wow, the star destroyer

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2002-12-20 07:24pm

And NOW we're crossing into arguments as old as the pyramids themselves, alas this argument has long been dealt with. Look it up.

XaLEv · Post by **XaLEv** » 2002-12-20 07:25pm

porkboy696 wrote: really? u know what? i saw the empire hits back, and in that one, i remember a scene where there is a big fleet of star destroyers is going thru an asteroid field, and one hits a star destroyer and destroys the top part of it? anyone else remember that? i don't think it was damaged by "concentrated rebel fire", so with those powerful shields that are like 70 trillion zw's, shouldn't it have reflected it or something? just a little confusing, well, thanks

The shields of an ISD are far weaker than seventy trillion zettawatts.

porkboy696 · Post by **porkboy696** » 2002-12-20 07:26pm

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:You misunderstand, friend. If we were to, say, scale down a Death Star superlaser at its bare minumum, you would still have a couple billion gigajoules of energy behind those shots. From what we've seen of Trek, that would be insanley impressive.

see, pal, what im confused about is where u get the facts of "couple billion gigajoules" no one has yet to tell me if that is speculation or actual published fact, thats all i want to know and where it's at so i can have a look, thank u

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2002-12-20 07:29pm

It takes X amount of energy to destroy a planet, ala Death Star. When we scale down X amount of energy to the size of an ISD it results in guns that have roughly a couple billion gigajoules of energy behind them. This is fact.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2002-12-20 07:35pm

Did this guy even know what he was getting into when he registered here? Next thing you know he'll be saying that ISDs don't have a chance since they use "lasers" and that the Enterprise can deploy 2 or 3 shuttles to fend off a wing of TIE fighters.

Kazuaki Shimazaki · Post by **Kazuaki Shimazaki** » 2002-12-20 07:36pm

porkboy696 wrote:really? u know what? i saw the empire hits back, and in that one, i remember a scene where there is a big fleet of star destroyers is going thru an asteroid field, and one hits a star destroyer and destroys the top part of it? anyone else remember that? i don't think it was damaged by "concentrated rebel fire", so with those powerful shields that are like 70 trillion zw's, shouldn't it have reflected it or something? just a little confusing, well, thanks

Well, Porkboy, I suggest you take a break from posting further for at least 24 hours. Actually read www.stardestroyer.net. Successfully finishing that read alone is probably worth 6 months of you "learning on the job" like this.

For this specific question. Go to the Hate Mail page. Read the debates with Damien Hailey. FIVE rounds of action where they discuss this very asteroid problem.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-12-20 07:39pm

I smell a rat.

I hope the moderators aren't pretending to be trolls again.

porkboy696 · Post by **porkboy696** » 2002-12-20 07:39pm

is anyone gonna answer my question? i dont have time to go fishing thru this site, can someone just tell me if the facts that i'm being given are concrete and published somewhere or pure speculation? thats all i want to know then ill be on my way

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2002-12-20 07:43pm

Ok listen Porky, you must use LOGIC. That is, use what you have in your mind. One can transcend the knowledge of published literature if one uses his mind to answer the questions.

If I have a planet destroying gun at a bare minimum it will require X amount of energy to accomplish it's planet-killing task.. If we scale the energy of this planet killer to reactor output of a vessel a fraction of its size we WILL get reasonable calcs. No kidding.

Now look at my previous post and do the math. It ISNT that difficult.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2002-12-20 07:46pm

porkboy696 wrote:is anyone gonna answer my question? i dont have time to go fishing thru this site, can someone just tell me if the facts that i'm being given are concrete and published somewhere or pure speculation? thats all i want to know then ill be on my way

Just go out and buy a copy of the Episode II: Incredible Cross Sections. It is an official publication.

porkboy696 · Post by **porkboy696** » 2002-12-20 07:48pm

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:Ok listen Porky, you must use LOGIC. That is, use what you have in your mind. One can transcend the knowledge of published literature if one uses his mind to answer the questions.

