Can the Empire build a Sovereign ?

Tech^salvager · Post by **Tech^salvager** » 2004-10-20 10:52am

The Silence and I wrote:
Tech^salvager wrote:
And where the fuck are you getting this 'They can't make force fields as well as the Feds!' bullcrap? Your own ass?
I think he means how the feds have all their ship windows using force fields instead of glass
Now, I am not addressing anyone in particular, but this brainbug annoys me and I have to address it.

The Federation does not use forcefields for windows--pay attention to First Contact, you will notice Picard had to open a solid panel before looking out. This was a special observation window, it is normally covered by a solid hatch! If you want more proof, watch Generations, a window shatters during the crash.

Thanks for the info.

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2004-10-20 12:51pm

Since we're talking about force fields, might as well bring up something that has been bothering me for quite awhile. Hopefully this isn't a thread hijack, but the Sovereign issue directly pertains to forcefields anyway.

Remember the scene in TPM? When Obi-Wan is trapped behind the forcefield and can't help Qui-Gon?

Tell me why the Trade Federation didn't use a force field like that. Or the later Empire. Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon were having success cutting through the blast door -- however, Obi-Wan didn't try and cut through the force field emitters in the duel scene. The force field was able to stop a Jedi, while the blast door was being defeated, ableit slowly.

Brian

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-10-20 12:54pm

Because that forcefield was specifically made for a reactor.(TPM Novelization)

Plus forcefield have this problem of no maunal override when the power goes off.

Shut the power to a section and blast door can be shut manually...forcefields just go down.

Typhonis 1 · Post by **Typhonis 1** » 2004-10-20 01:58pm

Yes they can if all theyw want is something that looks like a Soverign .Yes they can easily from say six photos or holograms. Onbe for each side will do a computer can extrapolate the rest.

Why would they do it? Why do renactiors make period clothing or buy period weapons? I mean this would be a nice museum piece t0o show the public or to recreate a voyage.

Imperial safety standards CAN be applied to the Soverign remeber how the origional ((TOS)) Enterprise was failry safe , the naval and safety boards wouldnt let anyone save a BOT near the damn thing otherwise.

Now you have a ship you can use as a

Museum piece "This is the kind of ship the ancient people of the galaxy flew around iin"

Novelty" Six days seven nights on our 'hisotric` vacation tour.Relive being a crewmemeber on a pre hyperdrive starship"

Reality Show

"Ourr team has to fly and man the ship on its journey from Tatooine to Genosis the winners get a million credits"

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2004-10-20 09:32pm

Ghost Rider wrote:Because that forcefield was specifically made for a reactor.(TPM Novelization)

Plus forcefield have this problem of no maunal override when the power goes off.

Shut the power to a section and blast door can be shut manually...forcefields just go down.

Did the forcefield require the power of an entire reactor? I was thinking that perhaps the technology was unique to the Naboo. Anyway it is hard to believe that they wouldn't have incorporated the technology somehow... for example, have forcefields, but have blast doors as well as a backup. And before someone shits on me for saying that forcefields are superior to blast doors -- forcefields have at least one good thing about them. They stop Jedi. Blast doors don't.

The forcefields could be an independent system powered off smaller generators. Sure, it might not be able to stop a sustained E-Web blaster, but against Harrison Ford it would have been more useful than those slow closing blast doors -- which brings up another question, the Naboo blast doors closed in less than a second, why did the Empire have such slow closing ones? What if the Queen accidently stepped in between the doorway when it closed, this is supposed to be a palace not a fortress. Argh.

And what about those "Droid Destroyers" in TPM in the opening scene? Those shields looked mighty useful, and stopped their own blaster shots quite well. So forcefields on a droid scale are effective against blasters.

Brian

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-10-20 09:36pm

brianeyci wrote:
Ghost Rider wrote:Because that forcefield was specifically made for a reactor.(TPM Novelization)

Plus forcefield have this problem of no maunal override when the power goes off.

Shut the power to a section and blast door can be shut manually...forcefields just go down.
Did the forcefield require the power of an entire reactor? I was thinking that perhaps the technology was unique to the Naboo. Anyway it is hard to believe that they wouldn't have incorporated the technology somehow... for example, have forcefields, but have blast doors as well as a backup. And before someone shits on me for saying that forcefields are superior to blast doors -- forcefields have at least one good thing about them. They stop Jedi. Blast doors don't.

Did you watch TPM?

And Blastdoors, stop everyone and held the Jedi perfectly at bay.

