An alternate theory that explains The Die is Cast

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-09-27 06:47pm

Master of Ossus wrote:Do you even know what creates shockwaves? Small areas of high pressure. Hits against starships in space CANNOT create shockwaves, because there is no material there to push outwards. Now, for conventional explosives it is a bit different, because the explosion would create gases, but for beam weapons there can quite obviously be no shockwaves because there is no material to move quickly. Alyeska where do you come up with this stuff?

Ok, I deserved that, I should have known better.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-09-27 07:02pm

Actually we have seen phasers fired at planets before and these shock waves werent present (in one instance at least the Phasers were rigged for drilling possibly preventing this "shockwave" im not sure about the other time but it may also be possible).

The Ent-D fires a Phoon at a planet on at least one occassion (Skin of Evil) and again no shockwave.

We have also seen the Defiant fire its Pulse Phasers in an atmosphere and I cant recall a shockwave.

The defiant fires a Q torp at a planet and we see no shock waves (although this torp was possibly set for air burst since they were trying to spread a chemical - I will have to rewatch and see if any indication is given).

The Klingons attacked a dominion planetary base during the war (I think it was one of those suicide missions Gowron sent Martok on) and there disruptors didnt produce shockwaves from what I saw.

Although not strictly applicable combat in various gas clouds etc dont some shockwaves.

I seem to remmeber Voyager firing its phasers in an atmosphere once or twice but I will have to check up on this.

Im not to sure about the shockwaves being an NDF by product in truth but im also not sure whatelse could have caused them (then again even if it is an NDF by product we still dont understand them anymore).

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2002-09-28 02:35pm

What if the shockwaves is a hidden shield? The Founders shielded their planet and screwed up the sensors on the attacking fleet and what we saw, those shockwaves, they didn't.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-09-28 02:37pm

His Divine Shadow wrote:What if the shockwaves is a hidden shield? The Founders shielded their planet and screwed up the sensors on the attacking fleet and what we saw, those shockwaves, they didn't.

We have not seen shockwaves against shields before, ever. Besides, it would have been blindingly obvious something was wrong if there was a shield.

The best I can think of is that the weapons caused some sort of reaction on the surface that cause a shockwave like effect, but the shockwave was well beyond the damage range that occured.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2002-09-28 02:55pm

Alyeska wrote:
His Divine Shadow wrote:What if the shockwaves is a hidden shield? The Founders shielded their planet and screwed up the sensors on the attacking fleet and what we saw, those shockwaves, they didn't.
We have not seen shockwaves against shields before, ever. Besides, it would have been blindingly obvious something was wrong if there was a shield.

The best I can think of is that the weapons caused some sort of reaction on the surface that cause a shockwave like effect, but the shockwave was well beyond the damage range that occured.

Nemesis may give some insight on shockwaves against shields. (To see this watch the Nemesis Trailer.)

SCVN 2812 · Post by **SCVN 2812** » 2002-10-01 04:36am

His Divine Shadow wrote:What if the shockwaves is a hidden shield? The Founders shielded their planet and screwed up the sensors on the attacking fleet and what we saw, those shockwaves, they didn't.

What would be the point? If the results were anything much below or beyond expectations someone would take notice. Intent really plays a big part here. You don't decide to go destroy the crust and mantle of a planet and not bring along the firepower to do it. All we really see of the attack is a few seconds of bombardment and then the Colonel reporting in on the damage done. 30% of the crust destroyed can be interpreted many ways, but it's not see easy to find alternate meanings to we plan on destroying the crust within an hour.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-10-01 04:54pm

Come on, guys. Beam weapons will not create shockwaves when they hit shields, unless the shields are made up of some kind of material that can be vaporized and pushed outwards. I thought I already went over this. Beam weapons will not create shockwaves if there is nothing to vaporize. If there is something to vaporize, then it will create a shockwave if enough energy is imparted to rapidly change the pressure of the surrounding material. Otherwise there will be no shockwave. Thus, there should not be shockwaves when starships hit each other's shields with beam weapons, unless hull material is vaporized, or unless gases from within the ship are released and heated rapidly.