A question of StarWars Tech

[Aaron]

Do you GET hypermatter? Or is it something manufactured? I don't think we've ever seen wars over the control of hypermatter. You'd figure it would be more important than Tibanna gas, not to mention Bacta -- and there HAVE been major engagements (in the EU Novels) fought over those resources.

Much like how antimatter in Star Trek is apparently manufactured. (Though I have no idea how...)

As I understand it, it's retrieved/created/extracted from black holes. Or I might be confused with a fanfic. Hopefully someone more knowledgable about it will come along and tell us.

[Aaron]

This is Mike's page on Imperial power generation. It covers hypermatter, but there is no conclusion on how you get hypermatter. The official literature is probably to vague on it to come up with a definate answer.

[kaikatsu]

I did a quick run of the database. As a general rule their ability to replicate, or not replicate something seems to depend entirely on arbitrary plot devices. If it has a complex name, you can't do it.

At first I was wondering if perhaps all of these new-fangled materials had something in common with, say, subspace physics (when in doubt, find a unifying technology or theme...) but it happens with organic materials too. The one thing that irks me...

If the transporter supposedly disassembles something into its basic atoms, and then reassembles it on the other end why in the hell is it that the replicators can't do that out of a different source of atomic structure? You'd figure the two would be almost identical.

I've always wondered what it would be like to say "Whoops? Riker got killed on an away mission? That's ok, we just stored his pattern in the buffer and we can reassemble him on the pad now and try again."

I think that's where most die hard trekkies get their insane ideas about Star Trek's infrastructure from. The concepts are THERE, but if they were utilized to their full potential, the story would get boring fast.

... this rambling is fast becoming something for another thread...

[Darth Servo]

I did a quick run of the database. As a general rule their ability to replicate, or not replicate something seems to depend entirely on arbitrary plot devices. If it has a complex name, you can't do it.

You think "ribosome" is a complex name?

At first I was wondering if perhaps all of these new-fangled materials had something in common with, say, subspace physics (when in doubt, find a unifying technology or theme...) but it happens with organic materials too. The one thing that irks me...

Indeed. And rain water, latinum and many other non-replicatable substances have nothing to do with subspace either.

If the transporter supposedly disassembles something into its basic atoms, and then reassembles it on the other end why in the hell is it that the replicators can't do that out of a different source of atomic structure? You'd figure the two would be almost identical.

MAybe the transporter doesn't actually work that way?

I've always wondered what it would be like to say "Whoops? Riker got killed on an away mission? That's ok, we just stored his pattern in the buffer and we can reassemble him on the pad now and try again."

The only times duplicate people HAVE been created, some technobabble extra ingredient was added into the mix.

I think that's where most die hard trekkies get their insane ideas about Star Trek's infrastructure from. The concepts are THERE, but if they were utilized to their full potential, the story would get boring fast.

If real writing potential was there, they wouldn't NEED to rely on these technobabble plot devices.

[Darth Wong]

I did a quick run of the database. As a general rule their ability to replicate, or not replicate something seems to depend entirely on arbitrary plot devices.

You realize that the replicator and the transporter are also plot devices, right? Why would you dismiss their limitations as plot devices when the things only exist as plot devices? Hell, the transporter originally wasn't even a plot device; it was an FX cost-cutting device.

[kaikatsu]

You think "ribosome" is a complex name?

Depends on your point of view I suppose. I was refering more to the "element of the week" that shows up on Star Trek.

Indeed. And rain water, latinum and many other non-replicatable substances have nothing to do with subspace either.

Given that the rain water in question -tasted- special -- I can only assume something was IN the water that MADE it special. But like I said, I quickly realized the rules applied to organic substances anyway, like the afore mentioned ribosome, so there's no underlying theme of what can and cannot be replicated; except for the general assumption that complex molecular structures can't. (Which isn't even of itself consistant.)

Maybe the transporter doesn't actually work that way?

One can only assume so. Most literature says they do, but they're not exactly cannonized.

The only times duplicate people HAVE been created, some technobabble extra ingredient was added into the mix.

That doesn't mean I feel better about it...

Why isn't some scientist calling this the "Riker effect", and touting it as proof organic people CAN be copied?

Why isn't the notion of immortality by being stored in a pattern buffer a common idea. "We can't fix it. He's going to die. But what the hell, let's store him in a pattern buffer for a year at a time."

Sure, there was extra technobabble, but they act like they UNDERSTAND it. Maybe not enough to duplicate it, but I can guarantee if I found a way to produce an identical copy of myself by accident, I'd have research grants and invester cheques pouring in -so- fast...

That ONE EPISODE could bankrupt the economy. We KNOW that Latinum can't be replicated, but it CAN be transported, right? If that's the case, and the transporter can cause a duplication... well... can you say rapid inflation?

This is a common theme you see grabbed onto by a Trekkie fanatic. Example: "The Trek Universe has clearly demonstrated the capacity to instantly clone intelligent soldiers. Were this made into a well working technology, the Federation could easily clone soldiers faster than the Empire could."

There's a shitload of ifs, ands, and butts there and I'm by no means saying it's a valid argument. It, like many things in the Trek universe, is left hanging, another one episode wonder. Yet another potential revolution in science and technology shoved away to a single show -- just so that the writers could have Riker see what choices he might have taken.

It's almost painful.

If real writing potential was there, they wouldn't NEED to rely on these technobabble plot devices.

Amen to that...

You realize that the replicator and the transporter are also plot devices, right? Why would you dismiss their limitations as plot devices when the things only exist as plot devices?

Quite true... I'm not sure what you mean by "dismiss." EVERY limitation of an arbitrary science fiction device is a plot device. My gripe is that the ONLY reasoning I can find is a plot device. The idea that you "can't beam through shields without knowing the fundamental frequency" is a good example of a plot device that can be rationalized -- and usually is maintained.

That being said, when I go into science fiction, I generally expect to see a certain amount of consistancy between the plot devices. This is what frustrates me more about Star Trek than anything else: a lot of the ideas, if followed to their logical conclusion, would require a fundamental reworking of the tech base.

Science fiction used to be about coming up with "what if" ideas for technology, and then exploring those to create potential scenarios. Star Trek seems to use "what if" ideas for scenarios, and come up with treknology to explain it.

The results are, as I've been bitching about... messy...

[Silver Jedi]

Do you GET hypermatter? Or is it something manufactured? I don't think we've ever seen wars over the control of hypermatter. You'd figure it would be more important than Tibanna gas, not to mention Bacta -- and there HAVE been major engagements (in the EU Novels) fought over those resources.

While it is more important, it may also be much more abundant.

As I understand it, it's retrieved/created/extracted from black holes. Or I might be confused with a fanfic. Hopefully someone more knowledgable about it will come along and tell us.

This was my first thought too. We may be confusing this with one of the AOTC:ICS notes on gravity altering technology; apparently the "gravitoactive constituents of these devices are subnuclear knots of space-time made in enourmous, unmanned power refineries encompassing black holes.". Called power refineries, but used for repulsors . While we're on the subject of hypermatter (not to hijack the thread) I also noticed this interesting tidbit

Hyperdrives adjust faster-than-light "hypermatter" particles to allow a jump to light-speed without changing the complex mass and energy of the ship.