If I have a planet destroying gun at a bare minimum it will require X amount of energy to accomplish it's planet-killing task.. If we scale the energy of this planet killer to reactor output of a vessel a fraction of its size we WILL get reasonable calcs. No kidding.

Now look at my previous post and do the math. It ISNT that difficult.

so are u saying if we take the power of the genesis weapon, and scale the energy of this powerful weapon to the reactor output of a vessel, the star trek ships will be as powerful as a fraction of the genesis weapon?

porkboy696 · Post by **porkboy696** » 2002-12-20 07:49pm

Kamakazie Sith wrote:
porkboy696 wrote:is anyone gonna answer my question? i dont have time to go fishing thru this site, can someone just tell me if the facts that i'm being given are concrete and published somewhere or pure speculation? thats all i want to know then ill be on my way
Just go out and buy a copy of the Episode II: Incredible Cross Sections. It is an official publication.

thank u kamakazie, this garden gnome fellow wasn't helping at all. does it have the star trek facts too that u claim to know as well?

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2002-12-20 07:50pm

Now your getting on my nerves. The genesis weapon was a rare and unusual tech that had no relation to any Trek weapon ever seen.

The Death Star on the other hand used a LASER. A weapon that is conveniently located on the ISD and most other SW craft.

USE YOUR FUCKING BRAIN

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2002-12-20 07:52pm

I'm calling this a professional trolling job. It is not a geek and not know the right title to the Empire Strikes Back.

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2002-12-20 07:53pm

porkboy696 wrote:thank u kamakazie, this garden gnome fellow wasn't helping at all. does it have the star trek facts too that u claim to know as well?

Oh? I thought you weren't interested in offical literature? After all you did only JUST read SW vs ST in 5 min did you not? He says right out in the open that the first two sets of calcs are official. Or did you just look at the bigs numbers and decide to discard the whole thing as rubbish, without really reading it? Sounds about the jist of it to me.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2002-12-20 08:10pm

porkboy696 wrote:
Kamakazie Sith wrote:
porkboy696 wrote:is anyone gonna answer my question? i dont have time to go fishing thru this site, can someone just tell me if the facts that i'm being given are concrete and published somewhere or pure speculation? thats all i want to know then ill be on my way
Just go out and buy a copy of the Episode II: Incredible Cross Sections. It is an official publication.
thank u kamakazie, this garden gnome fellow wasn't helping at all. does it have the star trek facts too that u claim to know as well?

There is no official for ST. There is only the episodes, and the movies.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2002-12-20 08:15pm

OK, I have to side with Laird and such here, give the newbies a break, you really are acting like Xenophobes.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2002-12-20 08:38pm

thought so, thank u sir. i knew those facts couldn't have been true, i mean, i saw return of the jedi, and that tiny little a-wing ship rammed the bridge of that larger star destroyer, and destroyed it. if the shields are as powerful as that article said, it shouda stopped it. well, thanks for clearing that up. i say schimitar wins but not by a whole

She shields are that powerful, they wher in that asteroid field for days, and they had to lower shields to send a holonet transmission to vader, when you are accelerating at thousands of Gs and an iron-nickle asteroid hundreds of meters across hits you, you will be suffering damage.

A photon or uantim torp is only so big, it can only carry so much anti-matter for use in its weapons. And from weapon calcs we(and just about everyone else) has come to the conclusion that photon torps are foughly 64 mt and quantum torps are 128 mt. Compare this to the canon figures of 200 isotons for a photon torp(yes that is 200 tons of tnt, as opposed to the 64 MEGATONS of tnt) which would you prefer?

