Can the Empire build a Sovereign ?

[The Silence and I]

And where the fuck are you getting this 'They can't make force fields as well as the Feds!' bullcrap? Your own ass?

I think he means how the feds have all their ship windows using force fields instead of glass

Now, I am not addressing anyone in particular, but this brainbug annoys me and I have to address it.

The Federation does not use forcefields for windows--pay attention to First Contact, you will notice Picard had to open a solid panel before looking out. This was a special observation window, it is normally covered by a solid hatch! If you want more proof, watch Generations, a window shatters during the crash.

[The Silence and I]

Le sigh.
You don't use turbolasers, you use phasers--it won't be a Sovereign otherwise.

So in other words the entire thing is stupidly rigged and should never have been posted. Piss off.

Did you really just say that? Read the opening post Nitram, the question was whether or not the Empire can build a Sovereign, not can the Empire build a superior ship that looks like one.

Some of us are attempting to answer that question, you appear to be trek bashing. If you feel so strongly that SW shouldn't ever attempt such a project, then leave, because the question stands, whether you like it or not.

[SirNitram]

Le sigh.
You don't use turbolasers, you use phasers--it won't be a Sovereign otherwise.

So in other words the entire thing is stupidly rigged and should never have been posted. Piss off.

Did you really just say that? Read the opening post Nitram, the question was whether or not the Empire can build a Sovereign, not can the Empire build a superior ship that looks like one.

If the question is 'Can you perfectly replicate a ship full of technology you've never seen', then yes, it's rigged, pointless, and idiotic.

Some of us are attempting to answer that question, you appear to be trek bashing. If you feel so strongly that SW shouldn't ever attempt such a project, then leave, because the question stands, whether you like it or not.

'omfg! he sez warz kin dew sumtin trek kant! trek bazher!'

Look, retard. I approached this intelligently... Using Wars technology to emulate every feature of the Sovereign. And I did it. Your best whine is it's not a perfect duplicate.

[The Silence and I]

By the same logic if the Federation were to attempt to build an ISD they could then get away with installing uber phasers, a faster warp drive, federation style shielding, SIF, plasma conduits etc, and as long as it met the speed and power requirements it would qualify as an ISD?

That is not logical.

I would say the answer to the question posted is, no, not realistically. But I guess if all it has to be is slow, underpowered (or even fully powered as some have suggested), and look like a federation ship, then yes, they can do it.

[SirNitram]

By the same logic if the Federation were to attempt to build an ISD they could then get away with installing uber phasers, a faster warp drive, federation style shielding, SIF, plasma conduits etc, and as long as it met the speed and power requirements it would qualify as an ISD?

If they could actually get it to perform in roughly the same class, they would, in fact, have done it. But the Federation lacks the power generation, structural science, direct energy transfer weapons, supralight speeds, armour capability, and until recently, hullhugging shield technology to do this. So they can't. Deal.

That is not logical.

Yes, your entire whining is.

I would say the answer to the question posted is, no, not realistically. But I guess if all it has to be is slow, underpowered (or even fully powered as some have suggested), and look like a federation ship, then yes, they can do it.

Lovely strawman. I demonstrated they can emulate all capabilities of a Sovereign, NOT make a ship that looks like one.

[Tech^salvager]

plasma conduits

]
Aren't Plasma conduits dnagerous to have around bridge or it this something else?

[The Silence and I]

If parity of capability is all that is needed (and I would contest that, but will drop that matter for now), then you still haven't succeeded.

Phasers, for example. A turbolaser with the same power output as a phaser will have radically different effects. Phasers are a chain reaction weapon the likes of which I have never heard of in SW. The Galaxy gun is the closest I can think of, and it is not a ship mounted weapon, it also has unknown properties. To assume it is just like a phaser is foolish. But lets say they can cobble something together that fits the bill--it makes matter disappear, it has a wide range of options/settings (e.g. stuning masses of people, precise surgury like operations etc) and it has a direct energy component for use against shieids. As unlike anything in SW it is, they have come this far; now, what about the phaser arrays? Those arrays allow full weapons coverage, damage redundancy etc. Is the Wars answer to install many hundreds of these just now invented weapons? Simple putting turbolasers on the ship is not going to grant parity of capability--to do that you need phasers, or something very similar, and mounted in linear arrays at that. If you contest SW can do this, show me your evidence for the existence of phaser like technology; like it or not simulating this is a big part of successfully granting parity of capability.

Transporters; parity of capability means this project must have some device that allows someone to go from the ship to somewhere never visited, to move around a bit, and come back. The closest equivalent SW has cannot do this, it needs a device at both ends. This is not parity of capability.

Warp drive, a slow hyperdrive cannot do half the things a warp drive can. The warp engines are a vital part of Federation technology, granting mass lightening, subspace manipulation etc. SW can make a slow hyperdrive, but it will never fully fit the bill. Depending on how faithful this project is supposed to be, this could be as problemmatic as phasers and transporters.