Why do you think they'd rather incorprate something that can be MANUALLY put into place versus something that can be shut down with a hit to a power generator that the thing operates upon?

Just because something is fancier does not mean it's better for everything and not nearly on the level of incorporation you're thinking of.

Just think of how many TRILLIONS of Forcefield/Blast door combination the galaxy would require and you'd get your answer in short order why they chose only one.

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2004-10-20 10:00pm

Ghost Rider wrote:
Did you watch TPM?

And Blastdoors, stop everyone and held the Jedi perfectly at bay.

Why do you think they'd rather incorprate something that can be MANUALLY put into place versus something that can be shut down with a hit to a power generator that the thing operates upon?

Just because something is fancier does not mean it's better for everything and not nearly on the level of incorporation you're thinking of.

Just think of how many TRILLIONS of Forcefield/Blast door combination the galaxy would require and you'd get your answer in short order why they chose only one.

Yes quite a long time ago though. I am talking about the scene when Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan was cutting through the blast doors. Compare this to when Obi-Wan stood helplessly while the forcefield was up. The forcefield stopped Obi-Wan and not the door (the Droid Destroyers eventually chased them away, I still don't understand that).

If a Droideka could mount a forcefield, so should hallways at regular intervals in ships. Assuming that the minaturized forcefield technology isn't exclusive to the Trade Federation.

Anyway, kind of getting OT. Sovereigns built by the Empire could incorporate this kind of forcefield technology, is my point.

Brian

Eleas · Post by **Eleas** » 2004-10-20 11:46pm

brianeyci wrote:And before someone shits on me for saying that forcefields are superior to blast doors -- forcefields have at least one good thing about them. They stop Jedi. Blast doors don't.

That's true. Then it comes down to picking the most suitable technology. I'm sure the Trade Federation made it imperative that their converted barges "must be made Jedi-proof before beginning of hostilities".

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2004-10-21 12:37am

brianeyci wrote:
Did the forcefield require the power of an entire reactor? I was thinking that perhaps the technology was unique to the Naboo.

The force fields activate to block radiation pulses coming up the giant shaft we see beyond them, which was dug to serve some form of 'plasma energy' mine. Its probably not unique technology, but it does appear to be quite bulky, and for all we know the jedi might have been able to cut through the walls around it, but just didn't bother because it would take too long.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2004-10-21 01:04am

Its important to remember that cutting the blastdoor was going to take quite some time; long enough for reinforcements to arrive and force them away. Obi-wan knew how long the sequence was for the fields opening etc, so he probably decided it would have taken too long or been too dangerous to try and deactivate the shield. Indeed, all the force-users may have known how important the shield was to the powerplant; Maul wasn't throwing pieces of equipment at people anymore, for instance.

Since we never saw the sabre clatter uselessly against the shield, we don't know if it would stop a determined attack.

Kruk · Post by **Kruk** » 2004-10-21 10:17am

Nice. Was much fun reading this. At least I know why some people dont have much regard to vs part of this forum.

The question was - can SW build Sovereign. Not a similar copy and not something that looked as Sovie.
No they cant. Don't have enough advanced technology.

They can build copy that will work similar, but it wont be Sovereign. It will be like building ISD with after Voyager tech. It can be builded and even work similar to ISD but it wont be ISD.

And someone spoke about lack of DET weapons in trek. Am I wrong or first connies used lasers. The same for romulan-human war. Lasers (without phasing abilities) are DET weapons. Feds and other abandoned them (perhabs they were ineffective against subspace shielding) but it eans not that the are ot able to build DET weapon. And as SW never showed something that looked like holodeck, transporters and so one.

Oh, and before someone say f^^k of you are die-hard trekkie - I'm not. I like trek, but I also like wars (only films and Zhan books actually, rest is not for me). You are (at least mosts) die-hard worsies. You dont think about the thread, but how to prove, that SW is superior to ST. Eh...

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-10-21 10:28am

Actually they have shown the ability to reproduce the transporters as well as the other technology.

Read the thread before going "Nu-UH!"

Most of it comes into the miniscule that they cannot do because the technology is not the same...nothing about advancement.

So before going "You're being die hard warsies!" Read the entire thread before making stupid statements that blantantly show you didn't.

Jon · Post by **Jon** » 2004-10-21 10:33am

Kruk wrote: Oh, and before someone say f^^k of you are die-hard trekkie - I'm not. I like trek, but I also like wars (only films and Zhan books actually, rest is not for me). You are (at least mosts) die-hard worsies. You dont think about the thread, but how to prove, that SW is superior to ST. Eh...

