Combat Massacre

[Batman]

Haven't we discussed to death that the Borg most likely won't be able to adapt to blasters???

Yes. But the question is not exactly closed yet. We have not seen heavy firepower used against the Borg. If we ever see Borg adapting to the Breen CRM-114, the question will be closed (see my hypothesis above).
Brian

Assuming Quark wasn't talking out of his ass, of course.
Given that the quote would give ther CRM-114 more than three orders of magnitude more firepower than phasers, and that wether armor is reactive or not is quite simply irrelevant to an energy weapon, I'd say that's not exactly the most reliable source.

[General Zod]

Haven't we discussed to death that the Borg most likely won't be able to adapt to blasters???

Yes. But the question is not exactly closed yet. We have not seen heavy firepower used against the Borg. If we ever see Borg adapting to the Breen CRM-114, the question will be closed (see my hypothesis above).

Brian

you mean heavy firepower like species 90210? oh, wait. . .

[brianeyci]

Before I start, remember the point is to prove that Jem'Hadar are better than Klingons. Not very hard to do, and I should do it with this rebuttal.

EXACTLY my point. We've seen them use it for ambush, but NEVER in a battle. Ever.

You said sneak, as if all they did was use their cloak for scouting. They use their cloak to ambush, which means they hide in wait for an enemy and attack. Which means Jem'Hadar are smarter than Klingons -- ever see a Klingon hide behind anything except Worf behind a rock?

No they didn't. The Jem Hadar that charged were the ones that had just beamed down to the planet from the NEW Jem Hadar ship.

We don't know how many Jem'Hadar beamed down from the new Jem'Hadar ship. What we do know is that the Defiant was under attack by two Jem'Hadar vessels. The Defiant couldn't have handled one of those large Jem'Hadar dreadnaughts, so in all likelihood the two ships in orbit were the smaller bug type ships. We've seen the interior of a bug ship and know that it can't hold more than maybe a few dozen troops. For all we know, a couple of officers beamed down. We do know that there are "two columns" of Jem'Hadar, but whatever the hell that means we don't know, nor do we know if those two columns were there in the first place. Burden of proof is on you to show that the two columns beamed down from the Jem'Hadar ship rather than a couple of officers, or supplies, or otherwise.

The feds said the Jem Hadar had been charging pratically every other day.

And the feds, ten people? They had a hundred and fifty.

Don't talk out of your ass.

LARKIN
I know our orders, Captain. But
maybe Starfleet Command isn't
aware of our situation -- we've
been holding this place for five
months. That's five months of
fighting off repeated Jem'Hadar
attempts to take it back. When
we landed here, there was a
hundred and fifty of us... we're
down to forty-three.

Where does it say that they charged every single day? It says they repeatedly attacked, not that they charged every single day like morons.And if you watched the episode, you'll note that we didn't see forty-three different Starfleet personnel in the narrow chokepoint. We see around ten people, including Sisko's people, in the chokepoint in the last charge. The only rational way to understand this is that there was more than one way in and that the redshirts were spread out blocking more than one way (which we know is incorrect), or that many of the 43 were in sickbay, and there were only ten guys at the choke, or maybe many people were spread out in front five guys holding a choke every few meters. In any case, in the final battle, there were ten guys on the Fed's side at the final choke.

You think they charged every single day? If the Jem'Hadar charged every single day, the Jem'Hadar would have to have daily reinforcements and that would have been metioned. And where would the dozens, hundreds of Jem'Hadar bodies be huh? Hidden in Sisko's ass? When reinforcements do come, it is a surprise to the Feds. Since you are claiming COMPLETE stupidity on the part of the Jem'Hadar, the burden of proof is on you to show that they charged every single day, and "repeated attacks over months" doesn't cut it.

SISKO
They weren't here to begin with.

REESE
(putting it together)
Holograms.

NOG
(puzzled)
I don't understand...

SISKO
It was a way to see what they're
up against... determine our
numbers.

REESE
And pinpoint our positions.

LARKIN
Without risking any casualties.
Smart.

VARGAS
They're smart all right... and
we're as good as dead.

