The Milky Way Post-Conquest

[Ghost Rider]

Woops, must be too tired, the cloak thing, for some reason I missed that.
; p

A SW Ship could fire while cloaked, it just wouldnt' see if it hit anything or not, right?

Actually any SW ship can fired while Cloaked. Maul's was special and was created differently.

It would just be hellishly expensive to upgrade it anything larger then something the size of a frieghter at best.

For Maul it was damned effective, for an ISD it would be an immense waste, since it would be better spending building more crusiers instead.

Maul's ship was a tiny fighter. What do you mean that it was special? Don't tell me it was some technological leap that was lost.... (what happened to his ship anyway...?).

The Stygian Cloak system it had could fire while cloak and have a full sensor array.

It's only problem was never the tech leap...it's problem was it was DAMN expensive, like I said before.

[Praxis]

Praxis:

Wait a minute, what's this crap about a "barrier" around the galaxy? I thought that was only in Star Trek? In AOTC they have visited other galaxies... or is this just outdated NJO bullshit (I haven't read those books)?

It's not the same kind of barrier as in Star Trek. There's just some kind of hyperspace storm around the galaxy, that prevents ships from exitting the galaxy using hyperdrive. At least, that was the theory (see Vector Prime, the worst NJO book, or Dark Tide 1).

If it somehow magically blocked hyperspace, why couldn't they use alternative means of propulsion?

I'd bet thats EXACTLY what the Outbound Flight project was trying to do before Thrawn nuked it.
The Vong were able to go past it somehow.

I'd bet the Empire could find a way eventually.

[Praxis]

Note: No one knew that the OF project had been destroyed by Thrawn, they all assumed it had been destroyed leaving the galaxy. It probably would have worked, but the scientists thought that it hadn't so they scratched the project.

[Agent Fisher]

Note: No one knew that the OF project had been destroyed by Thrawn, they all assumed it had been destroyed leaving the galaxy. It probably would have worked, but the scientists thought that it hadn't so they scratched the project.

That is not true. It was destroyed on a shakedown cruise around the galaxy, and through the unknown regions.

[Ghost Rider]

Actually the barrier is overriden by canon.

Unless you believe that somehow the OR had a way around this thing but the GE and the NR lost this forbidden knowledge.

[UCBooties]

In AOTC they have visited other galaxies...

hold on, when did it say anyone had left the Galaxy, I deffinately don't remember that. Please elaborate.

[Praxis]

Note: No one knew that the OF project had been destroyed by Thrawn, they all assumed it had been destroyed leaving the galaxy. It probably would have worked, but the scientists thought that it hadn't so they scratched the project.

That is not true. It was destroyed on a shakedown cruise around the galaxy, and through the unknown regions.

Thats completely true. Thrawn was the commander of the Chiss forces that destroyed it in the unknown regions.

[The Original Nex]

Regarding the Stygium Cloak.

They didn't stop using them because they were expensive, they stopped using them because the Stygium Crystal mines on Aeten II ran dry before the rise of the Empire.

Grand Admiral Batch worked for years trying to build a non-stygium cloaking device but failed to make them as reliable as the Stygium ones. Later, Batch used the Tarkin Superlaser platform to shatter Aeten II with released scores of Stygium which was hidden deep withing the planet. He began to construct new Stygium Cloaks and installed them on his prototype TIE Phantoms and on his personal SSD Terror.

After Batch's operation was thwarted by Rebel operatives and he was assasinated by his own men, Aeten II's remains were forgotten and remain undiscovered by the New Republic or Imperial Remnant.

[Agent Fisher]

Note: No one knew that the OF project had been destroyed by Thrawn, they all assumed it had been destroyed leaving the galaxy. It probably would have worked, but the scientists thought that it hadn't so they scratched the project.

That is not true. It was destroyed on a shakedown cruise around the galaxy, and through the unknown regions.

Thats completely true. Thrawn was the commander of the Chiss forces that destroyed it in the unknown regions.

Once it was done with the shakedown cruise it was to return and any problems were going to be fixed and then it would head out.

[Ghost Rider]

In AOTC they have visited other galaxies...

hold on, when did it say anyone had left the Galaxy, I deffinately don't remember that. Please elaborate.

They have two satellite galaxies mapped out in AoTC in the Jedi library.

And thanks for the update on the Stygian cloan, Nex.

[Dalton]

Note: No one knew that the OF project had been destroyed by Thrawn, they all assumed it had been destroyed leaving the galaxy. It probably would have worked, but the scientists thought that it hadn't so they scratched the project.

That is not true. It was destroyed on a shakedown cruise around the galaxy, and through the unknown regions.

Thats completely true. Thrawn was the commander of the Chiss forces that destroyed it in the unknown regions.

