Species 8472 vs The Galactic Empire

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2002-12-01 05:19pm

So after Ender and Sean disputed the run away action, you come back going"Yeah!!"

So please...put some calcs on how is 8472 going to even begin to stop or destroy the Empire.

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2002-12-01 05:21pm

Sovereign wrote:
It's also possible that the Eights ordered a general retreat
because they feared the Borg would acquire knowledge of
the enhanced nanoprobes very quickly.
All the more reason for 8472 to press the attack NOW. They had telepathic info on Voyager's capabilities. They SHOULD have known that Voyager only had ONE high yield warhead. If they didn't then that just proves their own stupidity.

Exactly.

8472 had returned to their universe to rethink there plan. They ended up preparing to infiltrate Starfleet and then invade, full scale. Voyager also made peace with them and gave them the Nanoprobe weapon. You must know they only left to prepair the next move.

Info from...
http://www.startrek.com/library/voy_epi ... 103771.asp

So they can adapt to modified nanoprobes, doesn't mean they can adapt to sheer power.

Also, someone said that in five months, 8472 only destroyed 8 planets and assumed that they have a very slow recharge rate. If you pay a loser attention, the Borg reported...

"Species 8472 has penetrated Matrix 010 Grid 19. Eight planets destroyed. 312 vessels disabled. 4,600,021 Borg eliminated"

(you can hear this at... http://www.stinsv.com/TNg/borga.htm )

This meens that they have only just penetrated a new area of the Borg's Vast area of space, and they have just destroyed 8 Planets.

And judging by the casualties those were just outpost planets. Also if S8472 had the numbers some people claimed, that figure would be pathetic.

There is no way of knowing how many total have been destroyed, but 7 of 9 estimated around the Hundreds.

Where?

Oh, and yes, I AM BACK!

And you'll be gone again, once your lack of evidence is brought to light.

Sorry Sov, S8472 still loses.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2002-12-01 05:21pm

Sovereign wrote:
It's also possible that the Eights ordered a general retreat
because they feared the Borg would acquire knowledge of
the enhanced nanoprobes very quickly.
All the more reason for 8472 to press the attack NOW. They had telepathic info on Voyager's capabilities. They SHOULD have known that Voyager only had ONE high yield warhead. If they didn't then that just proves their own stupidity.

8472 had returned to their universe to rethink there plan. They ended up preparing to infiltrate Starfleet and then invade, full scale. Voyager also made peace with them and gave them the Nanoprobe weapon. You must know they only left to prepair the next move.

Info from...
http://www.startrek.com/library/voy_epi ... 103771.asp

Whish is relevent to their attempt at combat with the Empire how?

Also, someone said that in five months, 8472 only destroyed 8 planets and assumed that they have a very slow recharge rate. If you pay a loser attention, the Borg reported...

"Species 8472 has penetrated Matrix 010 Grid 19. Eight planets destroyed. 312 vessels disabled. 4,600,021 Borg eliminated"

(you can hear this at... http://www.stinsv.com/TNg/borga.htm )

Relevent to your claims of 8472 strength against the empire how?

This meens that they have only just penetrated a new area of the Borg's Vast area of space, and they have just destroyed 8 Planets. There is no way of knowing how many total have been destroyed, but 7 of 9 estimated around the Hundreds.

Oh, and yes, I AM BACK!

They also said that they had penetrated only a dozen times. The fact that this was a serious attack indicates it was of a level atleast as bad as the others, and considering that you build up in strength as you press on winning the war, indicates this may have been the worst one yet. So we get a possible high end of 104 planets being destroyed and the borg going to fail in 10 days as a result.

So in other words, that only proves the borg suck the cock.

Sovereign · Post by **Sovereign** » 2002-12-01 05:45pm

So they can adapt to modified nanoprobes, doesn't mean they can adapt to sheer power.