SISKO
Not yet we aren't.

So the Jem'Hadar use holograms to determine how many defenders are at the chokepoint, which from what I remember was ten guys, Sisko's people included. When have you ever seen Klingons hold back?

Also you are forgetting the mines. The Jem'Hadar walked through the minefield. So here is what happened.

1. Jem'Hadar for months do not charge the Federation. They are content to sit there and wait. We don't hear Reese or anybody else saying "they transport new Jem'Hadar down every day" and when the Dominion actually does beam down new guys it comes as a surprise. So they don't charge right away like Klingons, and they sit and twiddle their thumbs with occasional skirmish attacks. Better than Klingons, who would have charged from day one.

2. Something happens. Maybe more troops. Maybe a Founder beams down. Whatever happens, the Jem'Hadar change their mind and decide to charge ONLY after figuring out there are ten guys with no heavy weapons guarding a chokepoint by using their hologram trick.

3. They walk forward, WITHOUT screaming or doing anything stupid. Then, after the mines explode, then they scream. AFTER THE MINES EXPLODE. So, the screaming could be partly attributed to them being badly injured and screaming. Also, there aren't that many Jem'Hadar that come through the chokepoint. At most it has to be a dozen. Sisko and Co. would not have been worried about a dozen Jem'Hadar beaming down, and we're told "two columns" is more manpower than the Feds can handle. So the mines must have killed a lot of Jem'Hadar, unless Sisko seriously overestimated the number of people in two columns. Also Reese programmmed the Houdinis to be triggered by lots of movement, enough movement to indicate the Jem'Hadar have "filled the ravine".

4. The Jem'Hadar, their formation broken, many dead and only a dozen left, decide that rather than go back and face the disapproval of the Founders/Vorta, run forward. And why not, there's only ten guys from their earlier intel without any heavy weapons. Even though they'll probably lose, its better than going back and telling the Vorta/Founder they were killed by their own mines.

They keep their weapons, but they also use diversonary tactics, are patient enough to stay back and use attrition, walk in formation (columns), use weapons that are lethal even with glancing hits unless you get to a sickbay fast, etc. In short they are better than Klingons.

Brian

[brianeyci]

Assuming Quark wasn't talking out of his ass, of course.
Given that the quote would give ther CRM-114 more than three orders of magnitude more firepower than phasers, and that wether armor is reactive or not is quite simply irrelevant to an energy weapon, I'd say that's not exactly the most reliable source.

Suuuurrrrrrrre it isn't. Quark wasn't talking out of his ass because he was talking to a weapons dealer. He said it, unless there's proof otherwise it is correct. This wouldn't be the first instance of Federation stupidity (they have replicator pattern for CRM-114 since the TR-116 is based on CRM-114 chassis) so don't say the Feds would have switched to Breen weapons if they were three orders of magnitude more powerful.

Brian

[brianeyci]

you mean heavy firepower like species 90210? oh, wait. . .

Too bad so sad Species 8472 didn't use energy weapons on Borg drone shields.

Brian

[Batman]

Assuming Quark wasn't talking out of his ass, of course.
Given that the quote would give ther CRM-114 more than three orders of magnitude more firepower than phasers, and that wether armor is reactive or not is quite simply irrelevant to an energy weapon, I'd say that's not exactly the most reliable source.

Suuuurrrrrrrre it isn't. Quark wasn't talking out of his ass because he was talking to a weapons dealer.

And that follows because of...? Your wishful thinking?
Anyways, what I meant was assuming Quark actually knows what he's talking about.

He said it, unless there's proof otherwise it is correct.

Yes, because Trek characters never say things that are factually incorrect. Oh wait. They do. Even worse, technical specialists spout garbage about their alleged fields of expertise while Quark is a freaking bartender. You'll excuse me if I take dialogue with quite a grain of salt.

This wouldn't be the first instance of Federation stupidity (they have replicator pattern for CRM-114 since the TR-116 is based on CRM-114 chassis)

IS it in-universe? Or did they merely use the same prop? As the basic principle those rifles operate on are completely different I severely doubt they are actually related.

so don't say the Feds would have switched to Breen weapons if they were three orders of magnitude more powerful.