Both wrong, because it wasn't destroyed - see Survivor's Quest.

[Praxis]

That is not true. It was destroyed on a shakedown cruise around the galaxy, and through the unknown regions.

Thats completely true. Thrawn was the commander of the Chiss forces that destroyed it in the unknown regions.

Both wrong, because it wasn't destroyed - see Survivor's Quest.

Haven't seen Survivor's Quest, but I'm absolutely sure I recall Thrawn telling someone that he commanded the task force that wiped out part of the OF project.

[Pu-239]

Some of the Trek technology that have SW equivalents seem to be more prevalent, due to perhaps lower cost, in Trek.

Phasers and the Empire's power generation capabilities, assuming phaser technology can be scaled up... the NDF effects may be useful

Transwarp hubs and whatnot may be cheaper to operate than hyperdrives.

Standard warp for tactical manuvers (although the unstability may make this unacceptable)


Can the phase cloak technology be recovered?

Trilithium torpedoes?

Also, why aren't duplicators used on SW ships to recycle waste into food? It would save on logistics, since energy on SW ships seems easy to come by.

Do we ever see training using holodecks and such?

Sorry, my knowledge of Wars and Trek is limited to ANH, ROTJ, and TPM, pieces of Voyager and DS9 and some movies, and what I see on this board.

[Praxis]

Some of the Trek technology that have SW equivalents seem to be more prevalent, due to perhaps lower cost, in Trek.

Phasers and the Empire's power generation capabilities, assuming phaser technology can be scaled up... the NDF effects may be useful

good point. Stormtroopers could use a weapon that makes unarmored civilians disappear into thin air as a good terror weapon.

Transwarp hubs and whatnot may be cheaper to operate than hyperdrives.

I dunno. The borg don't strike me as the surrender type. I'd expect that they'd just stupidly send every last cube, station and drone just waltzing up to Imperial ships to be destroyed, and firing even when they obviously don't stand a chance in a supernova.

I'd think it would be more likely that they'd force the Empire to just blow up the transwarp hub rather than capture it.

Standard warp for tactical manuvers (although the unstability may make this unacceptable)

It might be useful- someone is blocking your exit path with a fleet or an interdictor, warp around it then use hyperdrive.

Can the phase cloak technology be recovered?

Most likely, if the Empire brings the Admiral from Pegasus out of prison.

Trilithium torpedoes?

Nope, Soran is dead and all his research was destroyed in his station and on the Klingon Bird of Prey. But I wonder if Kyp Durron could recover the sun crusher torpedo...

[Dalton]

Haven't seen Survivor's Quest, but I'm absolutely sure I recall Thrawn telling someone that he commanded the task force that wiped out part of the OF project.

And Thrawn was either lying or exaggerating, because it was found heavily damaged by the Chiss. As I said, read Survivor's Quest.

[The Original Nex]

Haven't seen Survivor's Quest, but I'm absolutely sure I recall Thrawn telling someone that he commanded the task force that wiped out part of the OF project.

And Thrawn was either lying or exaggerating, because it was found heavily damaged by the Chiss. As I said, read Survivor's Quest.

Wasn't it the Vagaari who did the primary damage to the OFP?

[The Wookiee]

Haven't seen Survivor's Quest, but I'm absolutely sure I recall Thrawn telling someone that he commanded the task force that wiped out part of the OF project.

And Thrawn was either lying or exaggerating, because it was found heavily damaged by the Chiss. As I said, read Survivor's Quest.

Wasn't it the Vagaari who did the primary damage to the OFP?

Mmm, I think that might have been the case...I'll have to check that.

[brianeyci]

There is of course, another question. Technological prowress aside, how much effort would the Empire need to put into holding the Milky Way? I bring out ST's poster boy, Picard.

TNG, "The Best of Both Worlds" (my favourite episodes in TNG)

PICARD
I have nothing to say to you, and
I will resist you with my last
ounce of strength.

BORG
Strength is irrelevant.
Resistance is futile. We wish to
improve ourselves. We will add
your biological and technological
distinctiveness to our own. Your
culture will adapt to service ours.

PICARD
Impossible. My culture is based
on freedom and self-determination.

BORG
Freedom is irrelevant. Self-determination
is irrelevant. You must comply.

PICARD
We would rather die.

BORG
Death is irrelevant.

