ship comparison

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2005-02-16 05:55pm

Gustav32Vasa wrote: What do you base that on?

The fact that Borg cubes have maybe GT shielding while an ISD has high-TT to low PT firepower?

Gustav32Vasa · Post by **Gustav32Vasa** » 2005-02-16 05:56pm

Batman wrote:
Gustav32Vasa wrote: What do you base that on?
The fact that Borg cubes have maybe GT shielding while an ISD has high-TT to low PT firepower?

When first meeting the Enterprise in "Q, who?" the cubes shield was down and it survived terraton damage.

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2005-02-16 06:00pm

Gustav32Vasa wrote:
Batman wrote:
Gustav32Vasa wrote: What do you base that on?
The fact that Borg cubes have maybe GT shielding while an ISD has high-TT to low PT firepower?
When first meeting the Enterprise in "Q, who?" the cubes shield was down and it survived terraton damage.

From what? A Star Destroyer we never see? Ent-D's firepower is firmly KT-to-MT level.

Blazican · Post by **Blazican** » 2005-02-16 06:22pm

Ok everything here im basing on the story "conquest" I don tknow about real calcs and stuff. i went through the story and in Ch. 9 one star destroyer takes on 5 cubes now a lot of you guys are saying 1 SD can do so much damage but as i could see a SD couldnt take down one cube it had to limp away so to me that means even though the SD was out numbered the cubes still adapted to its weapons, not completely but somewhat so really toe to toe Cube against Sd would be a good match which i really believe a cube would win, thats mearly my opinion of course =)

Junghalli · Post by **Junghalli** » 2005-02-16 06:56pm

Blazican wrote:i went through the story and in Ch. 9 one star destroyer takes on 5 cubes now a lot of you guys are saying 1 SD can do so much damage but as i could see a SD couldnt take down one cube it had to limp away so to me that means even though the SD was out numbered the cubes still adapted to its weapons, not completely but somewhat so really toe to toe Cube against Sd would be a good match which i really believe a cube would win, thats mearly my opinion of course =)

Not a chance, Wars power generation and weapons is so ludicrously wanky it makes one want to vomit. An ISD's main reactor has a peak output of 10 million EW, comparable to a small red dwarf star! That little factoid is straight off the power generation page of the main site.
A Borg variant 1 cube is a terrifying monster by Trek standards, but it could never stand up to the awesome power of Wars' uberwank hypermattter reactors. Sorry.

Techno_Union · Post by **Techno_Union** » 2005-02-16 06:58pm

Blazican wrote:Ok everything here im basing on the story "conquest" I don tknow about real calcs and stuff. i went through the story and in Ch. 9 one star destroyer takes on 5 cubes now a lot of you guys are saying 1 SD can do so much damage but as i could see a SD couldnt take down one cube it had to limp away so to me that means even though the SD was out numbered the cubes still adapted to its weapons, not completely but somewhat so really toe to toe Cube against Sd would be a good match which i really believe a cube would win, thats mearly my opinion of course =)

I am not sure but I think Conquest was written pre-ICS... I could be wrong though. I think Wong stretched some things (the yields) so the story would be interesting. No one wants to read a story that is so one-sided that it's a one shot one kill whoo we took over the galaxy thing. But that was my take on it.

Junghalli · Post by **Junghalli** » 2005-02-16 07:06pm

Techno_Union wrote:I think Wong stretched some things (the yields) so the story would be interesting. No one wants to read a story that is so one-sided that it's a one shot one kill whoo we took over the galaxy thing. But that was my take on it.

Conquest was ALMOST that. Jesus aside from the ending the story didn't have a single real battle. It was just the Empire waltzing and massacring everybody. Oh sure, Wong deigned to allow the Feds and Borg the occasional pathetic token exploding ISD, but always at a cost of five or six of their own ships and always with the fact in mind that there were lots more where that one came from.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-02-16 07:12pm

Conquest was pre-ICS, but it was also written purposefully unballanced for dramatic purposes.