It can be hard to accept the inevitable truth.

Don't have enough advanced technology

I would disagree, just about every comparative tech in SW is better than ST. Even if we're talking about totally different kinds of tech/different universes it's still a fact.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-10-21 10:42am

Kruk wrote:Nice. Was much fun reading this. At least I know why some people dont have much regard to vs part of this forum.

The question was - can SW build Sovereign. Not a similar copy and not something that looked as Sovie.
No they cant. Don't have enough advanced technology.

No, they can only build something that goes about a thousand times faster, with a thousand times greater firepower and a thousand times larger fuel load and a thousand times stronger shields. But this super-Sovereign wouldn't have transporters, so I guess you figure it would be a failure

They can build copy that will work similar, but it wont be Sovereign. It will be like building ISD with after Voyager tech. It can be builded and even work similar to ISD but it wont be ISD.

No, it can NOT be built and it will NOT work similarly to an ISD. They don't have the technology to build ships that big, powerful, fast, and strong.

And someone spoke about lack of DET weapons in trek. Am I wrong or first connies used lasers. The same for romulan-human war. Lasers (without phasing abilities) are DET weapons. Feds and other abandoned them (perhabs they were ineffective against subspace shielding) but it eans not that the are ot able to build DET weapon. And as SW never showed something that looked like holodeck, transporters and so one.

Tell you what, you try constructing a main battle tank which has a tiny fraction of the speed, firepower, and armour of any other tank, but it has a really good home entertainment system inside, and you'll find out in short order what the word "priorities" means.

Oh, and before someone say f^^k of you are die-hard trekkie - I'm not. I like trek, but I also like wars (only films and Zhan books actually, rest is not for me). You are (at least mosts) die-hard worsies. You dont think about the thread, but how to prove, that SW is superior to ST. Eh...

Wow, another idiot who thinks you can refute an argument by simply accusing your opponent of having chosen the other side rather than addressing any of his points or evidence.

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2004-10-21 01:22pm

I think it would be useful to classify what "kind" of Sovereign the Empire would want to build, depending on the type of job.

1. "Shock" Sovereign - Only bears a superficial resemblance to the Sovereign, as in only the hull shape is the same. Maybe the Empire wants to catch them off guard for some reason (although why, because ISD hyperspace already does this), or some rich Hut got schematics and wants to play a joke. This Sovereign would easily be distinguished from a real Sovereign on close inspection because sensors would detect a different power system, different defensive systems, and so on. And the inside of the Sovereign does not resemble a Sovereign at all.

Can the Empire build this? Yes, of course the Empire can build a Sovereign that looks like a Sovereign but uses SW technology replacements.

2. Light-Esponiage Sovereign - Has the same shape as a Sovereign, but the Empire actually tries to emulate some of the technology so it won't look out of place. They try to copy ST technology, so the energy signatures and so on look Federation at least from long-range scanners. As well, they try to emulate as many systems as they can, but aren't finky with the details -- the ship should be able to pass a quick inspection but upon closer inspection by someone familiar with Federation technology, the Sovereign would fail. Why the Empire would want to do this is beyond me, but perhaps the post-ROTJ Republic would want to scout out the Federation with a Sovereign so they wouldn't draw suspicion.

Can the Empire build this? Yes. They can jury-rig as many Sovereign systems as they can, adapt SW technology to so they pass a scan so they look like Fed technology, and so on.

3. Deep-Esponiage Sovereign - The Empire wants to plant officers/operatives into the Federation, and needs to spy on the Federation before they launch an attack -- or maybe the post-ROTJ government is just trying to get operatives deep into the Federation. This would mean total emulation of the Sovereign -- even the LCARS system would have to emulated, everything would have to be SW tech heavily adapted to not only resemble ST tech but operate and function like ST technology. The purpose of this type of Sovereign would be to train operatives to go into the Federation, act like the Federation, and do things like Federation. This would be similar to what Species 8472 was trying to do in the VOY5 - "In the Flesh". Not only would the officers be trained to operate Federation technology, they would have to act like Federation officers - read books, know the culture, know the history, and so on.

Can the Empire/post ROTJ Republic make this? Maybe, but they would need detailed information of not just the technology of the Federation but the culture of the Federation.

Brian

Techno_Union · Post by **Techno_Union** » 2004-10-21 03:04pm

brianeyci wrote: which brings up another question, the Naboo blast doors closed in less than a second, why did the Empire have such slow closing ones?