I'm not. I'm synig if they were the Dominion war would have lasted approximately a week and ended with the annihilation of the AQ powers.
3 OOM firepower advantage means one-shot kills on Fed capships. The only advantage the Breen weapons had was that they were shield-circumventing except for the Klingons. There is no evidence whatsoever for Breen weapons being more powerful than AQ ones, leave alone by a factor of 1000.
I'm not taking the word of a bartender for it when in-universe technical specialists repeately get their facts wrong.

[brianeyci]

And that follows because of...? Your wishful thinking?
Anyways, what I meant was assuming Quark actually knows what he's talking about.

Fine. So, assuming Quark knows what he's talking about unless there is reason to believe otherwise is not bad.

He said it, unless there's proof otherwise it is correct.

Yes, because Trek characters never say things that are factually incorrect. Oh wait. They do. Even worse, technical specialists spout garbage about their alleged fields of expertise while Quark is a freaking bartender. You'll excuse me if I take dialogue with quite a grain of salt.

Who the hell cares. Got a quotation of Quark spewing some technobabble? Don't think so. Geordi being stupid, or Riker being stupid, is not Quark being stupid. Might as well say that because there are people stupid in our universe, that everybody is stupid.

IS it in-universe? Or did they merely use the same prop? As the basic principle those rifles operate on are completely different I severely doubt they are actually related.

They used the same prop. We can't use the excuse that "they were lazy" because that's not in the rules. WYSIWYG, and the only way to reconcile this is to say that the Feds based the TR-116 chassis on the Breen weapon. From phasers.net six alpha quadrant races use the Breen weapon, and it is widely sold as a mercenary weapon so it is not inconcievable that the Feds have the replicator pattern.

I'm not. I'm synig if they were the Dominion war would have lasted approximately a week and ended with the annihilation of the AQ powers.
3 OOM firepower advantage means one-shot kills on Fed capships. The only advantage the Breen weapons had was that they were shield-circumventing except for the Klingons. There is no evidence whatsoever for Breen weapons being more powerful than AQ ones, leave alone by a factor of 1000.

Actually you might have a point on this one. When Quark says the weapon is "guaranteed to cut through shields of blah blah gigajoules" he might mean that the Breen rifle takes advantage of the same weakness as Breen shipboard weapons. Do you remember why the Klingon ships could stop Breen weapons? Okay, I'm retracting my hypothesis.

I'm not taking the word of a bartender for it when in-universe technical specialists repeately get their facts wrong.

Quark is probably right. The rifle could be taking advantage of the same weakness as Breen shipboard weapons do on shields.

Brian

[Praxis]

Before I start, remember the point is to prove that Jem'Hadar are better than Klingons. Not very hard to do, and I should do it with this rebuttal.

Wait wait wait. I never said the Jem Hadar were worse than Klingons. Jem Hadar are Klingons with guns instead of knives. I think that they're BARELY better than Klingons however, with deplorable battle tactics.

EXACTLY my point. We've seen them use it for ambush, but NEVER in a battle. Ever.

You said sneak, as if all they did was use their cloak for scouting. They use their cloak to ambush, which means they hide in wait for an enemy and attack. Which means Jem'Hadar are smarter than Klingons -- ever see a Klingon hide behind anything except Worf behind a rock?

Again, I never said they were worse than Klingons. They use their cloak for scouting, and ambush if they're ordered to defend, but never during a battle still.

No they didn't. The Jem Hadar that charged were the ones that had just beamed down to the planet from the NEW Jem Hadar ship.

We don't know how many Jem'Hadar beamed down from the new Jem'Hadar ship. What we do know is that the Defiant was under attack by two Jem'Hadar vessels. The Defiant couldn't have handled one of those large Jem'Hadar dreadnaughts, so in all likelihood the two ships in orbit were the smaller bug type ships. We've seen the interior of a bug ship and know that it can't hold more than maybe a few dozen troops. For all we know, a couple of officers beamed down. We do know that there are "two columns" of Jem'Hadar, but whatever the hell that means we don't know, nor do we know if those two columns were there in the first place. Burden of proof is on you to show that the two columns beamed down from the Jem'Hadar ship rather than a couple of officers, or supplies, or otherwise.

