A new idea: Clark Kent in the ST/SWverse.

[Ghost Rider]

As for his Superspeed...we could give him a the TK application with a some extra unknown that would be harder to explain. The Speed Force is more, but he could have the Flash's biggest and best power of somehow his TK field allows for things in a small localized area to not get affected when he moves at superspeeds.

There is more to think about how the fuck Supes moves that way.

[Praxis]

Ahh I see, I did misread your post.

So we're in agreement that he would mop the floor with the ground forces, but have no chance against space forces (excepting maybe the disabled Star Destroyer, simply because it can't shoot him and has no shields )?

How do you think he would do vs TIEs, btw? TIE fighters generally shoot for larger targets. On the one hand, Clark is smaller than their normal targets. ON THE OTHER HAND, Corran Horn (remember, force powers + Rogue Squadron training, not an ordinary pilot) managed to shoot down an incoming proton torpedo. However, it took him several shots to hit it and it was moving in a straight line at him.

TIE's are unshielded (Clark would be completely ineffective vs an X-wing), so he might be able to damage it by slamming the viewport or the exposed fuel tank (according to those *shiver* Young Jedi Knights book, it's a small weak point on TIEs).

So the two questions are:
A) Can they hit Clark? Clark is about the size of a proton torp, and while they have a hard time hitting those, a good pilot can do it. So, does Clark or the Proton torp move faster?
2) Can they actually hurt him? TIE cannons are kiloton range, aren't they? The bombers are even more powerful, but Clark should be able to avoid missles better than laser cannons. So would kiloton-range lasers hurt him?

Clark wouldn't do anything against an ISD, but might he be useful covering escaping transports from TIE strafting runs?

[Ghost Rider]

TIEs...it would honestly depending on swarming. His strength will be his best assest, but the biggest problem he'd be good with X-Wings, not just duking out alone.

If the Bombers come out and swarm him he can get fucked because it they use anything even close to the Seismic mine, he gets whacked. Mostly I can see him basically handling a here there lone TIE versus the thought of multi squads of fighters.

His strength is enough with his speed to start killing them slowly but if they go after their objective and ignore him...he'll be very hard pressed to do much more.

[Batman]

A) Can they hit Clark? Clark is about the size of a proton torp,

Brrr.Come again? They manage to put six of those torps into the poitively tiny launchers of an X-Wing. Last time I checked, Clark was rather bulky for a human. Of which one fits into an X-Wing. Namely, in the cockpit.

and while they have a hard time hitting those, a good pilot can do it. So, does Clark or the Proton torp move faster?

Canon Clark, straight line, time to accellerate:Maybe Clark. Short time, having to maneuver? Protorp by a landslide,

2) Can they actually hurt him? TIE cannons are kiloton range, aren't they? The bombers are even more powerful, but Clark should be able to avoid missles better than laser cannons. So would kiloton-range lasers hurt him?

I claimed he is invulnerable to those, and GR granted him MT-to low GT durability several times. Do you have a reading comprehension problem?

[Praxis]

As for his Superspeed...we could give him a the TK application with a some extra unknown that would be harder to explain. The Speed Force is more, but he could have the Flash's biggest and best power of somehow his TK field allows for things in a small localized area to not get affected when he moves at superspeeds.

There is more to think about how the fuck Supes moves that way.

An interesting note: The Flash was on an episode of Smallville (before he was the Flash, though).

And the effects of him moving were JUST LIKE CLARK.

Here's two screenshots:
+http://www.devotedtosmallville.com/dtsg ... =81&pos=36
+http://www.devotedtosmallville.com/dtsg ... =81&pos=39

Credit given to DTS for the pics.

Perhaps they're similar?[/url]

[Praxis]

A) Can they hit Clark? Clark is about the size of a proton torp,

Brrr.Come again? They manage to put six of those torps into the poitively tiny launchers of an X-Wing. Last time I checked, Clark was rather bulky for a human. Of which one fits into an X-Wing. Namely, in the cockpit.

and while they have a hard time hitting those, a good pilot can do it. So, does Clark or the Proton torp move faster?

Canon Clark, straight line, time to accellerate:Maybe Clark. Short time, having to maneuver? Protorp by a landslide,

2) Can they actually hurt him? TIE cannons are kiloton range, aren't they? The bombers are even more powerful, but Clark should be able to avoid missles better than laser cannons. So would kiloton-range lasers hurt him?

I claimed he is invulnerable to those, and GR granted him MT-to low GT durability several times. Do you have a reading comprehension problem?

For the first time, you're right, he's a bit bigger. But he's still fairly small compared to a fighter.

Yes, he said MT durability, but lasers are high-KT- wouldn't multiple hits do damage?

[Batman]

For the first time, you're right, he's a bit bigger. But he's still fairly small compared to a fighter.