Did you see ANH? Rewatch the scene where Solo, Chewie, Luke, ect were in the control room about the hanger bay. Said scene shows that the Empire has just as fast doors as the Naboo.

What if the Queen accidently stepped in between the doorway when it closed, this is supposed to be a palace not a fortress. Argh.

Then it would be a murder seeing as though you have to manuelly close the doors.

Kruk · Post by **Kruk** » 2004-10-21 03:28pm

Darth Wong wrote: No, they can only build something that goes about a thousand times faster, with a thousand times greater firepower and a thousand times larger fuel load and a thousand times stronger shields. But this super-Sovereign wouldn't have transporters, so I guess you figure it would be a failure

Yes, it will be. Question was about building a Sovereign. Not something that looks like Sovereign.

They can build copy that will work similar, but it wont be Sovereign. It will be like building ISD with after Voyager tech. It can be builded and even work similar to ISD but it wont be ISD.

Hm, so if Fed can build something that works similar to ISD but not the same as ISD it's failure. but if SW build something that lookes like Sovereign, but not work so - it's success? Funny.

and yes. Post Voyager it will be possible. With slipstream they can simulate drive (not as fast as ISD hiperdrive, but faster then warp), powergeneration (with Seven they now know how to stabilize Omega molecule). And with power You can biuld bigger guns (combine super-phaser from Galaxy-X (All good Things) and impulse phaser from Defiant and You will have nice weaponary) better shields and armor (generators) and so on. It wont be as good as original, but it will simmilar.

Darth Wong wrote: Tell you what, you try constructing a main battle tank which has a tiny fraction of the speed, firepower, and armour of any other tank, but it has a really good home entertainment system inside, and you'll find out in short order what the word "priorities" means.

Priorites are weapons yeah? Nice. And I have not said, that Human lasers were so powerfull like blasters, but that ST have builded DET weapons. And abandoned them. For some reason.

Darth Wong wrote: Wow, another idiot who thinks you can refute an argument by simply accusing your opponent of having chosen the other side rather than addressing any of his points or evidence.

What argument have I refuted by this statement? None I think. I'va said, that You are not trying to proov if SW can or can not build sovereign, but to say that SW has better waepons, shields and so. What better weapons or drive have to do with thise thread?

I like SW, but some poeples on vs threads are just like you said - idiots. I've spoken with some guy, from sd.net I think (Praxis), that wanted to proove me, that DS is more advanced than Genesis device. You know, how he have tried to do it - with only three words: better power generation. And for any my ask for a proov that SW can do something even compared to creating a planet - he answered - better power generation, so more advanced. Most of that is going on here - if it's bigger faster and have DET weapons - it's better. What have this to advancement? SW will beat most ST races with no problems. True. but it's mean not that they are more advanced. Just that they have bigger guns and numbers. It's like third world country with nuclear weaponary agains more advanced (and will to use it) against oponent without it. They will win, but would it mean, that they are more advanced?

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2004-10-21 06:27pm

Kruk wrote:The question was - can SW build Sovereign. Not a similar copy and not something that looked as Sovie.

If it can do everything a Sovereign can, it IS for all practical purposes a Sovereign,

No they cant. Don't have enough advanced technology.

You're kidding, right?

It can be builded and even work similar to ISD but it wont be ISD.

That's right. It will be orders of magnitude slower STL, it will be orders of magnitude slower FTL, it will have orders of magnitude less offensive/defensive power, it will have orders of magnitude less power generation capability...

And someone spoke about lack of DET weapons in trek. Am I wrong or first connies used lasers.

You're wrong.

The same for romulan-human war.

Quotes please.

Lasers (without phasing abilities) are DET weapons.

No kidding.

Feds and other abandoned them (perhabs they were ineffective against subspace shielding)

One wonders why they keep the inevitably DET photorps around, then. Maybe it was because phasers can do stuff that, given their energy generation capabilities, DET weapons CANT'?

but it eans not that the are ot able to build DET weapon.

Nobody ever said that. Trek cannot, however, built DET weapons within hailing distance of Wars yields.

And as SW never showed something that looked like holodeck,

Liar. Hologram fun world.

transporters

Liar. Teleport rings.

and so one.

Elaborate.

Oh, and before someone say f^^k of you are die-hard trekkie - I'm not. I like trek, but I also like wars (only films and Zhan books actually, rest is not for me). You are (at least mosts) die-hard worsies. You dont think about the thread, but how to prove, that SW is superior to ST. Eh...

