My opinion of SB was just demolished

[His Divine Shadow]

All I will say is that if you think SB.com and the VS forum has gone down hill then thank your living stars that it isn't STGN, remember them?

Yes, Ladiesman from over there has come to SB as of late.

[Kahlis]

Hmmmm, looks like I have a new bunny to compete with, oh well, my territory is well marked around here.

Quarrel and die.

HBMC:
You overestimate Shadow's debating ability. Greatly.

Mayhem:

Who knows, maybe if I hadn't gone poof for over a year, I could have helped keep the Trekkie ordes at bay... but alas.

Same here. Oh well.

[Alyeska]

I think it's rather intriguing how Alyeska can be so ignorant, so close-minded, and so petty when debating ST vs SW, yet be so like Mike in debating creationism and religion in general. He's one of the few ardant atheists on SB, and he tends to do a damn good job standing up to the fundies on the board (like Bryan).

I don't know if you have noticed, but I have been avoiding debating ST vs SW like the plague recently. I disagree with a great many of you, and I leave it at that now. Rather what I have been doing in the ST vs SW department is giving my opinion on one side or anothers technical capabilities. Talking about SW fighters, ST fleet sizes, accuracy, etc... Everything but actually debating the VS part of it. And I have been sticking to relatively "accepted" values areas as well. Firepower on either side is still being argued over (though SW seems to be higher is better style arguments), so I tend to stay out of those as well. If I ever get a copy of some of these tech manuals or tech guides that everyones quoting from, I might venture a little out again, but without proper information to debate from, I'm sitting on the ST vs SW sidelines when it comes to the core of the VS debate.

As for the Athiest bit, you should see some of the battles I have had over there. Seang31 (probably calls himself Seang32 now), Soldier, and WAL are the worst examples of fundies you will ever meet.

[Antediluvian]

I remember Wal, he's a major fundie asshole, and full of shit, to boot.

[Eleas]

All I will say is that if you think SB.com and the VS forum has gone down hill then thank your living stars that it isn't STGN, remember them?

Yes, Ladiesman from over there has come to SB as of late.

That transition must have been unpleasant for him. *smirks evilly*

[Eleas]

Read yourself:
http://kier.3dfrontier.com/forums/showt ... tid=846461

Damn, I love that. He's getting attacked by both Warsies and rational Trekkies.

Actually, I was appalled reading it. SB really does have a shitload of idiots. I'm sorry if this offends anyone, but the general consensus seems to be that DarkStar is somehow a better debater than Mike for his ability to curb his tongue.

That's fucking bullshit. Not only is DarkStar a master of the ancient Timsult arts, but he's very capable of breaking out the flames when his goads and condescensions fail. But the most damning fact is that this is a debate!

Let's take a generic VS statement just to see how a debate might be conducted.

"Lucas is dumb and doesn't know what he is talking about. That is why Turbolaser are not laser."

Now, we can answer this in any number of ways:

1. "I'm sorry, but you're in the wrong here. You're not following the guidelines for the debate. We treat the movies as documentaries, and George Lucas' intent has no bearing on the matter."
2. "I'm sorry, but you're wrong."
3. "You idiot. You're not following the guidelines for the debate. We treat the movies as documentaries, and George Lucas' intent has no bearing on the matter. What a fucking retard."
4. "You idiot. You're obviously wrong."

What am I saying here? That statement 1 and 3 are equally valid in a debate. Statement 2 and 4 differ only because the author employs an Ad Hominem in the latter. They are, however, examples of equally poor debating.

I reiterate: to confuse manners with debating skills is just pathetic, and the linked page was replete with such nonsense.

[Alyeska]

Read yourself:
http://kier.3dfrontier.com/forums/showt ... tid=846461

Damn, I love that. He's getting attacked by both Warsies and rational Trekkies.

Actually, I was appalled reading it. SB really does have a shitload of idiots. I'm sorry if this offends anyone, but the general consensus seems to be that DarkStar is somehow a better debater than Mike for his ability to curb his tongue.

That's fucking bullshit. Not only is DarkStar a master of the ancient Timsult arts, but he's very capable of breaking out the flames when his goads and condescensions fail. But the most damning fact is that this is a debate!

Let's take a generic VS statement just to see how a debate might be conducted.

"Lucas is dumb and doesn't know what he is talking about. That is why Turbolaser are not laser."