See the AOTC ICS for official numbers on medium turbolasers. 200 GIGATONS. and those are common capship weapons, heavy turbolasers are on the order of 1 TERATON. No trek ship has a chance

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2002-12-20 08:53pm

Alyrium Denryle wrote:
thought so, thank u sir. i knew those facts couldn't have been true, i mean, i saw return of the jedi, and that tiny little a-wing ship rammed the bridge of that larger star destroyer, and destroyed it. if the shields are as powerful as that article said, it shouda stopped it. well, thanks for clearing that up. i say schimitar wins but not by a whole
She shields are that powerful, they wher in that asteroid field for days, and they had to lower shields to send a holonet transmission to vader, when you are accelerating at thousands of Gs and an iron-nickle asteroid hundreds of meters across hits you, you will be suffering damage.

A photon or uantim torp is only so big, it can only carry so much anti-matter for use in its weapons. And from weapon calcs we(and just about everyone else) has come to the conclusion that photon torps are foughly 64 mt and quantum torps are 128 mt. Compare this to the canon figures of 200 isotons for a photon torp(yes that is 200 tons of tnt, as opposed to the 64 MEGATONS of tnt) which would you prefer?

See the AOTC ICS for official numbers on medium turbolasers. 200 GIGATONS. and those are common capship weapons, heavy turbolasers are on the order of 1 TERATON. No trek ship has a chance

No determination has ever been made that isoton means equal to one ton of TNT.

Post by **Beowulf** » 2002-12-20 08:59pm

A newbie! *thwap* Welcome! Read the main site, and try to use logic!

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2002-12-20 09:45pm

Porkboy's posts in a nutshell:

wow, i just saw nemesis, and the schimitar is a very powerful ship, i always thought a star destroyer would have a tough time with a romulan warbird (which is almost the same size as a ISD) and the enterprise, but there is no way a ISD could even take the schimitar. the cloak, 50 disruptor cannons, 2 dozen torpedo bays, a backup shield system, damn, what do u think of a star destroyer vs. schimitar, i say schimitar by a whole lot.

1) He thinks that an ISD is about equal in power to a Romulan warbird because they are about the same size. This is wrong because the size of the ship has NOTHING to do with how powerful it is. S8472 ships are smaller than borg cubes, yet they are more powerful.

2) He lists all the Schimitar's capabilities but never says how powerful they are. On modern day soldier with a machine gun can take out hundreds of stick wielding cavemen.

i ain't no expert, it just seemed to be the schimitar was a powerful ship and caused a lot of damage to 3 powerful vessels. whenever i watch star wars, all i see is this huge star destroyer having problems destroying a tiny ship like the millenuim falcon. well, i didn't know the star destroyer was the much more powerful than the schimitar, damn. how do u know this by the way?

1) You ignore the fact that in ANH and TESB, the Star Destroyers were obviously trying to CAPTURE the Falcon, not destroy it. In ROTJ, the Star Destroyers were shooting down rebel fighters right and left.

2) You assume that it is just as easy to hit a tiny 40 meter target like the falcon as it would be to hid a 600 meter GCS or a 1200 meter Warbird. Please justify this assumption.

3) We know that Star Destroyers are more powerful than the Scimitar because they have accomplished feats requiring greater power, like melting the surface of planets in some of the novels (Base Delta Zero operation) while a GCS needs maximum fire just to drill a hole in the crust.

wow, i just read the "star wars vs. star trek in five minutes" very interesting, now are all those facts about megawats and 3.5 jouldsfaggots or whatever concrete published facts? have both the star trek universe and the star wars universe come out with those facts? that was real interesting.

The 200 gigaton figure for Star Wars is an official Star Wars fact from Episode 2 Incredible Cross Sections. However, if you had read the entire document, you would learn the page gives figures from the official literature AND calculations of observed events in both universes from the movies and TV episodes.

i thought so, thank u sir. i knew those facts couldn't have been true, i mean, i saw return of the jedi, and that tiny little a-wing ship rammed the bridge of that larger star destroyer, and destroyed it. if the shields are as powerful as that article said, it shouda stopped it. well, thanks for clearing that up. i say schimitar wins but not by a whole lot.