Bud, us 'worsiers' don't have to prove a thing. The ICS did that for us. 200 GT directed energy weapons on a 20 year old troop transport vs MT-at-best omnidirectional explosives on the Federation flagship. Tens of millions of c vs 10s of thousands (if we're generous).
What we DO delight in is show rabid trekkies that just because thweir series uses more fancy buzzwords and uses high-tech (and usually unreliable to boot) solutions for low-tech problems does not make it superior.

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2004-10-21 06:39pm

Kruk wrote: Yes, it will be. Question was about building a Sovereign. Not something that looks like Sovereign.

If it looks like a Sovereign and can dió everything a Sovereign does, it IS a Sovereign.

They can build copy that will work similar, but it wont be Sovereign. It will be like building ISD with after Voyager tech. It can be builded and even work similar to ISD but it wont be ISD.
Hm, so if Fed can build something that works similar to ISD but not the same as ISD it's failure. but if SW build something that lookes like Sovereign, but not work so - it's success? Funny.

Yes, because the Imp Sov will outperform the real one seven thousand ways from sunday, while the Fed ISD won't be able to emulate the performance of a Wars bulk freighter.

and yes. Post Voyager it will be possible. With slipstream they can simulate drive (not as fast as ISD hiperdrive, but faster then warp)

Wow. Now they're merely a hundred times slower than Wars, instead of ten thousand times. I'm really impressed.

, powergeneration (with Seven they now know how to stabilize Omega molecule).

Numbers.

And with power You can biuld bigger guns

No you can't. You can POWER bigger guns (not that they'd be anywhere in iWars range), doesn't mean you automatically are able to BUILD them.

(combine super-phaser from Galaxy-X (All good Things)

Potential future design that never actually existed and never displayed Wars-level firepower to boot.

and impulse phaser from Defiant and You will have nice weaponary) better shields and armor (generators) and so on. It wont be as good as original, but it will simmilar.

No. It will merely be pathetic as opposed to unnoticeable. You obviously don't understand the gap between Trek technology and Wars technology.

Darth Wong wrote: Tell you what, you try constructing a main battle tank which has a tiny fraction of the speed, firepower, and armour of any other tank, but it has a really good home entertainment system inside, and you'll find out in short order what the word "priorities" means.
Priorites are weapons yeah? Nice.

Err-for a warship yes they are?
SNIPPED the rest, because you obviously have no clue what advanced actually means.

ANGELUS · Post by **ANGELUS** » 2004-10-21 06:48pm

Kruk wrote:And as SW never showed something that looked like holodeck, transporters and so one.

Good Lord! did you even bother reading the whole thread before making that statement?

Kruk wrote:Hm, so if Fed can build something that works similar to ISD but not the same as ISD it's failure. but if SW build something that lookes like Sovereign, but not work so - it's success? Funny.

and yes. Post Voyager it will be possible. With slipstream they can simulate drive (not as fast as ISD hiperdrive, but faster then warp), powergeneration (with Seven they now know how to stabilize Omega molecule). And with power You can biuld bigger guns (combine super-phaser from Galaxy-X (All good Things) and impulse phaser from Defiant and You will have nice weaponary) better shields and armor (generators) and so on. It wont be as good as original, but it will simmilar.

No, it is not possible, it's not only about having a lot of raw materials to build a big ship. It's about engineering knowledge that the federation has never shown. Materials must be manipulated in order to be used like that. Because when you build something in a bigger scale, its mass increases on a faster rate than it's area. Therefore it can's stand on itself. You can't use the primitive federation materials to build something as big as a SD because the ship wouldn't keep itself together. Therefore, the fact that you can biuld something as big as the deathstar means that you have far more advanced engineering knowledge than a civilization that can't build ships bigger than a KM. Read the "Size matters" essay in the "Science" section of the main site, I think It'll explain you this better than I can.

Kruk wrote:Priorites are weapons yeah? Nice. And I have not said, that Human lasers were so powerfull like blasters, but that ST have builded DET weapons. And abandoned them. For some reason.

Maybe it was cheaper to make phasers... who knows?(I know the federation uses no money, but it doesn't mean that they don't have an economy at all and that it wouldn't cost them to buil something).

Kruk wrote:And for any my ask for a proov that SW can do something even compared to creating a planet - he answered - better power generation, so more advanced.

Do you got any proof that the federation can blow up a planet with a single blast?

Kruk wrote:Just that they have bigger guns and numbers. It's like third world country with nuclear weaponary agains more advanced (and will to use it) against oponent without it. They will win, but would it mean, that they are more advanced?