So, how many "Picards" are there? If there's 150 core planets with several billion lifeforms, let's choose 5 billion, then that's 750 billion people. If only 0.01% of the population chose to actively take up arms once the Empire that's 750 million Picards running around willing to cause havoc and die rather than serve the Emperor. Even if we use far more conservative numbers, the Picards would still number in the mid millions. And that's just for the Federation. If the Empire wanted to hold the entire Milky Way galaxy, they would have to deal with maybe 5-10 Federations (rough obviously) of population. Let's say 1 billion Picards willing to fight the Empire despite the odds. This would obviously not be an organized campaign of any sort. It would be small resistance cells, causing as much havoc as possible. Perhaps Picard is a bad example, since Picard is too idealistic -- terrorists would have to resort to methods Picard would never agree to. Pre-DS9 Kiras would be a better example -- willing to assassinate Empire leaders and kill Bajorans for their ideals.

What about BDZ and the Death Stars? Wouldn't annihilating enough planets be enough to pacify the Milky Way? Of course. It might stop the Picards, who are worried about civilians. But to have real control over the Milky Way, you would need troops. You would need to show you are tough in the Milky Way's toughest neighbourhoods by walking stormtroopers on regular patrols. And you would need numerical superority. 750 million Kiras/Picards means 7.5 billion stormtroopers, if you go by conventional military wisdom against counter-insurgency campaigns. Of course, the Empire's technological prowress would make this number smaller, but you would still need to outnumber the terrorists.

I could imagine the Empire making puppet political parties in the Milky Way, but not occupying every single planet. The Empire doesn't even do that in its own galaxy. The Empire would have to tread a fine line between puppet political leaders, who would if divorced long enough from the Empire get their own ambitions, and perhaps prove more trouble than they are worth. And if the Empire appointed political leader from SW's galaxy decides to fortify his new planet with SW planetary shielding and go rogue -- well, you'd have a problem, and would need to bring in a Death Star.

Brian

[Robert Walper]

*snip*

The Empire has the same issues in it's own galaxy. That's why they devote so many resources towards terror weapons, like the Death Stars. Rule through fear, not numbers.

[Kurgan]

Actually any SW ship can fired while Cloaked. Maul's was special and was created differently.

It would just be hellishly expensive to upgrade it anything larger then something the size of a frieghter at best.

For Maul it was damned effective, for an ISD it would be an immense waste, since it would be better spending building more crusiers instead.

Maul's ship was a tiny fighter. What do you mean that it was special? Don't tell me it was some technological leap that was lost.... (what happened to his ship anyway...?).

The Stygian Cloak system it had could fire while cloak and have a full sensor array.

It's only problem was never the tech leap...it's problem was it was DAMN expensive, like I said before.

So it was a "perfect cloak" that was fully functional AND invisible?

Because sensor emissions could be detected...

I mean, could the EU "CGT Sensors" detect Maul's ship?

And finally, I wonder how expensive it was? The current explanation for Cloaks is that they're blind, and that's why the Empire, which can afford to build moon-sized battle stations (and in the EU, countless superweapons to destroy the entire galaxy) and huge fleets doesn't build any.

In Rebel Assault II, you sabotage a project to build a cloaked fighter, but they don't go into huge detail about it, and it's a game...

[Kurgan]

*snip*

The Empire has the same issues in it's own galaxy. That's why they devote so many resources towards terror weapons, like the Death Stars. Rule through fear, not numbers.

The Empire seems to do both. Don't they have huge fleets and countless fighters?

[Kurgan]

PS: I realize I'm hopelessly lost because I haven't been reading any of these EU books people are pulling all this info from.

Apologies for all the questions and such relating to that...

[Darth Wong]

PICARD: We would rather die.

History is no doubt filled with people who say such brave words. In reality, humans have quite easily accomodated dictators throughout most of history, particularly when death or deprivation was the only alternative.

[brianeyci]

History is no doubt filled with people who say such brave words. In reality, humans have quite easily accomodated dictators throughout most of history, particularly when death or deprivation was the only alternative.

Very true DW. Picard is indeed a bad terrorist -- all talk and no walk. pre-DS9 Kiras would be the prototype. Walper, you're exactly on about what I thought about the Death Stars -- rule by fear. And plus the necessity of having a weapon that could punch through planetary shielding.

Ruling through fear has its limits though. If the number of Kira-types is around 500 million in the whole galaxy, then they could cause a lot of trouble for the Empire. The Cardassians didn't perform mass executions or blow up planets though.

It would be likely that the Empire would have to have puppet political parties on most planets, and perhaps a minimal presence on others given that their fleet would have to guard two galaxies, with large standby fleets ready to hyper into hotzones. Over time, troops who are always on the defensive would be worn down. What are you going to do, blow up a planet every time someone blows up a bomb and kills a minor official? It would depend on how well the Empire could brainwash its new citizens, and how well it could control the puppet political parties.

Brian

[brianeyci]

The Empire seems to do both. Don't they have huge fleets and countless fighters?

Sure but you can't blow up a planet every time there is some small rebellion. You need troops, and fighters, and a fleet to guard against piracy etc.

Brian