Okay, here you go:

O'BRIEN

(to com)
Captain, sensors show Jem'Hadar
troops landing nine kilometers
from your position.

Jem Hadar TROOPS were landing nine kilometers away. Not officers or supplies, TROOPS.

The feds said the Jem Hadar had been charging pratically every other day.

And the feds, ten people? They had a hundred and fifty.

Don't talk out of your ass.

LARKIN
I know our orders, Captain. But
maybe Starfleet Command isn't
aware of our situation -- we've
been holding this place for five
months. That's five months of
fighting off repeated Jem'Hadar
attempts to take it back. When
we landed here, there was a
hundred and fifty of us... we're
down to forty-three.

Where does it say that they charged every single day? It says they repeatedly attacked, not that they charged every single day like morons.And if you watched the episode, you'll note that we didn't see forty-three different Starfleet personnel in the narrow chokepoint. We see around ten people, including Sisko's people, in the chokepoint in the last charge. The only rational way to understand this is that there was more than one way in and that the redshirts were spread out blocking more than one way (which we know is incorrect), or that many of the 43 were in sickbay, and there were only ten guys at the choke, or maybe many people were spread out in front five guys holding a choke every few meters. In any case, in the final battle, there were ten guys on the Fed's side at the final choke.

You think they charged every single day? If the Jem'Hadar charged every single day, the Jem'Hadar would have to have daily reinforcements and that would have been metioned. And where would the dozens, hundreds of Jem'Hadar bodies be huh? Hidden in Sisko's ass? When reinforcements do come, it is a surprise to the Feds. Since you are claiming COMPLETE stupidity on the part of the Jem'Hadar, the burden of proof is on you to show that they charged every single day, and "repeated attacks over months" doesn't cut it.

Okay, you're right that it was less than one-fifty (I remembered the 150 number, just got the context mixed up), but it was still 43, not 10 as you said.

We were never given a full view of the battlefield, so we never had an opportunity to count, btw.

I did NOT say 'every single day' as you said, I said 'practically every OTHER day'. They said repeated Jem Hadar attacks in your own quote, correct? I didn't say every day, that'd be ridiculous.

SISKO
They weren't here to begin with.

REESE
(putting it together)
Holograms.

NOG
(puzzled)
I don't understand...

SISKO
It was a way to see what they're
up against... determine our
numbers.

REESE
And pinpoint our positions.

LARKIN
Without risking any casualties.
Smart.

VARGAS
They're smart all right... and
we're as good as dead.

SISKO
Not yet we aren't.

So the Jem'Hadar use holograms to determine how many defenders are at the chokepoint, which from what I remember was ten guys, Sisko's people included. When have you ever seen Klingons hold back?

Also you are forgetting the mines. The Jem'Hadar walked through the minefield. So here is what happened.

Yes, they were stupid enough to deploy an inefficient minefield that killed less than one person a day and could be used against them. Brilliant.

As for the holograms, again, I don't care if they're slightly smarter than Klingons, they still would get murdered by modern-day troops.

1. Jem'Hadar for months do not charge the Federation. They are content to sit there and wait. We don't hear Reese or anybody else saying "they transport new Jem'Hadar down every day" and when the Dominion actually does beam down new guys it comes as a surprise. So they don't charge right away like Klingons, and they sit and twiddle their thumbs with occasional skirmish attacks. Better than Klingons, who would have charged from day one.

For MONTHS? Rofl. 'repeated Jem Hadar attacks' does not equate to 'one or two attacks over five months'.

2. Something happens. Maybe more troops. Maybe a Founder beams down. Whatever happens, the Jem'Hadar change their mind and decide to charge ONLY after figuring out there are ten guys with no heavy weapons guarding a chokepoint by using their hologram trick.

More troops arrive, implying they had likely lost a lot of them in previous attacks.

