Borg vs. ISD

[Metahive]

Too late to edit this in, goshdangit!

I have done some searching and found out that the Think Thank ship in the VOY episode of the same name had armor composed of neutronium alloy as well, yet beaming on and from it was not a problem. I think we can deduce from that that neutronium or alloys made of it don't stop scanrays and transporters by itself, but have to be present in sufficient quantity as well. Durasteel is an alloy made partly from neutronium, carbon and a bunch of fantasy metals, it's however premature to say it can stop transporters.
The Doomsday Machine and the Dyson Sphere had after all a much thicker shell than a Star Destroyer.

[Baffalo]

Deleted

[Stark]

Too late to edit this in, goshdangit!

I have done some searching and found out that the Think Thank ship in the VOY episode of the same name had armor composed of neutronium alloy as well, yet beaming on and from it was not a problem. I think we can deduce from that that neutronium or alloys made of it don't stop scanrays and transporters by itself, but have to be present in sufficient quantity as well. Durasteel is an alloy made partly from neutronium, carbon and a bunch of fantasy metals, it's however premature to say it can stop transporters.
The Doomsday Machine and the Dyson Sphere had after all a much thicker shell than a Star Destroyer.

Or maybe a society with transporters builds relays into the hull? Uh oh.

The think tank was only 'neutronium' if you're a fucking idiot anyway.

I love your stupidity at the end. Man, I remember all those times they beamed aboard the doomsday machine and from one side of the dyson sphere to the other - that was epic!

ITT the only thing you can't beam through is 'solid neutronium' because Metahive says so, even though you can't beam through natural ores and electrical equipment, let alone jamming.

[Metahive]

Or maybe a society with transporters builds relays into the hull? Uh oh.

Cough up evidence for that or fuck off.

The think tank was only 'neutronium' if you're a fucking idiot anyway.

How about forming sentences beyond third grade level?

I love your stupidity at the end. Man, I remember all those times they beamed aboard the doomsday machine and from one side of the dyson sphere to the other - that was epic!

If you have nothing but trolling to offer, you're invited to cut your own balls of and eat 'em. No, let me do that for you, o wait, yours were stolen years ago by a roving gang of Ewoks.

ITT the only thing you can't beam through is 'solid neutronium' because Metahive says so, even though you can't beam through natural ores and electrical equipment, let alone jamming.

First of all we are talking about transport-proof armor here, so you can stick that "jamming" Red Herring inside your voluminous ass. Second I'm saying that "Solid Neutronium" and whatever Hirogen ships are made of are the only times that ship armor presented an obstacle to beaming (or sensor scans, which has the same result).

This is the last time we to interact here, from now I will ignore your posts. You never have anything worthwhile to say anyway, trollface.

For the record, I didn't even bring up the example of neutronium.

[Metahive]

I've just watched "The Doomsday Machine" again, just to make sure. Solid Neutronium actually doesn't even stop scanrays, as Spock manages to get information on the innards of the Planet Killer and says that more in-depth scans just require getting closer to it which he only advises against due to the aggressive nature of the robotic ship.

So, looking a few posts back:

Another thing, I remember reading somewhere that one of the components of durasteel (the material used for starship hulls and armor in SW) is neutronium, which Trek ships have never been able to damage, scan through, or transport through.

It's actually not backed by canon evidence, at least not that neutronium alone is enough to thwart such efforts. While solid neutronium is durable enough to withstand ST weapon fire without showing any signs of damage, it doesn't block scans, so beaming through it might still be a possibility, something that is supported by the episode Think Thank.

So far, examples of metals, minerals and alloys that have successfully blocked transporter beams are the monotanium armor of Hirogen ships (due to scrambling incoming transmissions) and the mineral found in the mountains of the Fountain of Youth planet in STIX. If anyone has additional examples of minerals, metals and alloys that block transporter beams or scanrays or data from which to calculate what the maximum density of material is that scanrays and transporter beams can penetrate, feel free to add, I'm sure there are more that I just now can't think of.
Then we can look more into if or how an ISD's durasteel armor could block it as well.

