Pre SDnet view of Star Trek vs Star Wars

Crayz9000 · Post by **Crayz9000** » 2004-10-14 02:35am

Darth Wong wrote:I myself never gave SW vs ST a moment's thought until I discovered people arguing on Usenet about it. I suppose that will sound kind of odd considering I'm the guy who wrote the site, but there you have it.

I actually found out about your site via Usenet. Yeah, that was four years ago... when I first read Conquest, started reading through the main site... read Brian Young's Turbolaser Commentaries, learned about Spacebattles... ah, the memories...

wautd · Post by **wautd** » 2004-10-14 03:19am

I tought a ship like the Enterprise could damage an ISD but even in the best scenario ST scenario the Empire could still fall back on their death star

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2004-10-14 07:16am

For me it was easy, the Empire blew up planets and had huge military ships with loads of guns, the federation didn't.

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2004-10-14 12:25pm

SDNet isn't the only page out there, and wasn't the first one I visited, but evidence has always pointed strongly in favor of Star Wars. I started to think about SW vs ST when TNG first aired on a Swedish TV channel around 1989-1990. Since the ratings was so low, only half of the first season episodes was aired (although an other channel aired the entire show later). I thought the episodes that was aired was terrible, bad writing and I didn't like the characters at all. In retrospect, I don't know why I kept looking at the show, but I started to turn my attention to the technical aspects of it and started inevitably comparing it with Star Wars and came to the conclusion that SW would kick ass.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-10-14 06:19pm

When I thought about it (never in a structured manner; just more in terms of "Hmmmm, I wonder if the Enterprise could take a Star Destroyer" musings) I would generally put the Empire winning because of sheer size of the Imperial Starfleet, not to mention the ability to produce Death Star level killing machines.

Sokartawi · Post by **Sokartawi** » 2004-10-17 01:53pm

I used to think that Trek was technologically speaking much much more advanced then Wars, for a couple of reasons:

1) Turbolasers don't look powerful at all
2) A handful of fighters can take out the shields of a SSD and cripple it, and those fighters sure don't look powerful either, thus SW shields are weak
3) SW shields don't give flashy special effects, SW shields suck, and they rely more on armor
4) If in ST shields are down, they can blast a vessel in a couple of shots regardless of what their hull is made of, thus ST can easily blast through SW armor too.
5) In SW turrets are often crewed instead of computercontrolled, which is inferior.
6) Fighters shot down in Deathstar trench may explode nicely, but not good enough to suggest that anything powerful is hitting them (good enough being something similar to what happens if you fly your fighter in the main beam turrets of the Santhanas or any other badass capship weapon in Freespace 2).
7) Dumb ISDs can't even do anything to the Falcon so basically they suck.

We don't see much capship battles in SW so capships in Wars suck combatwise. Do they even have weapons that matter?

The above things combined resulted in that I thought ST could easily get through SW shields, and then pound through the hull like it isn't there. Only thing is that an ISD is a lot bigger, which gives it somewhat of an advantage. In addition it has a whole lot of fighters and bombers, and while I didn't consider an ISD much of a threat to ST ships, and the fighters couldn't scratch a ST ship, the bombers might be a problem, because a proton torpedo could get through a shield too to get to the reactor of the Deathstar, and an ISD would have a lot of them, which could overwhelm a ST ship. Ioncannons might pose a problem for ST too. Besides protontorpedos and Ioncannons, nothing can get through ST shields in a reasonable amount of time besides MAAAYBE Deathstar turrets 'cause they were stated to be anti-capship weapons. Oh wait, SW capships suck...

Actually, to me ISDs were nothing more then carriers for the fighters with some crap weaponry on them which isn't better then what fighters carry. Fighters were all that mattered in SW, and capships were just there to carry troops and fighters. This idea of course is further encouraged by the fact a handful of fighers can take on the Deathstar and it's turrets, which only has fighers, again, to defend it.

SW would still butcher ST because they severely outnumber ST, but only thanks to their fighters/bombers and superior FTL drives. If SW had the same territory and production capacity as the Federation, the Feddies would have a good chance of winning though this would not be certain because both sides will improve their tech to counteract what the other guy has, and SW still has the uber-FTL. Whoever wins still suffers heavy losses from which it would never fully recover.