Now, we can answer this in any number of ways:

1. "I'm sorry, but you're in the wrong here. You're not following the guidelines for the debate. We treat the movies as documentaries, and George Lucas' intent has no bearing on the matter."
2. "I'm sorry, but you're wrong."
3. "You idiot. You're not following the guidelines for the debate. We treat the movies as documentaries, and George Lucas' intent has no bearing on the matter. What a fucking retard."
4. "You idiot. You're obviously wrong."

What am I saying here? That statement 1 and 3 are equally valid in a debate. Statement 2 and 4 differ only because the author employs an Ad Hominem in the latter. They are, however, examples of equally poor debating.

I reiterate: to confuse manners with debating skills is just pathetic, and the linked page was replete with such nonsense.

The problem is when you inflame the debate with rudness, it provides justification (valid or not) to one side proving that the other side is wrong. It is a common and well known fact that when both sides start to yell and scream at eachother, neither side will agree on much of anything. It doesn't mater who won the debate because both sides will be pissed off enough that they will stop listening to eachothers arguments (hence you will have rationale people who become hard headed once angered) and both sides will claim victory. Emotionally flammed debates might be interpreted by outside observers, but the particpants of the debate will come away from it with a poisoned opinion about eachother. I am not saying being polite with Darkstar will make him more clear headed, but that with other people being polite will make them less apt to make mistakes and acknowledge defeat or concede certain issues. That said, I typically don't concede things to people who insult me in a debate, but have condeded more then once to debaters who countered my ideas and theories rationally without heated emotion.

Being polite doesn't change who wins the debate, being polite makes both participants more likely to acknowledge mistakes and be willing to debate in the future. That is not a gaurantee, but rather a stastical probability (hence you get the occassional debater like Omicron Theta who ignores everything you say that he disagrees with)

[Darth Wong]

Being polite doesn't change who wins the debate, being polite makes both participants more likely to acknowledge mistakes and be willing to debate in the future. That is not a gaurantee, but rather a stastical probability (hence you get the occassional debater like Omicron Theta who ignores everything you say that he disagrees with)

Yes, but you can tell when someone is a fucking idiot and will never respond to any kind of logic, so it's more fun to start flaming him. Darkstar is a prime example, but he's not the only one; your old buddies E1701 and BigBryan are others.

And who the hell thinks Darkstar can curb his tongue? The guy is one of the most insulting people I've ever run across. The key distinction with Darkstar is that he doesn't insult you while IDENTIFYING SOME MISTAKE YOU'VE MADE; he simply insults you for the sake of insulting you.

[TheDarkling]

Yet another Wong Love-in thread http://kier.3dfrontier.com/forums/showt ... adid=35565 .

They really dont like him over there do they?

[Darth Wong]

Yet another Wong Love-in thread http://kier.3dfrontier.com/forums/showt ... adid=35565 .

They really dont like him over there do they?

Creationists hate me too. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

[TheDarkling]

Dont creationists hate everyone who isnt a creationist ?

It always seems odd to me when they call people evolutionists instead of reasonable/intelligent/not an idiot.

[Darth Wong]

Dont creationists hate everyone who isnt a creationist ? It always seems odd to me when they call people evolutionists instead of reasonable/intelligent/not an idiot.

Yeah, they're funny that way. They like to tell themselves that evolution is a "religion" instead of "the only workable scientific theory, and so fucking obvious that only a blithering idiot or religious fanatic could possibly see it any other way".

PS. Isn't BigBryan a creationist? I was under the impression that there's quite a few of them over there.

[Alyeska]

Dont creationists hate everyone who isnt a creationist ? It always seems odd to me when they call people evolutionists instead of reasonable/intelligent/not an idiot.

Yeah, they're funny that way. They like to tell themselves that evolution is a "religion" instead of "the only workable scientific theory, and so fucking obvious that only a blithering idiot or religious fanatic could possibly see it any other way".

PS. Isn't BigBryan a creationist? I was under the impression that there's quite a few of them over there.

Not exactly a creationist, but he wants to ban all booze and porn.

[Alyeska]

Yet another Wong Love-in thread http://kier.3dfrontier.com/forums/showt ... adid=35565 .

They really dont like him over there do they?

Interesting. Over half the people who posted in that thread did not say anything remotely similar to disliking Mike. Two people posted that they dislike Mike, but also have a low opinion of Darkstar as well. I don't see anything worth pointing out in that thread.

[Alyeska]

Yes, but you can tell when someone is a fucking idiot and will never respond to any kind of logic, so it's more fun to start flaming him. Darkstar is a prime example, but he's not the only one; your old buddies E1701 and BigBryan are others.