A bit bigger? X-Wing protorps are apparently the size of a thermos!
He IS smaller than a fighter. He's also a lot slower and less maneuvrable (at least SM Clark is).

Yes, he said MT durability, but lasers are high-KT- wouldn't multiple hits do damage?

Err-fighter lasers are single figure KT- do the math.
Oh, and for the record: The Flash wasn't on Smallville. Bart Allen, i.e. Impulse/Kid Flash was. Assuming SM follows DC continuity, which it is by no means bound to do. IF they do, this might be an indication that Clark's superspeed works somewhat similarly to Bart's, whatever its nature.

[Praxis]

For the first time, you're right, he's a bit bigger. But he's still fairly small compared to a fighter.

A bit bigger? X-Wing protorps are apparently the size of a thermos!
He IS smaller than a fighter. He's also a lot slower and less maneuvrable (at least SM Clark is).

Are you sure they're THAT small? Compare to the exhaust port (unless the glows around them are a lot bigger than the torp). They looked like half a meter to a meter each.

Clark is, say, 2 m (just a guess, he could be shorter), compared to a 12.5 m X-wing.

Yes, he said MT durability, but lasers are high-KT- wouldn't multiple hits do damage?

Err-fighter lasers are single figure KT- do the math.
Oh, and for the record: The Flash wasn't on Smallville. Bart Allen, i.e. Impulse/Kid Flash was. Assuming SM follows DC continuity, which it is by no means bound to do. IF they do, this might be an indication that Clark's superspeed works somewhat similarly to Bart's, whatever its nature.

Hm, the sites I've seen must have been misinformed as they labelled him as "The Flash".

[Batman]

For the first time, you're right, he's a bit bigger. But he's still fairly small compared to a fighter.

A bit bigger? X-Wing protorps are apparently the size of a thermos!
He IS smaller than a fighter.
Are you sure they're THAT small? Compare to the exhaust port (unless the glows around them are a lot bigger than the torp). They looked like half a meter to a meter each.

*Sigh* leave alone the canon size of the protorp launcher, DO tell me how you fit those in the X-Wing. Leave alone half a dozen humans,

Clark is, say, 2 m (just a guess, he could be shorter), compared to a 12.5 m X-wing.

I never denied he's a smaller target than a fighter. I howled at your assumption that he's 'a bit' larger than a protorp. Which he is. By quite large a margin.

[ANGELUS]

Ok, I've been doing some research:

Superman, under normal circumstances, can fly to the moon and return to the earth with a single breath.
Source: Superman in Action Comics #696 (feb 1994) page one.

Superman, under normal circumstances can fly across the USA in aproximately four minutes.
Source: The Adventures of Superman #504 (sep 1993) page one. (part of the "Reign of the Supermen" mini series).

The average distance from the earth core to the moon core is approximately 384,400 km.
The average radious of the moon is approximately 1,738 km.
The average radious of the earth is 6,372.67 km.
The approximate distance between Norfolk, Virginia and San Francisco, California is 3,960 km. (about 2,460.6 milles)
Source: The Salvat Encyclopedia and the Reader's Digest World Atlas.

If he can fly 3,960 km. in four minutes then he can fly at 59,408.934 km/h (about 36,915 mi/h).

Then lets do this: 384,400 - 1,738 - 6,372.67 = 376,298.33 km. (number that we will use as average distance from the earth surface to the moon surface).

Now lets 376,298.33 / 59,408.934 = 12.6677 hours

He can survive with a single breath for over twelve and a half hours!!!

I couldn't find almost anything about the other abbilities, but maybe this will be of some use:

Superman once was hit by the blast of a nuclear missile. He survived but the explosion nearly killed him. The real power of the blast was never stated, but Batman said that it was about twelve regular nukes. I don't know how powerfull this missile was, but if we take the most powerful missile thay had back in 1985 and scale it twelve times it is still insignificant next to the regular artillery in a Star Destroyer. So my guess would be that he would be killed by a single blast from a Star Destroyer (if the gunners are able to hit him, let's remember that he is much smaller than a fighter and moves really fast).
Source: Batman, The Dark Knight Returns Book four (1985) (This is not the silver age Superman, it's the post Crisis on Infinite Earths Superman).

Heat vision: dunno, a kriptonian named Gar-El once turned three humans and a sofa into ashes with a sight while yelling "idiots!" at the (the word idiots is usually said in less than a second, so it took Gar-El less than a second to do it).
Source: Superman in Action Comics Annual #6 (1994)

Strengt: The biggest thin I've seen him moving was this very big ship from the beach of Florida, they never say how big it is or how heavy it is, or what kind of ship it is (if it is for passengers, for cargo, for oil...) but it seemed that he had a hard time moving it, and for the looks of it, the ship was at least several hundreds (maybe even thousands) of tons in weight.
Source: Superman #84 (dec 1993)

But of course, this powers belong to the comics Superman, not the Smallville Superman.

