Minimum strength boarding party

[Kamakazie Sith]

From time to time you catch the ST crew using their heads against boarders. Well mostly against themselves. When Data got his homing signal he shut down life support to the bridge, and used a rotating forcefield to protect him as he walked to the transporter room. Those incidents are few and far between.

I guess it depends on what day you send your commandoes in...

[Uraniun235]

Now, that I remember... In ST III, the Klingons took command of the Enterprise, and they were only... 6 or 8, nevermind, more than 4, at least. Of course, the ship was deserted, but they didn't know that, and went heavily armed (these where back in the good old days... ), directly for the bridge, after being beamed aboard. Fortunately, they didn't stay there for long... BUM!

Anyway, a normal platoon of 12-15 would be able to secure the ship.

Remember that the Klingons also underestimated them. They expected light resistance because it is a ship full of weak humans who would be cowering at the very presense of Klingons.

There's also the little thing about Kirk having surrendered to them.

Mike, what happens when the bridge throws up a couple of forcefields on one of the decks and seals the two SAS commandos in? Hell, if they got caught in a corner section of a deck, they'd be in a fairly tight space. (IIRC, such a scene happened in a Voyager episode)

[Uraniun235]

I guess it depends on what day you send your commandoes in...

Depends on who's writing the episode.

[Shinova]

Even though this is Feds we're talking about, I'd send in enough people to overwhelm the Feds by a 3:2 ratio.

[Sea Skimmer]

Now, that I remember... In ST III, the Klingons took command of the Enterprise, and they were only... 6 or 8, nevermind, more than 4, at least. Of course, the ship was deserted, but they didn't know that, and went heavily armed (these where back in the good old days... ), directly for the bridge, after being beamed aboard. Fortunately, they didn't stay there for long... BUM!

Anyway, a normal platoon of 12-15 would be able to secure the ship.

Remember that the Klingons also underestimated them. They expected light resistance because it is a ship full of weak humans who would be cowering at the very presense of Klingons.

There's also the little thing about Kirk having surrendered to them.

Mike, what happens when the bridge throws up a couple of forcefields on one of the decks and seals the two SAS commandos in? Hell, if they got caught in a corner section of a deck, they'd be in a fairly tight space. (IIRC, such a scene happened in a Voyager episode)

Then one needs only to shoot up the wall a bit. People have disabled force fields by simply ripping out a panel, within the field.

In any case only rarely are such fields used against boarding parties. Its only ever against main characters that they seem to get much use.

[Uraniun235]

Then one needs only to shoot up the wall a bit. People have disabled force fields by simply ripping out a panel, within the field.

How long before they run out of ammo?

[omegaLancer]

Not to belittle the security team of a federation starship, it seem that Khan and his little group of genetic supermen basically took over the ship unarmed.

True they were genetically superior, but the security team had the advantage of number and weapons.

I think a several small team ( 5 each), striking at the bridge and engineering could easily take over a starship.

[Darth Wong]

From time to time you catch the ST crew using their heads against boarders. Well mostly against themselves. When Data got his homing signal he shut down life support to the bridge, and used a rotating forcefield to protect him as he walked to the transporter room. Those incidents are few and far between.

Actually, this demonstrates their astounding incompetence. The entire security team of the Enterprise was helpless against one man!

All Klingons carry a device to short out a forcefield (we saw it used in TNG). The fact that Federation security teams were unable to do the same, or think of shooting out the wall panels, indicates a level of tactical stupidity on their part which is simply inconceivable. They just stand there looking helpless, as if it's completely impossible to overcome a forcefield. Were they worried about wrecking the lovely decor?

I guess it depends on what day you send your commandoes in...

Hardly. Roga Danar and Data both showed that a single skilled operator can easily overcome the entire security forces of the Enterprise. I have still not seen a single example of skilled Fed security teams.

[Darth Wong]

Then one needs only to shoot up the wall a bit. People have disabled force fields by simply ripping out a panel, within the field.

How long before they run out of ammo?

Longer than it takes to get to the bridge. It's likely that you can shoot out a whole corridor's forcefields by taking out the circuits in any one spot (the only reason to have the circuits running along the vulnerable walls is the convenience of series-wiring them in whole segments), and if an elbow can do it in one shot, it shouldn't take more than one or two shots from a rifle to knock out those same circuits. I'd think they might even use their handguns for that purpose.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Actually, this demonstrates their astounding incompetence. The entire security team of the Enterprise was helpless against one man!

All Klingons carry a device to short out a forcefield (we saw it used in TNG). The fact that Federation security teams were unable to do the same, or think of shooting out the wall panels, indicates a level of tactical stupidity on their part which is simply inconceivable. They just stand there looking helpless, as if it's completely impossible to overcome a forcefield. Were they worried about wrecking the lovely decor?