EDIT:
What people should not forget, while the ST transporter is often kept from working on many occasions with rather flimsy justifactions, there are many more occasions were the thing actually works as intended and with impressive results as well, as in the Tantalus IV and Janus VI examples. So it's slightly unfair to rag on it as a POS technology that's thwarted by the slightest sign of difficulties.

[Metahive]

Sorry for posting again so soon, but I got my hand on Dagger of the Mind and did some calculations. According to what is presented on screen, the elevator that leads into the Penal Colony takes 20 seconds of real time (no cuts in the footage) to reach the entrance, 15 of which at unusually high speed (as noted by the characters) and the remaining 5 to slow down. Real life elevators travel at speeds that range from 1-10m/s, depending on the height of the building and I took the freedom to use those numbers to do my calcs here.
Assuming 5m/s as the lowest possible and 10m/s as the highest possible speed of the elevator, that places the penal colony at a depth of around 90-180 meters. Someone who's better at calculating such things please correct me. As noted later Spock directly beams from the Enterprise down to the Penal Colony without problems.

There's however a slight problem and that is that the remastered version of this episode presents the above earth entrance like this:



Which makes it look like the colony is just at the bottom of a particularly large gorge, potentially implying that the transporter doesn't have to penetrate all that much rock at all. In the old version the same entrance looked like this:



which put a whole lot of Earth above it. So, which one should we go by here?

Regardless, let's assume for simplicity's sake that the whole ground above the colony is just one type of earth-like rock and that the planet has the same gravity as Earth. Average density of most common Earth rocks like granite, basalt, limestone etc. is around 2.5-3.0 tonnes per cubic meter. I unfortunately don't feel up to the task to calculate just how much material a transporter would have to penetrate here, so if one of the more mathematically capable members on this board could help out, I'd most appreciate it.

[Norade]

We know that common as dirt radiation can block transports, as well as shields, random storms, the thing breaking or otherwise acting up, funky rocks, some hull materials, the wind blowing the wrong way, sabotage, acts of Q, writers block, and acts of plot. Even in this gimped scenario I think that the ISd should be able to generate enough EMP and likely get at least some level of shielding online at a level capable of repelling the Borg. But even if not if a single Skipray launches the cube is fucked anyway because they're said to be able to put out light capital ship grade firepower.

Then again we also see your most impressive example has them teleporting through a gazebo so that's not saying much anyway.

[Metahive]

We know that common as dirt radiation can block transports, as well as shields, random storms, the thing breaking or otherwise acting up, funky rocks, some hull materials, the wind blowing the wrong way, sabotage, acts of Q, writers block, and acts of plot. Even in this gimped scenario I think that the ISd should be able to generate enough EMP and likely get at least some level of shielding online at a level capable of repelling the Borg. But even if not if a single Skipray launches the cube is fucked anyway because they're said to be able to put out light capital ship grade firepower.

Thank you for being utterly unhelpful. Somehow somehow they'll get their shit together in time and PWN the Borg because that's how God meant it to be and never shall that law of universal crossovers be violated. O yeah, and trek-tech sucks balls and always will.

Then again we also see your most impressive example has them teleporting through a gazebo so that's not saying much anyway.

Only if you use the remastered episodes, and they're non-canon as far as I'm concerned. So have you interest in calculating what transporters are capable of or or contributing something useful or not? If not just go away, you're only wasting time. Just saying "Imps PWN Borg lol" for sure doesn't need to repeated for the 10000000000th+ time.

[Metahive]

In addition (boy, having too much free time at the moment sucks), Norade, you were the one who brought up the "beaming through ISD armor equals beaming through x meters of rock", so don't chide me for actually trying to look behind that. As far as I know, nobody has yet made any official calculations as to how much material a transporter can reach, so why not bring a bit more light into the affair now?

Also something more fundamental, I don't need to be convinced that the Borg would lose to the Empire. I got that about a decade ago, so people don't need to remind of it every other post. As I already said, my goal is to write a scenario that believably gives both sides in this conflict an even chance to success. If it turns out that the Imps need to be hit with too high a handicap then o well, so much for that, but right now I'm not yet quite convinced of that. After all, the "far away from home on a damaged ship defending against aggressive natives" scenario is not foreign to sci-fi writing and makes for an interesting experience. Heck, Voyager was the most advanced ship when they first stranded in the Delta Quadrant too, so why not do it right, only with an ISD instead of a wimpy Intrepid class starship.