Blazican · Post by **Blazican** » 2005-02-16 07:18pm

LOL well no doubt i totally agree with you guys on that note, but i actually didnt realise the size comparison between a borg cube and an imperial star destroyer till i looked at the ship comparer, and thought hey maybe the borgs would give the Empire a run for its money. i didnt know the borg ships where hollow inside and that maybe they were not as strong as they look. and maybe they couldnt take on a star destroyer. all the federatioon ships look pretty dwarfed to a SD for that matter and next to a SSD they are tiny so it would def. be a one sided battle.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-02-16 08:00pm

You're means of approach to the subject is still horribly flawed, since the only point of measure you're using is size. Can't you see that?

Kazuaki Shimazaki · Post by **Kazuaki Shimazaki** » 2005-02-16 08:57pm

Junghalli wrote:Conquest was ALMOST that. Jesus aside from the ending the story didn't have a single real battle. It was just the Empire waltzing and massacring everybody. Oh sure, Wong deigned to allow the Feds and Borg the occasional pathetic token exploding ISD, but always at a cost of five or six of their own ships and always with the fact in mind that there were lots more where that one came from.

Think on the bright side. When an ISD goes down, it means enough Imp crew dead for dozens of larger Fed ships, and probably hundreds for small Trek ships.

Blazican · Post by **Blazican** » 2005-02-16 10:59pm

well spanky its not really flawed, i stated this to try and shed some light on what i found in the size difference. i dont know the capabilities of a borg cube but the more responses i got, the better i understood what kind of ships they are. I basically gathering information about borg so when i read the story conquest i can better understand their capabilities and such.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2005-02-16 11:57pm

You said 'Borg cubes are bigger, so I have trouble understanding how ISDs are more powerful'. Thats one-dimensional analysis. Go read any of the millions of 'SW figher vs ST capital ship' threads to see REAL size/power disparities.

Lone_Prodigy · Post by **Lone_Prodigy** » 2005-02-17 12:17am

Blazican wrote:Ok everything here im basing on the story "conquest" I don tknow about real calcs and stuff. i went through the story and in Ch. 9 one star destroyer takes on 5 cubes now a lot of you guys are saying 1 SD can do so much damage but as i could see a SD couldnt take down one cube it had to limp away so to me that means even though the SD was out numbered the cubes still adapted to its weapons, not completely but somewhat so really toe to toe Cube against Sd would be a good match which i really believe a cube would win, thats mearly my opinion of course =)

To tell you the truth, if it had been written with real calculations (they were altered to make the story better than a massacre) all 5 Borg Cubes would've gotten to "We–" before they were vapor. Remember, size matters not.

Darth Lucifer · Post by **Darth Lucifer** » 2005-02-17 12:31am

New Topic: List some ships/vessels/bases (real or not) that didn't make the picture from the OP that you wished were on there.

I'll start off with a few:

-Mir Space Station,
-The Sulaco from "Aliens"
-The ship from Disney's "The Black Hole" (I forgot what it was called)

Any more?

Gustav32Vasa · Post by **Gustav32Vasa** » 2005-02-17 01:38am

Batman wrote:
Gustav32Vasa wrote:
Batman wrote: The fact that Borg cubes have maybe GT shielding while an ISD has high-TT to low PT firepower?
When first meeting the Enterprise in "Q, who?" the cubes shield was down and it survived terraton damage.
From what? A Star Destroyer we never see? Ent-D's firepower is firmly KT-to-MT level.

If you want I can show you the calcs, the cubes hull is made up of an alloy we know the vapourize energy requirement off, and the amount of damage the cube took. Depending of the thickness of the hull you use we get something between 1,5 TT and 12 TT.

Kazuaki Shimazaki · Post by **Kazuaki Shimazaki** » 2005-02-17 01:40am

Gustav32Vasa wrote:If you want I can show you the calcs, the cubes hull is made up of an alloy we know the vapourize energy requirement off, and the amount of damage the cube took. Depending of the thickness of the hull you use we get something between 1,5 TT and 12 TT.