Data had intimate knowledge of the E-D computer system, and had also secured access to the main computer. Though your right, that episode that shows it's possible to take out a forcefield by smashing the panel next to it kinda ruins the whole concept. What in gods name were the writers thinking?

Hardly. Roga Danar and Data both showed that a single skilled operator can easily overcome the entire security forces of the Enterprise. I have still not seen a single example of skilled Fed security teams.

I can't argue with that. Fed security teams have been shit, the ones from TNG looked like helpless children when confronted with raging Klingons or some other raging alien. I was thinking more along the lines that the crew of a SCS could isolate the commandoes by using forcefields. However, if the commandos have such detailed knowledge of the ship that they know of shooting out the panels will shut down the field then I guess there isn't much the crew can do.

[Joe Momma]

I was thinking more along the lines that the crew of a SCS could isolate the commandoes by using forcefields. However, if the commandos have such detailed knowledge of the ship that they know of shooting out the panels will shut down the field then I guess there isn't much the crew can do.

Even if they don't have knowledge that detailed, they might well figure it out on the fly. DF and SAS guys in particular are selected for their ability to take initiative (among other things). If forcefields popped up in front and behind, it probably wouldn't take long at all for them to start yanking open wall panels to see if they could make an escape that way or just cause mayhem.

While we're beating the deceased equine of Starfleet security, did it ever bother anyone else that in most of the episodes where a security team was summoned, they arrived on-scene at a comfortable walk? Jesus, even Chief Wiggum on The Simpsons has a better response time. I remember being shocked the one time I saw some of them actually running to get somewhere.

They never seem to use site-to-site transport either, just as they never seem to try it against boarders.

-- Joe Momma

[Kamakazie Sith]

I was thinking more along the lines that the crew of a SCS could isolate the commandoes by using forcefields. However, if the commandos have such detailed knowledge of the ship that they know of shooting out the panels will shut down the field then I guess there isn't much the crew can do.

Even if they don't have knowledge that detailed, they might well figure it out on the fly. DF and SAS guys in particular are selected for their ability to take initiative (among other things). If forcefields popped up in front and behind, it probably wouldn't take long at all for them to start yanking open wall panels to see if they could make an escape that way or just cause mayhem.

While we're beating the deceased equine of Starfleet security, did it ever bother anyone else that in most of the episodes where a security team was summoned, they arrived on-scene at a comfortable walk? Jesus, even Chief Wiggum on The Simpsons has a better response time. I remember being shocked the one time I saw some of them actually running to get somewhere.

They never seem to use site-to-site transport either, just as they never seem to try it against boarders.

-- Joe Momma

They actually did a site-to-site transport in a Voyager episode. They beamed in some SF security to apprehend Kim.

[Setzer]

Now, that I remember... In ST III, the Klingons took command of the Enterprise, and they were only... 6 or 8, nevermind, more than 4, at least. Of course, the ship was deserted, but they didn't know that, and went heavily armed (these where back in the good old days... ), directly for the bridge, after being beamed aboard. Fortunately, they didn't stay there for long... BUM!

Anyway, a normal platoon of 12-15 would be able to secure the ship.

A PLATOON? how big is Portugal's military, if their idea of a Platoon is 12 people. DO they use 4 3-man squads?

[Setzer]

Someone suggested to me setting a dozen or so ewoks loose might do the trick....if nothing else they'd likely trash they warp core and blow the thing up....something to do with animal fur in the 'quantum-phase-inhibiting-manifold-sticky-back-plastic-frequency-tachyon-deflector'.....

Personally with the degree of skill routinely demonstrated by ST security teams I'd be content with three squads of 4 to control the ship. Send one team to the bridge, another to take control of the engineering section and then have the last team go cleaning up....
I'd prefer a slightly larger inventory of equipment....I think flamethrowers might be an amusing way of dealing with them....we might even get to find out if the standard pj's comply with fire saftey standards.....


Keevan Colton
- Former Prince of the Underempire, SWC.
"Saltan valoramosa n teval mord..."

POKE!

[Darth Servo]

Longer than it takes to get to the bridge. It's likely that you can shoot out a whole corridor's forcefields by taking out the circuits in any one spot (the only reason to have the circuits running along the vulnerable walls is the convenience of series-wiring them in whole segments)...

Its amazing that theose Trekkies didn't notice that after Data, O'brien and Troi escaped that one forcefield trap, the E-D crew didn't try it again IIRC.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Longer than it takes to get to the bridge. It's likely that you can shoot out a whole corridor's forcefields by taking out the circuits in any one spot (the only reason to have the circuits running along the vulnerable walls is the convenience of series-wiring them in whole segments)...

Its amazing that theose Trekkies didn't notice that after Data, O'brien and Troi escaped that one forcefield trap, the E-D crew didn't try it again IIRC.