You totally missed the point. They ARE true figures for the respective universes.
And how could you possibly conclude that the A-wing "destroyed" the Executer? The bridge was destroyed, but the ship itself was still intact and fighting. It has the bad luck of crashing into the Death Star.

really? u know what? i saw the empire hits back, and in that one, i remember a scene where there is a big fleet of star destroyers is going thru an asteroid field, and one hits a star destroyer and destroys the top part of it? anyone else remember that? i don't think it was damaged by "concentrated rebel fire", so with those powerful shields that are like 70 trillion zw's, shouldn't it have reflected it or something? just a little confusing, well, thanks

1) The name of the film is "The Empire Strikes Back", not hits.

2) Prove that that one asteroid was the only collision in the chase.

3) Prove that the Star Destroyer in question had not been damaged in the attack on Hoth.

4) They had to lower their shields to holotransmit with Vader.

5) Quantify exactly how much damage was done to the Star Destroyer by that asteroid. The view of bridge structure is completely blocked by the asteroid debris and the scene changes before the debris disperses so you cannot say that the top was destroyed.

can someone just tell me if the facts that i'm being given are concrete and published somewhere or pure speculation? thats all i want to know then ill be on my way

The 200 gigaton statement for Star Wars firepower is a concrete published figure in Star Wars, Episode 2 Incredible Cross Sections.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2002-12-20 09:47pm

porkboy696 wrote:so are u saying if we take the power of the genesis weapon, and scale the energy of this powerful weapon to the reactor output of a vessel, the star trek ships will be as powerful as a fraction of the genesis weapon?

Except the power of the Genesis weapon is ZERO. It requires absolutely no energy to cause a nebula to colapse into a planet.

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi · Post by **Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi** » 2002-12-20 11:35pm

porkboy696 wrote:
Kamakazie Sith wrote:
porkboy696 wrote:is anyone gonna answer my question? i dont have time to go fishing thru this site, can someone just tell me if the facts that i'm being given are concrete and published somewhere or pure speculation? thats all i want to know then ill be on my way
Just go out and buy a copy of the Episode II: Incredible Cross Sections. It is an official publication.
thank u kamakazie, this garden gnome fellow wasn't helping at all. does it have the star trek facts too that u claim to know as well?

No, but the ST power levels in the SW vs. ST in 5 minutes part of the site were taken from the ST Technical Manual, and other calculations were taken from the episodes of TOS, TNG, Voyager, and DS9.

As you can see, the Slave I has an aranment as powerful as the Enterprise-E. In case you were wondering, the gigaton-elevel seismic charges were from the asteroid field scene in AotC, where each of them chopped up all of the asteroids in its several-km radius.

CmdrWilkens · Post by **CmdrWilkens** » 2002-12-20 11:51pm

porkboy696 wrote:really? u know what? i saw the empire hits back, and in that one, i remember a scene where there is a big fleet of star destroyers is going thru an asteroid field, and one hits a star destroyer and destroys the top part of it? anyone else remember that? i don't think it was damaged by "concentrated rebel fire", so with those powerful shields that are like 70 trillion zw's, shouldn't it have reflected it or something? just a little confusing, well, thanks

Since it appears no one directly responded to this,and as I spent considerable time on the subject, I thought I mgiht tell you what is going on.

1) The ISD had its shields down. We know from multiple sources that using the HoloNet requires shields to be lowered. The ISD captains were on a HoloNet conference with Vader ergo they had their shields down.

2) the ISD was hit but no part of it was more than damaged, in other words teh entire bridge tower was still intact. If you watch the scene slowed down, so that you can actually see everything that happens, rather than losing yourself in the fast paced visuals, you can clearly see the outline of the bridge tower, unmolested, moving against the background of the Executor

Basically the multi hundred KT imapct was enough to create sparks and shwoers but not really damage the ISD even though it was unshielded at the time which creates a lower limit for hull strength which exceeds teh sustained firepower of a couple dozen Type X phasers at minimum.

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-12-21 01:23am

This is obviously an anti-troll drill. Will the mod responsible please stand up?

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

wow, the star destroyer

Look Porkboy