Now all of this stuff has changed because someguy wrote down some numbers in some guides. Whatever... To me it doesn't seem to look like those numbers on the screen, but meh, who am I to say that?

Ace Pace · Post by **Ace Pace** » 2004-10-17 03:43pm

I typed www.stardestroyer.net, other then that, I havn't watched a single episode of ST, and up to today, still havn't watched more then 5.

Adun · Post by **Adun** » 2004-10-17 04:43pm

I actually came across this page looking for star destroyer´s pics. Never knew there could be such a debate over such a silly thing, star wars vs star trek.

Icehawk · Post by **Icehawk** » 2004-10-17 05:33pm

The first serious consideration I remember giving it was back in grade school when I was 12 or 13. A friend of mine was sort of a trekkie and it just popped up one time about who would win. I remember drawing pics on one of my scrap books showing ISD's taking out the Enterprise and other fed ships just to piss him off.

Even though I felt the Empire and SW would win overall due to its clearly greater size and industrial capability, it was always very close in one on one battles. Untill I found SD.net I basically figured an ISD would win against a GCS but ONLY if it got the first shots off and also had full fighter/bomber support to back it up.

Icehawk · Post by **Icehawk** » 2004-10-17 05:53pm

Sokartawi wrote: Actually, to me ISDs were nothing more then carriers for the fighters with some crap weaponry on them which isn't better then what fighters carry. Fighters were all that mattered in SW, and capships were just there to carry troops and fighters. This idea of course is further encouraged by the fact a handful of fighers can take on the Deathstar and it's turrets, which only has fighers, again, to defend it.

I remember thinking similar to this as well when I was younger. Its largely the fault of the Return of the Jedi space battle which was made to glorify the fighter combat because of its fast pace movement and dynamic camera angles and also the tense up close views with the pilots. Remember that back then it was the rebel pilots and fighters of the ANH battle which really clicked with people and so I think ILM got it in their head to continue with and improve upon that trend rather than focusing on showing capital ships trading heavy fire.

dworkin · Post by **dworkin** » 2004-10-18 02:13am

My first serious thoughts about it were due to finding Grudge Match on the web. OK, not so serious since the site is definitely slapstick over both style or substance themed but I think the Enterprise vs Death Star was telling "Death Star in 2.3 seconds".

Really seriously I had always viewed the ISDs as CAs (don't start). This is also the wieght class given the Ent-A by it's enemies (STIII movie).

The ISD is much bigger and doesn't waste any space on science labs. The Ent-D while only half the length of an ISD wastes even more space on creature comforts.

A real CA vs one that was designed by a committee (and aperently a fashion company)? And ISDs come in packs.

Kruk · Post by **Kruk** » 2004-10-18 04:00am

My first thought about ST vs SW was with first ff I wrote. And I've posted both sides as equal with trek better tech and sw greater numebers. Than it changed from fic to fic - once trek done anything it want with sw, another time it was sw turning st into wasteland.

Even now it's still: what one want to think about such fight it's right. If someone think that sw wins - jure, why not. If else - it's good to. At least for me

Utah Jak · Post by **Utah Jak** » 2004-10-18 01:25pm

Before finding Stardestroyer.net, I never really thought about it. But, when I moved into college my roomate had a poster of an ISD and we started talking about Wars vs Trek and we agreed in the first five minutes that the Empire would be the owners of the Milky Way in a couple of months. So, for me their was really no doubt. Battletech vs Star Wars is a completely different matter though...

The Original Nex · Post by **The Original Nex** » 2004-10-18 09:08pm

It really never crossed my mind. I guess SW seemed more powerful, but I figured it'd be a close fight. SD.N changed my life forever......

Advocate · Post by **Advocate** » 2004-10-19 12:03am

Way back when these boards weren't even up yet, I got into a debate with a friend of mine back when I was still in school about how a Star Destroyer could easily trounce a Galaxy-Class.

We decided to search the 'Net when we couldn't agree on the whole thing, and I found this site.