Replicators--sure, duplicators offer parity/superior capability, so that follows.

I've probably missed a few, but even if parity of capabilty is all that is needed, SW still has a lot of ground to cover.

[The Silence and I]

plasma conduits

]
Aren't Plasma conduits dnagerous to have around bridge or it this something else?

There is nothing so fundementally dangerous about them that they can only be a death trap, but it appears the Federation cannot/does not provide enough surge protection in the bridge.

[SirNitram]

If parity of capability is all that is needed (and I would contest that, but will drop that matter for now), then you still haven't succeeded.

This should be an amusing set of nonsense.

Phasers, for example. A turbolaser with the same power output as a phaser will have radically different effects. Phasers are a chain reaction weapon the likes of which I have never heard of in SW. The Galaxy gun is the closest I can think of, and it is not a ship mounted weapon, it also has unknown properties. To assume it is just like a phaser is foolish.

This is hilarious. They have a weapon which shows the same properties and you say 'To assume it's just like a phaser is foolish'. Yea, because we know it's not like they don't act the same.. Whoops, they do.

But lets say they can cobble something together that fits the bill--it makes matter disappear, it has a wide range of options/settings (e.g. stuning masses of people, precise surgury like operations etc) and it has a direct energy component for use against shieids. As unlike anything in SW it is, they have come this far; now, what about the phaser arrays? Those arrays allow full weapons coverage, damage redundancy etc. Is the Wars answer to install many hundreds of these just now invented weapons? Simple putting turbolasers on the ship is not going to grant parity of capability--to do that you need phasers, or something very similar, and mounted in linear arrays at that. If you contest SW can do this, show me your evidence for the existence of phaser like technology; like it or not simulating this is a big part of successfully granting parity of capability.

Let's get this straight: You think whining about how they will have an easily dial-a-yield beam weapon will not be like having.. An easily dial-a-yield beam weapon?

Transporters; parity of capability means this project must have some device that allows someone to go from the ship to somewhere never visited, to move around a bit, and come back. The closest equivalent SW has cannot do this, it needs a device at both ends. This is not parity of capability.

Really? I don't recall the Rings needing a pad at the other end. Please, show this evidence.

Warp drive, a slow hyperdrive cannot do half the things a warp drive can. The warp engines are a vital part of Federation technology, granting mass lightening, subspace manipulation etc. SW can make a slow hyperdrive, but it will never fully fit the bill. Depending on how faithful this project is supposed to be, this could be as problemmatic as phasers and transporters.

Wow, what a fucking liar you are. Mass lightening they have. Subspace manip they have(Check out the ISD stats in WEG). Not to mention I pointed out they CAN fashion a warp drive together, but you whined that being able to match the physics behind it somehow doesn't count.

Replicators--sure, duplicators offer parity/superior capability, so that follows.

I've probably missed a few, but even if parity of capabilty is all that is needed, SW still has a lot of ground to cover.

No, it doesn't. Not unless you're a retard who thinks that it needs to have 'made in Federation' stickers all over it to get parity of capability.

[apocolypse]

Okay, I noticed one of the items brought up for the Sovereign was the holodeck. Exactly where has that been shown on the E-E? The Galaxy has them, but they've never been alluded to for the Sovereign class AFAIK.

[SirNitram]

Okay, I noticed one of the items brought up for the Sovereign was the holodeck. Exactly where has that been shown on the E-E? The Galaxy has them, but they've never been alluded to for the Sovereign class AFAIK.

First Contact.

[apocolypse]

Okay, I noticed one of the items brought up for the Sovereign was the holodeck. Exactly where has that been shown on the E-E? The Galaxy has them, but they've never been alluded to for the Sovereign class AFAIK.

First Contact.

Fuck me...how did I forget about that? Thanks.

[Tech^salvager]

Okay, I noticed one of the items brought up for the Sovereign was the holodeck. Exactly where has that been shown on the E-E? The Galaxy has them, but they've never been alluded to for the Sovereign class AFAIK.

First Contact.

Fuck me...how did I forget about that? Thanks.

I thought that part was stupid with the tommy gun. Well atleast I didn't like it.

[SirNitram]

First Contact.

Fuck me...how did I forget about that? Thanks.

I thought that part was stupid with the tommy gun. Well atleast I didn't like it.

I only found it stupid that he didn't think to replicate some Tommy's after that scene, and seeing that they worked. But it was a fun scene, in the sense of the whole movie was fun. It was a zombie hunter flick! In space!

[nightmare]

There may be something with warp-like qualities in SW. I've heard about subhyperjumps in the NJO, anyone else know more about this?

It's supposed to be partially activating the hyperdrive together with your sublight engines, to achive high velocities.