Where the hell do you get that? 8472 weapons (as other people have stated) use Raw Energy weapons. If Star Wars Plasma technology is Raw Energy, then why would 8472 have a problem with it? Thats like splashing water in a lake, it does nothing, because water is water, and Raw energy is Raw energy.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2002-12-01 05:46pm

Sovereign wrote:
So they can adapt to modified nanoprobes, doesn't mean they can adapt to sheer power.
Where the hell do you get that? 8472 weapons (as other people have stated) use Raw Energy weapons. If Star Wars Plasma technology is Raw Energy, then why would 8472 have a problem with it? Thats like splashing water in a lake, it does nothing, because water is water, and Raw energy is Raw energy.

Bullshit it's raw energy. Visuals and the script say it is a chain reaction.

Sovereign · Post by **Sovereign** » 2002-12-01 05:50pm

Did I say anything about the Planet Killer Beam??? NO I DID NOT!!! The Weapons used on standered bioships are Raw Energy, This is why the Borg had trouble adapting!

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-12-01 05:51pm

If Star Wars Plasma technology is Raw Energy, then why would 8472 have a problem with it? Thats like splashing water in a lake, it does nothing, because water is water, and Raw energy is Raw energy.

Would you say "raw" energy in the Radio Range is Diffrent from "raw" utraviolet or gamma range?

There is no such thing as "Raw" energy considering even Energy itself comes in an infinte amount of wavelengths

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2002-12-01 05:53pm

Sovereign wrote:Did I say anything about the Planet Killer Beam??? NO I DID NOT!!! The Weapons used on standered bioships are Raw Energy, This is why the Borg had trouble adapting!

Prove it. We see they use treknobabble for a main function, show they don't use it for their other weapon as well.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2002-12-01 05:54pm

I also want an explanation as to why it affect subspace and tosses ships around if it is only DET.

Sovereign · Post by **Sovereign** » 2002-12-01 06:05pm

Ender wrote:
Sovereign wrote:Did I say anything about the Planet Killer Beam??? NO I DID NOT!!! The Weapons used on standered bioships are Raw Energy, This is why the Borg had trouble adapting!
Prove it. We see they use treknobabble for a main function, show they don't use it for their other weapon as well.

The USS Enterprise NCC 1701 ender the command of James T. Kirk helped the USS Constellation NCC 1017, fight a Planet Killer that used, as Captain Decker stated, "Pure Anti-Proton, Absolutly PURE!"

Why would 8472 be any different?

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2002-12-01 06:09pm

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....Oh jesus fucking christ

You're taking two things from dialogue and assuming they are the same thing?!

Damn

I mean given that the Planet Eater from the TOS was supposed to be CUTTING up planets...but nevermind that...this is too rich.

I mean I should think that Mega Man and Contra games...or hell magic in Tolkien and Jordan are the same thing use the same names.

Sovereign · Post by **Sovereign** » 2002-12-01 06:15pm

Mr Bean wrote:
If Star Wars Plasma technology is Raw Energy, then why would 8472 have a problem with it? Thats like splashing water in a lake, it does nothing, because water is water, and Raw energy is Raw energy.
Would you say "raw" energy in the Radio Range is Diffrent from "raw" utraviolet or gamma range?

There is no such thing as "Raw" energy considering even Energy itself comes in an infinte amount of wavelengths

True, very true, but then again, Hyper Matter does not exist, but we can both agree it is more powerful than Anti-Matter which does exist.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2002-12-01 06:17pm

Did you even understand...saying Raw Energy is like saying Raw matter.

And then what the fuck is with the Hypermatter tangent?!

beyond hope · Post by **beyond hope** » 2002-12-01 06:21pm

Sov, I have a suggestion:

Find yourself a good S&M parlor. Get the master/mistress (whichever you prefer) to whip you until you bleed while snarling "The Empire will whip your puny trekkie ass!" It'll be more mild than the drubbing you'll get here without *any* figures to back up your claims, and it'll at least save you the public humiliation.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-12-01 06:26pm

BYH, That is quite enough try and mind your manors here

Second as to your statment

True, very true, but then again, Hyper Matter does not exist, but we can both agree it is more powerful than Anti-Matter which does exist.