Needless to say, vindication is extremely satisfying

Tech^salvager · Post by **Tech^salvager** » 2004-10-19 11:23am

It started a while ago can't remeber when.
But I aruged with my friend about the a ISD taking on a feddy ship and winning at first I thought that feddy ships were fast. I mean bloody look at tem they allways seem to be moving to fast. I am not sure if my friend knew about shields that SW has or their power of the cannons.
But he started talking about Q then about this gigantic cloud? I still don't what that is. I may talk to him again soon on the phone about it.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2004-10-19 12:49pm

Tech^salvager wrote:It started a while ago can't remeber when.
But I aruged with my friend about the a ISD taking on a feddy ship and winning at first I thought that feddy ships were fast. I mean bloody look at tem they allways seem to be moving to fast. I am not sure if my friend knew about shields that SW has or their power of the cannons.
But he started talking about Q then about this gigantic cloud? I still don't what that is. I may talk to him again soon on the phone about it.

Yeah, it's because Trek ships TURN fast. But an ISD has what, 14 times the mass of the enterprise, so it turns slow and looks slow. But in a straight line, the ISD would easily outrun the Enterprise

Anyway the gigantic cloud thing...hmm, maybe he was referring to the Calamarain? In one episode this giant cloud thing attacked the Enterprise. It was very weak, and actually had to wait till the Enterprise dropped its shields before it struck.

Jawawithagun · Post by **Jawawithagun** » 2004-10-19 01:10pm

Praxis wrote:
Tech^salvager wrote:Yeah, it's because Trek ships TURN fast. But an ISD has what, 14 times the mass of the enterprise, so it turns slow and looks slow. But in a straight line, the ISD would easily outrun the Enterprise

It helps if you have enough firepower covering the rear you don't need to turn your whole ship to shoot at someone and you shoot from a distance that keeps your enemy in your firing arc for a bit longer.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-10-19 01:19pm

It was never even in question. The first time someone brought it up to me, I gave them a funny look. 'Okay. The Enterprise is nice, yea, but it's got one gun. One. The Star Destroyers have like a hundred and eighty. Volume. Of. Fire.'

jegs2 · Post by **jegs2** » 2004-10-19 05:39pm

The Shadow wrote:Before you visited StarDestroyer.net what was your view of Star Wars vs Star Trek ?

I figured that SW ships were far larger and more numerous, but I felt Trek was more advanced and thus would win. Thought Trek ships were much faster too. But then I knew only what I'd seen in movies and never thought much about it -- I just liked Star Destroyers (which is how I found this site and gained education).

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2004-10-19 06:29pm

"They blew up a planet"

Those were my thoughts during the 1-2 times I imagined such a contest before seeing SD.net.

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2004-10-20 06:16pm

I was guilty of most of your fervent trekkie thought processes; I knew SW had much faster ships, and figured that proton torpedoes probably trumped photon torpedoes, but that turbo lasers were mere lasers....I essentially saw ISDs as frail and over-sized, armed with a multitude of weak weapons.

Certainly hope that Mike never digs up that E-mail I sent him.

Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba · Post by **Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba** » 2004-10-22 09:09pm

II thought the Empire would win, but then I heard 'No lasers', and believed it.

'Nuff said.

Darth Lucifer · Post by **Darth Lucifer** » 2004-10-23 12:03pm

I first believed that the Federation would have won (TNG/DS9/VOY Era) against the Empire. Mike Wong definitely proved otherwise. There is no question. The Empire would kick the Holy Hell living $hit out of the Federation. Past, present and even future.

Except for the Enterprise 1701-A. Kirk would kick everyone's ass and bang their women.

Ace Pace · Post by **Ace Pace** » 2004-10-23 01:32pm

Mario1470 wrote:I first believed that the Federation would have won (TNG/DS9/VOY Era) against the Empire. Mike Wong definitely proved otherwise. There is no question. The Empire would kick the Holy Hell living $hit out of the Federation. Past, present and even future.

Except for the Enterprise 1701-A. Kirk would kick everyone's ass and bang their women.

And end up with a ripped shirt.

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Pre SDnet view of Star Trek vs Star Wars

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