[Ted C]

So it is pretty clear that the UFP cant build an ISD, the technological disparity is too great. But what about the opposite ? Can the Empire build a Sovereign class starship ?

No. A Sovereign incorporates technologies (like transporters) that the Empire never developed.

The Empire could build a ship that performs at least as well as a Sovereign in every conceivable area (with the exception of transporters and other technologies that just don't exist in the Empire). More power, more firepower, more shielding, more speed, etc. in a ship of the same size.

[Elheru Aran]

Really? I don't recall the Rings needing a pad at the other end. Please, show this evidence.

Umm... not arguing or anything, just a question-- Rings? Isn't that SG-1? Or do you refer to the matter-transportation technology that was used in a Boba Fett comic?

[SirNitram]

Really? I don't recall the Rings needing a pad at the other end. Please, show this evidence.

Umm... not arguing or anything, just a question-- Rings? Isn't that SG-1? Or do you refer to the matter-transportation technology that was used in a Boba Fett comic?

The latter.

[FedRebel]

Umm... not arguing or anything, just a question-- Rings? Isn't that SG-1?

The SW transporter ring looks like an oversized hula hoop

Or do you refer to the matter-transportation technology that was used in a Boba Fett comic?

The transporter "hoop" was used by Magwit the Magician

According to EGWT the max range of the hoop is 50 meters and the hoops power cells die after 1 minute

[Elheru Aran]

OK, thanks for clearing that up... by the way, I thought that was an alien technology now lost, that Magwit only knew how to operate and repair? And would the Empire/Republic be capable of reproducing it? Somehow I have my doubts about that...

[FedRebel]

I thought that was an alien technology now lost,

Yep

that Magwit only knew how to operate and repair?

That's all he knows according to EGWT

And would the Empire/Republic be capable of reproducing it? Somehow I have my doubts about that...

It'd take a few years atleast to reverse engineer the only known teleporters and construct a prototype

Provided the original creator is still alive the Empire has methods to make him cooperate and show them how to construct the devices. but that's unlikely unless the IR takes sudden interest in the tech, arrests Magwit, forces him to tell them who and what the creator is, and where to find him/her

[dworkin]

I see SW produced Sovvies appealing to a similar subculture to those who like bridge jumping. These ships will be scratch built affairs and will be used for escapades like seeing how big a warp rift they can tear and survive, how fast can they go without exploding, teleports bouncing of multiple recievers, teleporting through shields by 'adjusting the phase polarity blah blah'.

Of course, these activities will be at the most semi-legal.

'I've seen Sovvie racing over Malasteer. Very fast, very dangerous.'

The worst scenario is where these guys find the connection to the ST universe and decide to race their hot-rods against the 'real things'.

[dragon]

Asking if the Empire could build a Sovereign is like asking if the modern US Navy could build a sail-driven wooden frigate. They could eventually, but the lack of appropriate infrastructure and training would make it an enormous effort to build a very inferior ship.

They already did. Actually it was one of the classes at the academy and now the senior class takes cruises on it on a regular basis.

[brianeyci]

And this means they're better at making forcefields... HOW?

He's A darkstar follower, so logic is not something you can expect (and I think he belives, that since SW doesn't use forcefields so often their forcefield tech must be worse.

Hrm poisoning the well are we? And no I'm not a Darkstar follower, as I have said. Neither am I a Wong follower. Piss you off? I question why some hate Darkstar's pages, so I am a follower now am I? Hm...

My comment on the force fields is that SW ships don't regularly use them, and we haven't seen the type of force fields in SW which produce a shimmer -- if you are using EU, then I don't know since I don't read the books, perfectly fair. But I don't remember seeing the kind of shimmer effects in the movies. Are there examples of SW ships in the EU that use forcefields to the extent that Federation ships do? Do we have examples smaller force fields? I remember seeing a force field in the docking bay, but that's it.

I'm not saying that there would have to be a "made in fed" sticker. I'm just saying that a lot of the ideas being tossed around like "replace phasers with turbolasers". If you want to create a fleet that would look like Sovereigns but use superior technology, fine. That's a whole different story than creating an actual historical simulation of a sovereign. Like, if some rich Hut found schematics to the Sovereign, how long would it take for the Empire to build one?

Maybe a better question would be, if the Empire actually found schematics of the Sovereign and all its related technologies, how long would it take for the Empire to create such technologies. Would it actually take all the resources of the Empire, or could a rich Hut do it? And better question yet, what would be the tactical significance of a ship that could look like a Sovereign, since there really is no reason why you would want to "surprise" ST given that hyperdrive already does that.

Brian

[Tech^salvager]

Do we have examples smaller force fields?

Those Destroyer Droids in ep1 uses small force fields.

Can the Empire build a Sovereign class starship ?

From the start a extact duplicate no. After researching the Tech probably. IMHO