3. They walk forward, WITHOUT screaming or doing anything stupid. Then, after the mines explode, then they scream. AFTER THE MINES EXPLODE. So, the screaming could be partly attributed to them being badly injured and screaming. Also, there aren't that many Jem'Hadar that come through the chokepoint. At most it has to be a dozen. Sisko and Co. would not have been worried about a dozen Jem'Hadar beaming down, and we're told "two columns" is more manpower than the Feds can handle. So the mines must have killed a lot of Jem'Hadar, unless Sisko seriously overestimated the number of people in two columns. Also Reese programmmed the Houdinis to be triggered by lots of movement, enough movement to indicate the Jem'Hadar have "filled the ravine".

Are you kidding? There were enough Jem Hadar to overrun the defenders, even though they were gunning the Jem Hadar down like nuts!

4. The Jem'Hadar, their formation broken, many dead and only a dozen left, decide that rather than go back and face the disapproval of the Founders/Vorta, run forward. And why not, there's only ten guys from their earlier intel without any heavy weapons. Even though they'll probably lose, its better than going back and telling the Vorta/Founder they were killed by their own mines.

Dude, the Jem Hadar completely overran the camp, killed half the defenders, knocked out Sisko, and some even GOT INSIDE THE BUILDING. That's not the work of a few surviving Jemmies.

They keep their weapons, but they also use diversonary tactics, are patient enough to stay back and use attrition, walk in formation (columns), use weapons that are lethal even with glancing hits unless you get to a sickbay fast, etc. In short they are better than Klingons.

Brian

Barely better than Klingons, yes.

Good? No.

Their 'repeated attacks', AND the fact that the Federation troops were walking around inside a minefield, only killed less than one trooper a day. That is SEVERE incompetents. Furthermore, they lost enough men in that that they weren't confident they could kill forty feddies without reinforcements. Couple that with appalling tactics (who cares if the mines went off, screaming still lets people know the precise moment you enter the valley- besides, why not use cloaks???), and they'd get taken out by MODERN day marines.

[brianeyci]

Wait wait wait. I never said the Jem Hadar were worse than Klingons. Jem Hadar are Klingons with guns instead of knives. I think that they're BARELY better than Klingons however, with deplorable battle tactics.

Fine.

Okay, here you go:

O'BRIEN

(to com)
Captain, sensors show Jem'Hadar
troops landing nine kilometers
from your position.

Jem Hadar TROOPS were landing nine kilometers away. Not officers or supplies, TROOPS.

Fine.

Okay, you're right that it was less than one-fifty (I remembered the 150 number, just got the context mixed up), but it was still 43, not 10 as you said.

We were never given a full view of the battlefield, so we never had an opportunity to count, btw.

I did NOT say 'every single day' as you said, I said 'practically every OTHER day'. They said repeated Jem Hadar attacks in your own quote, correct? I didn't say every day, that'd be ridiculous.

Fine. But we did get a full view of the chokepoint, and there were ten guys there. Repeated attacks could mean anything -- skirmishes, etc. What if there were only fifty Jem'Hadar, attacking with probing attacks picking off the Fed forces one by one? We don't know what he means by attack, and if you say they charged blindly over and over then the burden of proof is on you.

Yes, they were stupid enough to deploy an inefficient minefield that killed less than one person a day and could be used against them. Brilliant.

So? Better than Klingons. And like you said, they beamed down troops, so we don't know how many Jem'Hadar they started with. Maybe they started with fifty, and were being extra cautious because they wanted to capture the array intact. Maybe the mines were the only weapons they had. Technological limitation, not stupidity. The Jem'Hadar did the best with the weapons they had.

As for the holograms, again, I don't care if they're slightly smarter than Klingons, they still would get murdered by modern-day troops.

Who cares, all of the above (Ewoks, Redshirts, etc.) would get murdered by modern-day troops unless there were specific circumstances eg., ambushes. The point of this thread is to figure out who would die fastest to stormies, and I've just shown that it is unlikely that the Jem'Hadar charged like Klingons over and over.

For MONTHS? Rofl. 'repeated Jem Hadar attacks' does not equate to 'one or two attacks over five months'.

