Tommy J wrote:Praxis wrote:Coruscant has TWO LAYERS of shields divided into little sections, and they never drop two sections directly over one another at the same time. They open a hole in the top layer, let a ship through, CLOSE IT, then open a whole in the bottom layer, let the ship through, and close it, then reopen the top.
You know that because it's a part of dialogue, or specifically stated verbatium in a novel or because it would simply be logical to execute it that way?
Thus, I've never heard the 2-shield statement in dialogue in any of the two films.
Regardss, If it's the first or latter, people make mistakes in execution of such procedures.
It's specificly stated in the book where the Rebel Alliance conquers Coruscant.
And even a perfect cloak is vulnerable to CGT sensors- they detect the minutest of gravitic fluctuations. We know from the episode where Ro and LaForge were phase-cloaked that phase cloaked ships and people are STILL AFFECTED BY GRAVITY. Even when PHASE cloaked, let alone normal cloaking. Therefore, the ship WILL be picked up by CGT sensors.
I've never argued phase cloaks for a # of resons, because it was a stupid plot device in the Episode.
Yes, but as I said, cloaked ships are STILL affected by gravity. Unless you're going to tell me that a cloaked BOP could fly through a Black Hole. Oh wait...didn't Kirk use the Sun's gravity to Slingshot? Didn't Worf's Klingon captain use the suns gravity in the Klingon Civil War? Cloaks are affected by gravity and therefore by CGT sensors.
I was using the ST Insurrection red cloaking suits.
So was I.
http://stardestroyer.net/Insurrection/#Cloak
Personal Cloaking Devices
Analysis
Much has been made of the personal cloaking devices which were seen in the opening sequence of STI. However, we can see in the film that they are actually not true cloaking devices. Instead, they are using some sort of large-scale hologram system, to create the illusion of invisibility. How do we arrive at this conclusion, which will undoubtedly be hotly contested? There are two critical pieces of substantiating evidence.
1.
When the observation post's camouflage hologram was disrupted by Data's phaser fire, all of the operatives simultaneously became visible. This indicates that the invisibility of all operatives was dependent upon a central facility.
2.
"Cloaked" operatives still cast shadows, as seen in the first screenshot below. This indicates that the objects are not truly invisible. If they were, they would not cast shadows, even when viewed using an advanced sensor system. One could always argue that the "cloaked" operatives are blocking something other than visible light (such as one of the Federation cultists' never-ending new forms of technobabble subspace-related radiation), but the shadows are clearly being cast in the same direction as the shadows being cast by the buildings, plants, etc. They are therefore being caused by the blockage of light being emitted by that planet's sun.
Apparently, Michael Jackson's 1980's orange-neon fashions have become popular again in the 24th century.
The importance of this evidence cannot be overstated. The camouflage hologram, which was concealing the observation post, disintegrated in a chain reaction after being damaged by Data's phaser (thus leading to some interesting questions on the nature of Federation holograms). As it disintegrated, so too did the invisibility of the Federation operatives in the Ba'ku village.
The hologram system must do more than merely create the illusion of invisibility. It must also "paint out" shadows, so that the Ba'ku villagers would be unaware of both the operatives and their shadows. We must conclude that the system is capable of producing light of any arbitrary frequency and direction, so that it can simulate the effect of light passing through a person even though it is actually being stopped. It can also simulate sunlight incident upon the ground even when the sunlight is actually being blocked. This is not surprising- Federation holodecks require precise control over the frequency and direction of projected photons in order to create believable illusions, and it is not inconceivable that they could be manipulated to create this illusion.
Time for a nap.We can see that a damaged suit exhibits partial visibility, and full visibility in the region where the fabric has actually been torn away.
Now you see me, now you don't!When Data began removing his suit, portions of his body became completely visible while the portions inside the orange suit were still hidden.
The preceding screenshots would appear to suggest that the suits themselves do contribute to the invisibility effect, even though they are still dependent upon the central projection system. It is possible that the orange colour was not an arbitrary choice. Since a bright orange hue like that is highly unnatural, it is unlikely to be found in the village. The hologram system may be cueing on the orange colour, to help it "paint out" the operatives. This would be analogous to the "blue-screen" technique used in 20th century film making, to seamlessly insert a two dimensional image into a background.
Conclusion
We can predict numerous operational limitations of this technology:
1.
Invisible operatives will still visible to advanced sensor systems, as demonstrated by the fact that they could be easily seen on the observation post's view screen. They are only invisible to the naked eye.
2.
Since the system depends on the operation of a central facility, these suits cannot simply be donned and used as portable cloaking devices for landing parties or boarding parties.
3.
Since the system "paints over" operatives and their shadows to create the illusion of invisibility, anything which disrupts holograms would also disrupt the cloaking effect.