You see, the main problem with that statement is that the empire is not a third world contry that happens to have a nuclear device, it is a very old civilization that has actually DEVELOPED all of it's technologies. We know they are more advanced because they can build bigger ships, far more powerfull weapons and shields, can travel from one side of the galaxy to the other in a cople of days (It takes decades to the Feds), they can blow up planets with a single blast, they can mass produce sentient artificial life forms that anyone can buy, they've conquered nearly their whole galaxy, and so on...

and all this technologies were DEVELOPED BY THEM, they didn't just appear by magic in their galaxy. So, if they can create things that make the feds look like cave men, and they developed them by themselves, then I woul say yas: they are more advanced.

And even you must be able to see this.

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2004-10-21 11:29pm

I heard genesis torpedo somewhere. Genesis torpedo uses some sort of chain reaction (some people think that the Death Star uses a chain-reaction too, but that is not the point). The Genesis torpedo uses protomatter, what Savvik said that "every ethical scientist in the galaxy has declared dangerously unpredictable".

It is not "in-character" for the Federation to use Genesis torpedoes, so the Federation wouldn't use them. And why are we talking about this in a thread about whether the Empire could make a Sovereign? I thought I cleared up the controversy,

Can the Empire build,

"Shock Sovereign" : Looks like Sovereign, but that's the only resemblance -- Yes.

Light-Esponiage Sovereign : Tries to resemble Sovereign power systems, warp drive, weapons array and so on so a quick scan or a long range scan would pass inspection -- Yes.

Deep-Esponiage Sovereign : Not only tries to resemble a Sovereign, but actually works and reacts like a Sovereign. Trains Empire/post-ROTJ Republic operatives to live and integrate into Federation society -- Maybe, but would need more than just technical information, and would have to not only seem like one but act like one as well. Maybe easier to steal a Sovereign than do this.

Brian

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2004-10-22 02:12am

This whole thread is idiotic. Why would the Empire waste its time building a Trojan Horse, when it can pound the walls of the castle to dust faster than Mr. Spock can say "fascinating"?

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2004-10-22 02:22am

Mad Hut is the only one who knows the location of the rift and wants to travel through the Milky Way unnoticed.

The Empire wants to do some recon before invading, without attracting attention. This isn't the SW galaxy -- it hasn't been totally mapped and explored. Species 8472 in VOY created a whole simulation of Starfleet Academy just to gather intel. Just because you think you know everything about the enemy, doesn't mean you just brazenly go in there without intelligence. Watch B5? Remember when Sinclair is brought in by the Minbari when Delenn tells the council that they should examine one of the enemy to find out what their "final defenses" are? The Minbari were owning the Earth Alliance -- the Earth ships couldn't even lock on to the Minbari ships.

You can think of some pretty creative explainations. Oh, and if the government is post-ROTJ and not the Empire, then maybe they want to do some scouting before they initiate "First Contact".

And yes, the thread is silly, but there is fun in silly things =D.

Brian

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2004-10-22 02:40am

brianeyci wrote:Mad Hut is the only one who knows the location of the rift and wants to travel through the Milky Way unnoticed.

Then he'll offer money to a Harry Mudd type or Ferengi for a ride. So what?

The Empire wants to do some recon before invading, without attracting attention. This isn't the SW galaxy -- it hasn't been totally mapped and explored. Species 8472 in VOY created a whole simulation of Starfleet Academy just to gather intel.

Hey, if 8472 want to go about it the stupid way, let them. All the Empire has to do is capture one starship and download the sum total of all human knowledge from the databanks. Or offer a Ferengi money.

Just because you think you know everything about the enemy, doesn't mean you just brazenly go in there without intelligence. Watch B5? Remember when Sinclair is brought in by the Minbari when Delenn tells the council that they should examine one of the enemy to find out what their "final defenses" are? The Minbari were owning the Earth Alliance -- the Earth ships couldn't even lock on to the Minbari ships.

Idiot, Delenn did that because she was told to by the Vorlons. Try watching the source you are using.[/quote]

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2004-10-22 04:47am

ST have builded DET weapons. And abandoned them. For some reason.

It´s not Star Wars´ fault the Federation couldn´t develop more powerful DET weapons. I´d say that makes SW more advanced by default, since they managed to find a way to advance DET weaponry, while ST had to settle for a different technology that, in the end, is weaker.

Using one type of technology to do the exact same thing as another does not equal "more advanced". Different technology? Yes. More advanced technology? No.