Repeated attacks could mean fucking anything. Definitely not charging the chokepoint over and over like Klingons, or there would be a lot more Jem'Hadar bodies and they would have mentioned regular Jem'Hadar reinforcements.

More troops arrive, implying they had likely lost a lot of them in previous attacks.

No it means nothing. There could have been fifty Jem'Hadar against one hundred and fifty Feds. We don't know.

Are you kidding? There were enough Jem Hadar to overrun the defenders, even though they were gunning the Jem Hadar down like nuts!

We see a lot of them, but there's only ten guys at the chokepoint and maybe at most a couple dozen Jem'Hadar. If you say that a dozen got gunned down at the choke before the melee, maybe three dozen Jem'Hadar.

Dude, the Jem Hadar completely overran the camp, killed half the defenders, knocked out Sisko, and some even GOT INSIDE THE BUILDING. That's not the work of a few surviving Jemmies.

All depends on how many Jem'Hadar they started out with.

Barely better than Klingons, yes.

Good? No.

Who cares, they are better than Klingons. And they are better than Borg. That's all that matters in this thread.

Their 'repeated attacks', AND the fact that the Federation troops were walking around inside a minefield, only killed less than one trooper a day. That is SEVERE incompetents. Furthermore, they lost enough men in that that they weren't confident they could kill forty feddies without reinforcements. Couple that with appalling tactics (who cares if the mines went off, screaming still lets people know the precise moment you enter the valley- besides, why not use cloaks???),

We don't know how many men the Jem'Hadar started out with. They could have started out with fifty. The minefield could have been the only thing they had, not incompetence but using what you have. Also, the minefield may have been leftover from the Dominion garrison of the array. You would scream if your body parts were sprawled all over the place by mines. Also, screaming may be a standard tactic when charging for the Jem'Hadar, and why not it is psychologically demotivating. Its not like Jem'Hadar scream all the time. There is no point using cloaks when you are going through a narrow choke and they can see your shimmer, they would have to decloak before firing their weapons so charging without cloaks was a good idea.

and they'd get taken out by MODERN day marines.

Again who cares. They are better than Borg, better than Klingons, better than a lot of guys up in that list. Borg are obviously worse than Jem'Hadar, I don't see how you could argue otherwise. Are you the one who voted Jem'Hadar anyway?

I don't see how you can even equate Klingons with Jem'Hadar. Jem'Hadar have demonstrated that they ambush, they keep their guns when they charge, they don't carry useless weapons, they march and fight as a unit, and so on. Saying the Jem'Hadar's weapons suck and therefore the Jem'Hadar are stupid doesn't say jackshit, their weapons suck and they make the best of it they can unlike the Klingons who throw away their disruptors for blunt bat'leths. And you forget one thing. The Jem'Hadar would have won in AR-558 if it wasn't for the ravine full of mines. The Jem'Hadar charged ONCE, when they had overwhelming numbers and good chance to win not many many times over many episodes like Klingons. Also, the Jem'Hadar may have had no choice but to charge -- the USS Veracruz was coming with Fed reinforcements, so the Jem'Hadar ships in orbit may have ordered them to take the array at all costs before the calvary arrived.

Brian

[jawbertsc]

Nah i pick the battle droids knock out their controller with one shot and they tip over like cheap tonka toys. In EP1 had the gungans opened fire as the droid troops deployed it would not been a fight at all even with the gungans doing the fighting.

[Techno_Union]

Nah i pick the battle droids knock out their controller with one shot and they tip over like cheap tonka toys. In EP1 had the gungans opened fire as the droid troops deployed it would not been a fight at all even with the gungans doing the fighting.

But how are going to knock out the controllers?

[Darth Yoshi]

I cast for Borg, assuming that these are the collective variants and not Lore Borg or something.

[jawbertsc]

Nah i pick the battle droids knock out their controller with one shot and they tip over like cheap tonka toys. In EP1 had the gungans opened fire as the droid troops deployed it would not been a fight at all even with the gungans doing the fighting.

But how are going to knock out the controllers?

I dunno shoot them maybe? Talk it into self destruction you tell me?

