "Paradise Lost"), the Excelsior-class starship has acquitted herself quite nicely in head-to-head combat with more modern ships.

The USS Lakota (NCC-42768), a modified Excelsior-variant, fought the much-vaunted USS Defiant (NX-74205) to a tactical stalemate (which is notable, in that the Defiant has consistently shown herself to be one of Starfleet's most formidable combat ships).

Publius

[Alyeska]

Actually, as late as Deep Space Nine (specifically, "Paradise Lost"), the Excelsior-class starship has acquitted herself quite nicely in head-to-head combat with more modern ships.

The USS Lakota (NCC-42768), a modified Excelsior-variant, fought the much-vaunted USS Defiant (NX-74205) to a tactical stalemate (which is notable, in that the Defiant has consistently shown herself to be one of Starfleet's most formidable combat ships).

Publius

Actually, the Defiant has not shown herself to be THAT powerful. It is well armed for its size, but is outgunned by anything larger then an Excelsior. The Lakota when fighting the Defiant got off 6-7 phaser blasts before the Defiant returned fire and both ships rerained from significant use of torpedoes.

[Moonshadow]

a side note after reading Wongs post about that Connie from"The Ultimate Computer" isn't it funny how quick Starfleet is to declare a ship"destroyed"? She was fairly intact even though her crew was dead. The Andromeda( the one with its own show, not a ST or SW ship) for example, lost her entire crew in a fight with the Magog World Ship, yet did the highguard declare her destroyed? No, they recrewed her( with Kirkules as the new captain) and moved on. Also the first Miranda Class USS Saratoga from ST:IV only lost all power, recieved no damage, and yet they said she was "destroyed" by the probe.

[Kamakazie Sith]

a side note after reading Wongs post about that Connie from"The Ultimate Computer" isn't it funny how quick Starfleet is to declare a ship"destroyed"? She was fairly intact even though her crew was dead. The Andromeda( the one with its own show, not a ST or SW ship) for example, lost her entire crew in a fight with the Magog World Ship, yet did the highguard declare her destroyed? No, they recrewed her( with Kirkules as the new captain) and moved on. Also the first Miranda Class USS Saratoga from ST:IV only lost all power, recieved no damage, and yet they said she was "destroyed" by the probe.

Are you sure they stated the USS Saratoga was destroyed?

[Cpt_Frank]

IIRC they didn't say it was destroyed and the last time you see the ship it's drifting without power thru space.

[Moonshadow]

in most sources i've seen about the" Whale Probe", they say the ship was destroyed. I always think i might have missed something when i see that. As you said it went adrift, but didn't have any damage.

[Cpt_Frank]

probably they thought that without the power the 'structural integrity field' would fail, ie the ship would die. however during that time, ships apparently were held together by structurally strong hulls rather than energy fields

[Alyeska]

probably they thought that without the power the 'structural integrity field' would fail, ie the ship would die. however during that time, ships apparently were held together by structurally strong hulls rather than energy fields

Voyager survived for a couple of decades when it was frozen inside of a glacier.

[Cpt_Frank]

Voyager survived for a couple of decades when it was frozen inside of a glacier.

That's not the same as if a ship filled with gas is being exposed to vacuum.

[Stormbringer]

probably they thought that without the power the 'structural integrity field' would fail, ie the ship would die. however during that time, ships apparently were held together by structurally strong hulls rather than energy fields

Voyager survived for a couple of decades when it was frozen inside of a glacier.

Probably ought of sheer spite at a universe that desperately wants it destroyed rather than any native strength.

[Isolder74]

Voyager survived for a couple of decades when it was frozen inside of a glacier.

i think it was actually sitting on the surface of a frozen planet not in the middle of a glacier. It was still visible on the surface.

[Alyeska]

Voyager survived for a couple of decades when it was frozen inside of a glacier.

i think it was actually sitting on the surface of a frozen planet not in the middle of a glacier. It was still visible on the surface.

Nope. They were walking on top of the Ice and you see that Voyager survived frozen inside of the Glacier. You also note that Voyager made a pretty damned powerful crash landing and the lowest decks were the only damage.