[Norade]

We know that common as dirt radiation can block transports, as well as shields, random storms, the thing breaking or otherwise acting up, funky rocks, some hull materials, the wind blowing the wrong way, sabotage, acts of Q, writers block, and acts of plot. Even in this gimped scenario I think that the ISd should be able to generate enough EMP and likely get at least some level of shielding online at a level capable of repelling the Borg. But even if not if a single Skipray launches the cube is fucked anyway because they're said to be able to put out light capital ship grade firepower.

Thank you for being utterly unhelpful. Somehow somehow they'll get their shit together in time and PWN the Borg because that's how God meant it to be and never shall that law of universal crossovers be violated. O yeah, and trek-tech sucks balls and always will.

We're debating about the Borg being able to take on a severely crippled ISD using tactics we never see in the show and we know that transporters are unreliable hunks of ass that don't work most days ending in y and twice on days were they're involved in the plot. However due to the simple discrepancy in firepower a single torpedo boat of the Empire can still kill the cube and likely do so without expending it's entire warhead supply.

Then again we also see your most impressive example has them teleporting through a gazebo so that's not saying much anyway.

Only if you use the remastered episodes, and they're non-canon as far as I'm concerned. So have you interest in calculating what transporters are capable of or or contributing something useful or not? If not just go away, you're only wasting time. Just saying "Imps PWN Borg lol" for sure doesn't need to repeated for the 10000000000th+ time.

So you set cannon policy now? As far as I'm concerned there is no reason for the new not to overwrite the old. In the new scene they teleport through less than a meter of material and in most episodes they have some passageway which may or may not be blocked to beam through thus reducing the volume of material they actually transport through.

In addition (boy, having too much free time at the moment sucks), Norade, you were the one who brought up the "beaming through ISD armor equals beaming through x meters of rock", so don't chide me for actually trying to look behind that. As far as I know, nobody has yet made any official calculations as to how much material a transporter can reach, so why not bring a bit more light into the affair now?

Great, you have the free time so go find out if they can teleport through nearly 100m of solid rock it's not up to me to show that they can.

Also something more fundamental, I don't need to be convinced that the Borg would lose to the Empire. I got that about a decade ago, so people don't need to remind of it every other post. As I already said, my goal is to write a scenario that believably gives both sides in this conflict an even chance to success. If it turns out that the Imps need to be hit with too high a handicap then o well, so much for that, but right now I'm not yet quite convinced of that. After all, the "far away from home on a damaged ship defending against aggressive natives" scenario is not foreign to sci-fi writing and makes for an interesting experience. Heck, Voyager was the most advanced ship when they first stranded in the Delta Quadrant too, so why not do it right, only with an ISD instead of a wimpy Intrepid class starship.

The scenario still isn't interesting as even a handful of surviving transports and fighters, let alone a Skipray, will be enough to see the cube off without breaking a sweat. Not to mention that the Borg will die in the thousands to rapid fire weapons, grenades, tactics, and other great things they never once face in Trek.

[Metahive]

We're debating about the Borg being able to take on a severely crippled ISD using tactics we never see in the show and we know that transporters are unreliable hunks of ass that don't work most days ending in y and twice on days were they're involved in the plot. However due to the simple discrepancy in firepower a single torpedo boat of the Empire can still kill the cube and likely do so without expending it's entire warhead supply.

Why did you even bring up that whole hooplah about ISD armor = x meters of rock when you think the transporters will malfunction anyway? Also fine, consider all possible pilots for those ships to have come down with a crippling flu and the ships being leased to the ISD PlotContrivance that day, or at least until we got that whole transporter business out of the way.
I already said I don't consider myself qualified to make those calculations, do you? Just yes or no please, no more cheap Impish gloating.

So you set cannon policy now? As far as I'm concerned there is no reason for the new not to overwrite the old.

So you set canon policy now? As far as I'm concerned there is no reason for the new to overwrite the old.

Look, Dagger of the Mind gives a good chance to calculate trek transporter capabilities, since unlike all other underground beaming affairs, this one offers the rare opportunity to extrapolate just how deep beneath the earth they are. So stop being a spoilsport. You can start a dozen other threads where you can bash Trek weakness as much as you want, but please try and suppress that urge here.