[Batman]

Superman once was hit by the blast of a nuclear missile. He survived but the explosion nearly killed him. The real power of the blast was never stated, but Batman said that it was about twelve regular nukes. I don't know how powerfull this missile was, but if we take the most powerful missile thay had back in 1985 and scale it twelve times it is still insignificant next to the regular artillery in a Star Destroyer. So my guess would be that he would be killed by a single blast from a Star Destroyer (if the gunners are able to hit him, let's remember that he is much smaller than a fighter and moves really fast).
Source: Batman, The Dark Knight Returns Book four (1985) (This is not the silver age Superman, it's the post Crisis on Infinite Earths Superman).

No, it's the Dark Knight Returns Superman who is completely non-canon. Not that I recall that 12 'regular' nukes comment from that book. While we're at it what in blazes is an 'irregular' nuke?

Heat vision: dunno, a kriptonian named Gar-El once turned three humans and a sofa into ashes with a sight while yelling "idiots!" at the (the word idiots is usually said in less than a second, so it took Gar-El less than a second to do it).

Three people and a sofa. Are we supposed to be impressed by that? Clark's done so to an entire army of DD lookalikes in the 'The Supergirl from Krypton' storyline, so your point is? Learn how to spell kryptonian, btw.

Strengt: The biggest thin I've seen him moving was this very big ship from the beach of Florida, they never say how big it is or how heavy it is, or what kind of ship it is (if it is for passengers, for cargo, for oil...) but it seemed that he had a hard time moving it, and for the looks of it, the ship was at least several hundreds (maybe even thousands) of tons in weight.

So? Comic Clark can once more move planets.

[Praxis]

I found an interesting page with a listing of different displays of his abilities.
http://theages.superman.ws/Encyclopaedi ... php#breath

Man, the comics really overdo the 'super' thing, don't they?
Super smelling! Super kissing! Super memory! Super ventriloquism! Invulnerable hair!
lol

[Eleas]

Err-fighter lasers are single figure KT- do the math.

Is there an upper limit on fighter-scale lasers? Cause if not, we really have no way to know. Mike's X-Wing calcs were quite conservative.

[Eleas]

Err-fighter lasers are single figure KT- do the math.

Is there an upper limit on fighter-scale lasers? Cause if not, we really have no way to know. Mike's X-Wing calcs were quite conservative.

Err... what I really meant to write was, has there been some calc I've missed that provides an upper limit on these weapons?

[ANGELUS]

No, it's the Dark Knight Returns Superman who is completely non-canon. Not that I recall that 12 'regular' nukes comment from that book. While we're at it what in blazes is an 'irregular' nuke?

Just as I said, I couldn't find much, but I tought this would be useful to learn a little about his powers magnitude, if you don't like that's not my problem.

Three people and a sofa. Are we supposed to be impressed by that?

I'm sorry, did I ever write "I'm trying to impress Batman with this post"?

Learn how to spell kryptonian, btw.

My bad, I read the spanish translation and that's the way they write it.

So? Comic Clark can once more move planets.

Silver age Superman yes, but I've never seen the current one do such a thing.

[Batman]

No, it's the Dark Knight Returns Superman who is completely non-canon. Not that I recall that 12 'regular' nukes comment from that book. While we're at it what in blazes is an 'irregular' nuke?

Just as I said, I couldn't find much, but I tought this would be useful to learn a little about his powers magnitude, if you don't like that's not my problem.

Unfortunately, thanks to never actually having happened, it's useless for doing so, just as the SilverAge wankfest examples would be.

So? Comic Clark can once more move planets.

Silver age Superman yes, but I've never seen the current one do such a thing.

Action Comics 786, February 02, 'Red'.
(paraphrased as I'm working from the german issue)
'I've got enough time. Haven't I? I once moved a world under a red sun'
while thinking to himself. So unless he was bragging to himself, I'm very much afraid he's back to doing it again...

[ANGELUS]

Action Comics 786, February 02, 'Red'.
(paraphrased as I'm working from the german issue)
'I've got enough time. Haven't I? I once moved a world under a red sun'
while thinking to himself. So unless he was bragging to himself, I'm very much afraid he's back to doing it again...

Point taken, I haven`t read that issue yet.

[Connor MacLeod]

Car at 60 MPH energy:

60 MPH = ~100 km/h = ~28 m/s
mass of car = (I'm guessing here because I don't actually know but )lets say 8000 kg, which should be a pretty big overestimate.
KE=(1/2)m(v*v)
KE=8000/2*28*28
KE=3136000 joules or 3.1 MJ

A modern car could easily be far less massive than that.. 1000-2000 kg is more likely a range.