Acutaly USEABLE Anti-Matter is NOT know to exist though Anti-Matter is so your nitpick and comparsion to Hypermatter is invaild as BOTH have yet to be proven to exist

Edit:I should explain that
By that I mean Anti-Matter has been "observed" (As much as anything can be observed that small) but USABLE, IE amounts you could use to power a ship have not, IE, as one tecnicaly COULD build a spaceship powered by Steam, it likley would not be very efficent

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2002-12-01 06:32pm

Sovereign wrote:
Mr Bean wrote:
If Star Wars Plasma technology is Raw Energy, then why would 8472 have a problem with it? Thats like splashing water in a lake, it does nothing, because water is water, and Raw energy is Raw energy.
Would you say "raw" energy in the Radio Range is Diffrent from "raw" utraviolet or gamma range?

There is no such thing as "Raw" energy considering even Energy itself comes in an infinte amount of wavelengths
True, very true, but then again, Hyper Matter does not exist, but we can both agree it is more powerful than Anti-Matter which does exist.

Wow. Even for a red herring that was shitty. He makes mention about different forms of energy, and you go off on fuel.

Jesus that was stupid.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2002-12-01 06:35pm

Sovereign wrote:
Ender wrote:
Sovereign wrote:Did I say anything about the Planet Killer Beam??? NO I DID NOT!!! The Weapons used on standered bioships are Raw Energy, This is why the Borg had trouble adapting!
Prove it. We see they use treknobabble for a main function, show they don't use it for their other weapon as well.
The USS Enterprise NCC 1701 ender the command of James T. Kirk helped the USS Constellation NCC 1017, fight a Planet Killer that used, as Captain Decker stated, "Pure Anti-Proton, Absolutly PURE!"

Why would 8472 be any different?

... Bullshit red herring that actually proves my point. It used the technobabble bit about antiproton to kill planets, and then used the same weaponry on a ship. You are claiming that 8472 uses different weaponry for killing a planet and ship to ship combat. Way to shoot yourself in the foot.

Sovereign · Post by **Sovereign** » 2002-12-01 06:44pm

... Bullshit red herring that actually proves my point. It used the technobabble bit about antiproton to kill planets, and then used the same weaponry on a ship. You are claiming that 8472 uses different weaponry for killing a planet and ship to ship combat. Way to shoot yourself in the foot.

A Tank and a Soldier both fire guns, the Tank on the other hand does not fire a 9mm round. Oh, and everyone criticizes my info, but never explain why afterwards. Maybe it is you who should start paying attention. Also, one again, this website and all its Calculation are not Canon, only speculation.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2002-12-01 06:47pm

Did you read any of the website, AT ALL?!

Do you understand how Saxton and Wong and others came to their conclusions?

Or are you just now pulling bullshit because you realize that you are wrong?

omegaLancer · Post by **omegaLancer** » 2002-12-01 06:56pm

The problem is that Hypermatter does exist. Nuclear Physicist consider Hypermatter to be matter who's Nucleus contains Particles of Strange matter.

Strange matter would be sub atomic particles considing of Strange Quarks. Recentily several Nuetrons stars have been discover that many scientist believe conside of Strange matter rather than Neutronium.

Strange particle if electrically Nuetral or negatively charge would actually convert Nuetron and protons in normal matter to Strange matter also (this process actually give off energy). Positive charge strange particles could still form Stranglet ( grouping of strange particles).

Stranglet are extremily heavy. A piece the size of a spec of dust would weight tons..

It would be possible to form anti Stranglet ( compose of anti strange Quarks) so an matter anti matter reaction between it and it Strange counterpart can be create. Since Strange matter is so much denser and heavy than normal matter it would occupy a much smaller volumn than normal matter..

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-12-01 06:58pm

A Tank and a Soldier both fire guns, the Tank on the other hand does not fire a 9mm round.

Noo Tanks have Cannons

Second and 9mm Rounds the Soldier might fire are not tungestan self sharping "Darts"

Even worse Red Herring that time

Also, one again, this website and all its Calculation are not Canon, only speculation.