As I said, some people just don't get the picture and can't ever admit to being wrong. When I mentioned Omicron Theta, we at SB also flammed him without mercy for his idiotic claims (SW Empire only controls 2 star system, has a few hundred ships, Tatooine only has one star, etc...). When someone doesn't get the picture after repeated attempts, thats when I have no problem flamming them. Do take into account some people don't know everything about the topic and it takes time to learn, but usually the smart but lacking of knowledge people will admit defeat, which it seems neither Omicron Theta or Darkstar appear to do (Omicron Theta called me a fanatic Warsie once )

And who the hell thinks Darkstar can curb his tongue? The guy is one of the most insulting people I've ever run across. The key distinction with Darkstar is that he doesn't insult you while IDENTIFYING SOME MISTAKE YOU'VE MADE; he simply insults you for the sake of insulting you.

If he does not practice what he preaches (IE wanting a civil debate in this case), he is open to retaliation.

[TheDarkling]

I count differently but it matters not really, the other thread wasnt much worse and people complained about that.

You the SB rep or something?

[Darth Wong]

I count differently but it matters not really, the other thread wasnt much worse and people complained about that.

You the SB rep or something?

He's one of the Spacebattles.com Babies on my Hate Mail page (although, to be fair, he's not like the others).

[Alyeska]

I count differently but it matters not really, the other thread wasnt much worse and people complained about that.

You the SB rep or something?

Sorta. Since I have decided I like both SD.net and SB.com, I don't much care for people insulting either place. Reminds me of the flame wars I attempted to mediate between TA and SC (since I enjoy and play both games).

Bob McDob's first thread was just spam, and Bob is a little nuts. The reactions that thread got were 50/50, and it is understandable because some of the people posting don't like the "generalized" statements Mike has made in regards to SB in the past. It gets worse when people over here do the same. In return, people at SB.com make generalized statements about SD.net. Its a viscous system that feeds on itself that typically breeds miscontent between the two boards.

[Alyeska]

I count differently but it matters not really, the other thread wasnt much worse and people complained about that.

You the SB rep or something?

He's one of the Spacebattles.com Babies on my Hate Mail page (although, to be fair, he's not like the others).

I would have thought most people knew my history in that regard.

Question Mike, how am I different?

[Darth Wong]

I would have thought most people knew my history in that regard. Question Mike, how am I different?

Less belligerent, less irrational than E1701 and BigBryan. IMHO. I suppose I should have pointed out that by "the others", I meant those two.

[Alyeska]

I would have thought most people knew my history in that regard. Question Mike, how am I different?

Less belligerent, less irrational than E1701 and BigBryan. IMHO. I suppose I should have pointed out that by "the others", I meant those two.

I assumed that was who you meant because of the grouping you gave us once upon a time.

Just out of curiosity, what would it take to get delisted off your hatemail page? (not that I really want to, I find it a peverse source of pride)

[Darth Wong]

Just out of curiosity, what would it take to get delisted off your hatemail page? (not that I really want to, I find it a peverse source of pride)

I dunno; I never thought about it. No one's ever had a Hate Mail entry removed, but I have obscured names upon request ("Ritchie Rich", for example, whose real name has been erased to spare him the embarrassment).

[Alyeska]

I dunno; I never thought about it. No one's ever had a Hate Mail entry removed, but I have obscured names upon request ("Ritchie Rich", for example, whose real name has been erased to spare him the embarrassment).

Wouldn't mean a whole lot to me since I don't go by my real name anyway. I would assume that "converting" to SW would be a way. Though one would have to be careful. From time to time BigBryan decides he hates ST and worships the Empire, but he can still act like an idiot. He's currently the laughing stock of SB and just about everyone has harrased him at one time or another.

[Darth Wong]

Wouldn't mean a whole lot to me since I don't go by my real name anyway.

True.

I would assume that "converting" to SW would be a way.

Well, I still probably wouldn't delete a Hate Mail entry after a "conversion", but I would add notes about the originator having "seen the light"

Though one would have to be careful. From time to time BigBryan decides he hates ST and worships the Empire, but he can still act like an idiot. He's currently the laughing stock of SB and just about everyone has harrased him at one time or another.

And he wants to ban porn. What kind of lunatic would ban porn? PORN IS GOOD!

[Alyeska]

And he wants to ban porn. What kind of lunatic would ban porn? PORN IS GOOD!

He never gives any reason other then that he hates it. Not exactly the best at supporting his arguments is he?