Start the calcs.

Darth Lucifer · Post by **Darth Lucifer** » 2005-02-17 01:46am

Gustav32Vasa wrote: If you want I can show you the calcs, the cubes hull is made up of an alloy we know the vapourize energy requirement off, and the amount of damage the cube took. Depending of the thickness of the hull you use we get something between 1,5 TT and 12 TT.

Which alloy do you speak of?

Gustav32Vasa · Post by **Gustav32Vasa** » 2005-02-17 01:51am

Mario1470 wrote:
Gustav32Vasa wrote: If you want I can show you the calcs, the cubes hull is made up of an alloy we know the vapourize energy requirement off, and the amount of damage the cube took. Depending of the thickness of the hull you use we get something between 1,5 TT and 12 TT.
Which alloy do you speak of?

I think its called tritanium or something like it. I'm currently searching for quotes and such for my calcs. Its from the TNG TM. Its not canon but since Wong used the TMs calcs on torpedoes I guess it doesnt matter.

Gustav32Vasa · Post by **Gustav32Vasa** » 2005-02-17 01:52am

Kazuaki Shimazaki wrote:
Gustav32Vasa wrote:If you want I can show you the calcs, the cubes hull is made up of an alloy we know the vapourize energy requirement off, and the amount of damage the cube took. Depending of the thickness of the hull you use we get something between 1,5 TT and 12 TT.
Start the calcs.

On their way.

Darth Lucifer · Post by **Darth Lucifer** » 2005-02-17 02:02am

Gustav32Vasa wrote:
Mario1470 wrote:
Gustav32Vasa wrote: If you want I can show you the calcs, the cubes hull is made up of an alloy we know the vapourize energy requirement off, and the amount of damage the cube took. Depending of the thickness of the hull you use we get something between 1,5 TT and 12 TT.
Which alloy do you speak of?
I think its called tritanium or something like it. I'm currently searching for quotes and such for my calcs. Its from the TNG TM. Its not canon but since Wong used the TMs calcs on torpedoes I guess it doesnt matter.

We'll let Darth Wong answer that part about his calcs...

I'll help you search for quotes myself if I can...searching now...but I'm leaving the TNG TM out of this; Borg episodes are where I'm starting.

Gustav32Vasa · Post by **Gustav32Vasa** » 2005-02-17 04:16am

Mario1470 wrote:
Gustav32Vasa wrote:
Mario1470 wrote: Which alloy do you speak of?
I think its called tritanium or something like it. I'm currently searching for quotes and such for my calcs. Its from the TNG TM. Its not canon but since Wong used the TMs calcs on torpedoes I guess it doesnt matter.
We'll let Darth Wong answer that part about his calcs...

I'll help you search for quotes myself if I can...searching now...but I'm leaving the TNG TM out of this; Borg episodes are where I'm starting.

How thick would you say the hull of cubes is?

Darth Lucifer · Post by **Darth Lucifer** » 2005-02-17 04:25am

Gustav32Vasa wrote: How thick would you say the hull of cubes is?

No friggin clue...this Borg quote hunting business is proving to be more difficult than I had previously thought. A lot of the shit regarding data on Borg vessels is non-canon. Or it says nothing about hull materials, Tritanium, etc.

Gustav32Vasa · Post by **Gustav32Vasa** » 2005-02-17 04:29am

Mario1470 wrote:
Gustav32Vasa wrote: How thick would you say the hull of cubes is?
No friggin clue...this Borg quote hunting business is proving to be more difficult than I had previously thought. A lot of the shit regarding data on Borg vessels is non-canon. Or it says nothing about hull materials, Tritanium, etc.

Seven confirms that cubes hull is made up of tritanium(or something like that) in an Voy episode so the material is canon.

Kruk · Post by **Kruk** » 2005-02-17 04:36am

borg scouting cube (5 drones inside) weight 2,5 million tons. I have not made calcs, but it's about 15 feet in dimensions. Scale this up, standard cube is mostly hollow, and you have material density. About properitis.. well, it's another matter