Area=LengthxWidthxHeight

Would that be speculation?

beyond hope · Post by **beyond hope** » 2002-12-01 06:59pm

Sovereign wrote:
... Bullshit red herring that actually proves my point. It used the technobabble bit about antiproton to kill planets, and then used the same weaponry on a ship. You are claiming that 8472 uses different weaponry for killing a planet and ship to ship combat. Way to shoot yourself in the foot.
A Tank and a Soldier both fire guns, the Tank on the other hand does not fire a 9mm round. Oh, and everyone criticizes my info, but never explain why afterwards. Maybe it is you who should start paying attention. Also, one again, this website and all its Calculation are not Canon, only speculation.

I wonder if he realizes he just agreed with you, Ender? Allow me to paraphrase: a handgun and a tank gun use the same basic technology, with the tank gun being far more powerful than the handgun. That's exactly the point that Ender made about Species 8472: the planet-killer beam is in all likelihood the same thing they're shooting at the Borg cubes, especially in light of the fact that you see cubes get hit by it and explode after a delay.

As far as your figures go that should be blindingly obvious: you've supplied none. What we've heard is a lot of "this is the way I say it is, and I can't believe you don't take my word for it."

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2002-12-01 07:57pm

Sovereign wrote:
So they can adapt to modified nanoprobes, doesn't mean they can adapt to sheer power.
Where the hell do you get that? 8472 weapons (as other people have stated) use Raw Energy weapons. If Star Wars Plasma technology is Raw Energy, then why would 8472 have a problem with it? Thats like splashing water in a lake, it does nothing, because water is water, and Raw energy is Raw energy.

Hey look everyone, Sov doesn't even read the bullshit work of other people he posts. If you would have READ the summary of the episode you posted you would have know it states the S8472 adapted to Voy's nanoprobe weapons and 7o9 had to upgrade them. I thought you were trying to make some sort of crappy diluted point there about S8472 adaption, sorry, I remember from now on that you don't have a point at all, your just spewing shit like a ruptured septic tank.

beyond hope · Post by **beyond hope** » 2002-12-01 08:26pm

By the way, belated apologies to anyone my prior post might have offended. Won't happen again.

GrandMasterTerwynn · Post by **GrandMasterTerwynn** » 2002-12-02 12:03am

Sovereign wrote:An 8472 Bio-Ship can range in size but the onse seen in Voyager were mostly 200+ meters.

Proof? Where are the bigger bioships? If I remember right, all of them were of similar size.

Sovereign wrote: This gave them great maneuverability against ships several times bigger than them. There weapons are extremely powerful. They can damage a vessel or throw it off course even if they miss. We have seen them tear a borg ship apart even with its shields up.

This is more an artifact of the weakness of Borg ships.

Sovereign wrote: When nine Bio-Ships combine energy they can destroy planets.

Explain how this isn't a property of some special planet cracking vessel (i.e. the one in the center of the formation.)

Sovereign wrote: Against the Empire we can believe that the Bio-Ship will out maneuver any Star Destroyer.

Big deal. Lots of things outmaneuver ISDs. Prove that the ISD's turbolasers wouldn't be able to track a bioship.

Sovereign wrote: Several blows into the shield generaters on a Star Destroyer will bring their shields down.

The old "shield domes" myth. Those are sensor domes. Explain how a ship's shield generators can exist outside the ship's shields?

Sovereign wrote: Against the Death Star or Super Star Destroyer is pretty easy too. All They would do is combine nine ships and fire.

Wrong. Borg weapons can do some damage to bioships. A bioship ramming into a flimsy cube blows up. Borg weapons << turbolasers. Thus turbolaser >> bioship defenses.

Sovereign wrote:
If a Fleet protecting them stood in the Bio-Ships way, then they would just swarm all over. Species 8472 can also travel to any point in the universe when ever they want.

Wrong. The burden of proof is on you to demonstrate that Species 8472 can enter our universe from some place other than the Delta Quadrant.

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Species 8472 vs The Galactic Empire

Hypermatter, yes there is such a thing

Re: Species 8472 vs The Galactic Empire