Why would they try it again? So they could get another forcefield grid knocked offline?

Also, IIRC wasn't there something special about Data that allowed him to override the forcefield. He didn't simply smash a panel did he?

[Darth Servo]

Longer than it takes to get to the bridge. It's likely that you can shoot out a whole corridor's forcefields by taking out the circuits in any one spot (the only reason to have the circuits running along the vulnerable walls is the convenience of series-wiring them in whole segments)...

Its amazing that theose Trekkies didn't notice that after Data, O'brien and Troi escaped that one forcefield trap, the E-D crew didn't try it again IIRC.

Also, IIRC wasn't there something special about Data that allowed him to override the forcefield. He didn't simply smash a panel did he?

Yes, that is precisely what he did. He hit the wall panel with his elbo and the shield shut down.

[Darth Yoshi]

Not to belittle the security team of a federation starship, it seem that Khan and his little group of genetic supermen basically took over the ship unarmed.

True they were genetically superior, but the security team had the advantage of number and weapons.

I think a several small team ( 5 each), striking at the bridge and engineering could easily take over a starship.

Actually, only Khan was genetically engineered. Remember near the end of TWOK, the Reliant gets hit hard, killing everyone but Khan. The helmsman says something along the lines of "you truely are a superior..." Although to be fair, Khan did have Chekov and the captain working for him.

[Darth Servo]

Not to belittle the security team of a federation starship, it seem that Khan and his little group of genetic supermen basically took over the ship unarmed.

True they were genetically superior, but the security team had the advantage of number and weapons.

I think a several small team ( 5 each), striking at the bridge and engineering could easily take over a starship.

Actually, only Khan was genetically engineered. Remember near the end of TWOK, the Reliant gets hit hard, killing everyone but Khan. The helmsman says something along the lines of "you truely are a superior..." Although to be fair, Khan did have Chekov and the captain working for him.

Actually in 'Space Seed', we are told that Kahn and about 80 other genetically engineered supermen fled Earth aboard the Botany Bay. So the people with him WERE genetically engineered.

[Anarchist Bunny]

Depends on what boards them.

A predator could do it, so could a single dark templar. A single Gremlin could probly bring the ship down. A 4 or 5 normal stormies could do it, and 1 or 2 of the better ones.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Depends on what boards them.

A predator could do it, so could a single dark templar. A single Gremlin could probly bring the ship down. A 4 or 5 normal stormies could do it, and 1 or 2 of the better ones.

4-5 normal stormies?

I dunno they can't shoot worth shit. Neither can SF security, but there are a lot more SF security. For stormies to do it I think you would need at least as many of them as there are SF security.

[Darth Servo]

Depends on what boards them.

A predator could do it, so could a single dark templar. A single Gremlin could probly bring the ship down. A 4 or 5 normal stormies could do it, and 1 or 2 of the better ones.

4-5 normal stormies?

I dunno they can't shoot worth shit. Neither can SF security, but there are a lot more SF security. For stormies to do it I think you would need at least as many of them as there are SF security.

On one of Mike's hate-mail entries a rabid Trekkie tries to bring up this myth and Mike tells him that the Stormies in those situations were likely under orders to shoot to miss.

[Master of Ossus]

Depends on what boards them.

A predator could do it, so could a single dark templar. A single Gremlin could probly bring the ship down. A 4 or 5 normal stormies could do it, and 1 or 2 of the better ones.

4-5 normal stormies?

I dunno they can't shoot worth shit. Neither can SF security, but there are a lot more SF security. For stormies to do it I think you would need at least as many of them as there are SF security.

A couple things about this. First of all, the stormtroopers need not score direct hits to kill or maim SF personnel. Proximity hits will create shrapnel, which the UFP uniforms will not be able to stop. Moreover, stormtrooper accuracy is quite good--as demonstrated in RotJ, when stormtroopers score hits at distances nearing one hundred meters, with little preparation time. The comparative inaccuracy of stormtroopers in ANH and ESB is likely due to the situations that they were in. During ANH, they must have been under orders to allow the Princess and the rebels to escape or the Falcon's homing device would have been worthless. In ESB, during the Cloud City engagement, they disabled the Falcon's hyperdrive, apparently so that the Rebels would be able to make it into orbit but not escape the Executor. That the stormtroopers were able to stand their ground and put up a good show, knowing that their lives were at risk but also that they could not return fire, demonstrates a spectacular discipline unrivalled by any modern military.

[Master of Ossus]

BTW, no stormtrooper has ever missed a shot at less than 5 meters, which was shown several times in ST: Nemesis by both UFP crew members and Reman troops.

[Darth Wong]

It should also be pointed out that hand phasers may even be incapable of hurting a stormtrooper. Look at the light packing crates they use as cover during combat scenes in "Too Short a Season" and various DS9 episodes, and compare them to stormie armour.