[Connor MacLeod]

Err-fighter lasers are single figure KT- do the math.

Is there an upper limit on fighter-scale lasers? Cause if not, we really have no way to know. Mike's X-Wing calcs were quite conservative.

Err... what I really meant to write was, has there been some calc I've missed that provides an upper limit on these weapons?

The reactor output of the craft in question, but smaller fighters seem to rarely be able to carry the sort of power-distribution systems that allows them to take advantage of more than a small part of that.

Theoretically a starfighter could output as much as e17 watts (megaton range, in other words), but vast size disaparity between capital ships and fighters (and hence a vast difference in the efficiency of systems) means that typically fighters won't utilize more than a percent of that energy for weapons, and probably far less.

Ion cannons might be able to (after all, ion engines, which are similar in principle, output that much energy), which might explain why (for example) B-wings mount ion cannons as a heavy armament.

[Connor MacLeod]

Err-fighter lasers are single figure KT- do the math.

Per "shot". If you recall, fighter lasers can fire upwards of fifteen-twenty shots per second (Slave-1 in AOTC and MF in ANH) against other starfighters.

Moreover, we know canonically that an AT-AT can fire shots well into the tens to hundreds of kilotons per shot range at maximum firepower (TESB), and starfighters aren't all THAT much more massive than an AT-AT (esp when you consider the AT-AT also doubles as a troop carrier.)

[Batman]

Err-fighter lasers are single figure KT- do the math.

Per "shot". If you recall, fighter lasers can fire upwards of fifteen-twenty shots per second (Slave-1 in AOTC and MF in ANH) against other starfighters.

Which still means they'll need hundreds to thousands of shots to achieve MT damage. That's all I was saying.

Moreover, we know canonically that an AT-AT can fire shots well into the tens to hundreds of kilotons per shot range at maximum firepower (TESB), and starfighters aren't all THAT much more massive than an AT-AT (esp when you consider the AT-AT also doubles as a troop carrier.)

You propably meant less massive but I see your point. IF fighter weapons carry that kind of oomph that would naturally make a difference. I was using the typically assumed value.

[Praxis]

Err-fighter lasers are single figure KT- do the math.

Per "shot". If you recall, fighter lasers can fire upwards of fifteen-twenty shots per second (Slave-1 in AOTC and MF in ANH) against other starfighters.

Which still means they'll need hundreds to thousands of shots to achieve MT damage. That's all I was saying.

You are correct. For some reason I was under the impression that some fighters had high-kiloton yields, but a quick look through the SW2ICS disproved me.

[Connor MacLeod]

Which still means they'll need hundreds to thousands of shots to achieve MT damage. That's all I was saying.

Which only takes about a minute or so, tops to achieve.. How is that a problem exactly?

You propably meant less massive but I see your point. IF fighter weapons carry that kind of oomph that would naturally make a difference. I was using the typically assumed value.

No, I meant what I said. Is there all that much a diff in mass between a heavily armored vehicle like a tank and a fighter-aircraft or fighter-bomber? Not really.

Besides, what I should have referred to was volume, not mass. Doesn't really change the fundamental point, though. If an X-wing's lasers had a sustained output comparable to an AT-AT, it could take conceivably *much* less time to achieve the Mt-range damage you claim.
Hell, even 10 kt/shot would be enough.

[Batman]

Which still means they'll need hundreds to thousands of shots to achieve MT damage. That's all I was saying.

Which only takes about a minute or so, tops to achieve.. How is that a problem exactly?

For a single MT. And I doubt Clark is going to sit still and let himself be bombarded for a minute or five.

You propably meant less massive but I see your point. IF fighter weapons carry that kind of oomph that would naturally make a difference. I was using the typically assumed value.

No, I meant what I said. Is there all that much a diff in mass between a heavily armored vehicle like a tank and a fighter-aircraft or fighter-bomber? Not really.

Er-yes? About a factor of three on avergage I'd say, and it's always the tank that is heavier. Which is why I assumed it's the other way round.
And that's totally ignoring the enormous size difference between an X-Wing and an AT-AT. In real life it's usually the aircraft that is larger. Furthermore, a reasonable percentage of the mass of the airplane is external stores. Excepting the occasionally used external fuel tanks, X-Wings don't HAVE external stores.

Besides, what I should have referred to was volume, not mass.

See above. The AT-AT has easily 20 times the volume of an X-Wing.

Doesn't really change the fundamental point, though. If an X-wing's lasers had a sustained output comparable to an AT-AT, it could take conceivably *much* less time to achieve the Mt-range damage you claim.
Hell, even 10 kt/shot would be enough.

Which is why I agreed to that point.

[Batman]

Another thought-those 20 shots per second are burst ROF. How long can X-Wings keep that up?