[Ghost Rider]

Nah i pick the battle droids knock out their controller with one shot and they tip over like cheap tonka toys. In EP1 had the gungans opened fire as the droid troops deployed it would not been a fight at all even with the gungans doing the fighting.

But how are going to knock out the controllers?

I dunno shoot them maybe? Talk it into self destruction you tell me?

So you're just blathering because you think you're witty.

It's so cute to see a Post count +1 dressed up with ignorance .

[Ghost Rider]

So let's actually either debate or it goes locky because a new moron is deciding the spam a topic for no other reason then to go "I can hit the submit button!!!"

[Lancer]

speaking of battle droids, are these merely the TPM ones that fall apart from a glancing shot, droidekas, or the armored Superbattledroids of AOTC?

[Terr Fangbite]

I saw the ATOC army when I made this

[jawbertsc]

So let's actually either debate or it goes locky because a new moron is deciding the spam a topic for no other reason then to go "I can hit the submit button!!!"

Thanks for your kind words i suggest you should not be so fast with the insult though. When droid army was mentioned i thought about ep1 not ep2 sinse no droid army was specified. oh an talking about unwelcomed remarks. May I suggest the golden rule. the do on to other as you have them do unto you one.

Thanks

[Ghost Rider]

So let's actually either debate or it goes locky because a new moron is deciding the spam a topic for no other reason then to go "I can hit the submit button!!!"

Thanks for your kind words i suggest you should not be so fast with the insult though. When droid army was mentioned i thought about ep1 not ep2 sinse no droid army was specified. oh an talking about unwelcomed remarks. May I suggest the golden rule. the do on to other as you have them do unto you one.

Thanks

Right, because even with Ep1 droid army. how do you intend to hit a ship in orbit when none of the armies have any orbital weaponry?

Oh, right...you didn't but you stupidity didn't think that far. I gotcha. Moron.

[jawbertsc]

So let's actually either debate or it goes locky because a new moron is deciding the spam a topic for no other reason then to go "I can hit the submit button!!!"

Thanks for your kind words i suggest you should not be so fast with the insult though. When droid army was mentioned i thought about ep1 not ep2 sinse no droid army was specified. oh an talking about unwelcomed remarks. May I suggest the golden rule. the do on to other as you have them do unto you one.

Thanks

Right, because even with Ep1 droid army. how do you intend to hit a ship in orbit when none of the armies have any orbital weaponry?

Oh, right...you didn't but you stupidity didn't think that far. I gotcha. Moron.

Really? you read minds now? I thought it would be safe to assume that either the controller would be on the planet or that the clone troops would have access to starships. I played the rp version of star wars and the ordinary droid troppers seemed as dangerous as fish in a barrel. Only the droidika required a jedi to stop them. I also noticed the way they fought in the first movie deploying right infront of their openents seemed to be a little open to get slaughtered against a real army. In the second movie they where already in fighting positions when the clone army attackedf as well. No worries and once again the kindness on this board underwelms me.

[Darth Yoshi]

Read the OP: no air support. Since many starships are also atmosphere capable, spacecraft are also out of the picture. The orbital controller ship is there only because its presence is a prerequisite.

[jawbertsc]

Read the OP: no air support. Since many starships are also atmosphere capable, spacecraft are also out of the picture. The orbital controller ship is there only because its presence is a prerequisite.

ok that should mean no space born controller as well. it does not have to be in orbit to work so it can be ground based. Which would still be allowwed in the rules. Even if its still orbital it still has to send signals down to the planet and is subject to being jammed

[Ma Deuce]

Who the hell voted for US Army?

[jawbertsc]

Who the hell voted for US Army?

Not me dude. I know the US Army learned in WWII to avoid operating without air support. I doubt they would get caught without if they could help it. I not a big fan of artificial blank vs blanks. Wars are settled on battle fields and not on paper.

[JeanLucPicard]

The Borg would kick everyone else's asses because...

1) They have personal defense shields
2) Bio-armor
3) Arm loaded plasma weapons
4) Uni-mind. They can get any information they need when they need it.
5) Super-uber strong. They can whack a person in 2.