[Norade]

We're debating about the Borg being able to take on a severely crippled ISD using tactics we never see in the show and we know that transporters are unreliable hunks of ass that don't work most days ending in y and twice on days were they're involved in the plot. However due to the simple discrepancy in firepower a single torpedo boat of the Empire can still kill the cube and likely do so without expending it's entire warhead supply.

Why did you even bring up that whole hooplah about ISD armor = x meters of rock when you think the transporters will malfunction anyway? Also fine, consider all possible pilots for those ships to have come down with a crippling flu and the ships being leased to the ISD PlotContrivance that day, or at least until we got that whole transporter business out of the way.
I already said I don't consider myself qualified to make those calculations, do you? Just yes or no please, no more cheap Impish gloating.

Transports are unreliable, we know they fail to function in many situations and that the ISD even on reserve power should still be able to produce at least some measure of anti-transport defense even if just by running the shields at 1% power. Having the Borg beam people on and off of the ship at will doesn't make for a fun scenario, nor does gimping the ISD to the point where the Borg should win by simply beaming everybody into space. It;s obvious you're typing this drivel one handed and I'm only responding because your bitter Trekie tears are humorous.

Besides we've cut what from the ISD now, FTL, Sublight, Repulsors, main power, weapons, shields, a large percentage of the crew, fighters, sensors, more that I may have missed? Even with no pilots starships are common enough that most aboard and ISD should be able to jump in and figure it out, not like it should take much to lock on and let fly until the Cube goes away. Hell, get desperate enough and strap a bunch or armed torpedoes to a fighter and have some volunteer do the job.

As for doing any math on your behalf, no, I won't. You go fucking look at screen caps and measure pixels of dirt yourself as I would rather save my energy and not waste my time. If you're too stupid and lazy to do it yourself than concede and let this abortion of a topic die already.

So you set cannon policy now? As far as I'm concerned there is no reason for the new not to overwrite the old.

So you set canon policy now? As far as I'm concerned there is no reason for the new to overwrite the old.

Look, Dagger of the Mind gives a good chance to calculate trek transporter capabilities, since unlike all other underground beaming affairs, this one offers the rare opportunity to extrapolate just how deep beneath the earth they are. So stop being a spoilsport. You can start a dozen other threads where you can bash Trek weakness as much as you want, but please try and suppress that urge here.

No, the episode in question shows them passing through a stone building with a roof maybe a meter thick if I were to be generous. You can wish they never saw fit to change it all you want and screech until you're blue about it, but they clearly transported through a stone hut and not any distance through dirt and rock. So kindly go fuck yourself and stop shifting goalposts you worthless palm fucker.

[Metahive]

Transports are unreliable, we know they fail to function in many situations and that the ISD even on reserve power should still be able to produce at least some measure of anti-transport defense even if just by running the shields at 1% power. Having the Borg beam people on and off of the ship at will doesn't make for a fun scenario, nor does gimping the ISD to the point where the Borg should win by simply beaming everybody into space. It;s obvious you're typing this drivel one handed and I'm only responding because your bitter Trekie tears are humorous.

O, so that's it. You're offended that a treknology might give ST the edge in certain situations, so you angrily try to browbeat anyone proposing something to that effect. Say, you haven't mistaken pulpy sci-fi entertainment for a honest-to-good religion, have you?
O, and tears? What did I say a few posts back?

Ahem, that could be said about any "Universe X vs Universe Y" contests. Just think about it, it's a pointless, excessive exercise since in the end it's just the writer of any vs. story who alone can casually and ultimately decide who wins and loses, no matter how much "canon evidence" there might stacked against him. What's the worst thing going to happen? Nerds whining about it? The humanity!

It pays off to not forget that because, you know, getting flamed on a messageboard is not what I consider to be a particularly threatening prospect.
Despite your allegiations, I'm not here to avenge Trek against ye Mighty Star Wars Universe, I time and again stressed what my goal here is. If you think that's not worth the time, then fine, nobody forces you to participate and spend your own personal 2 cents. Purple managed to express that opinion without being a verbose timewaste of a wanker.

Besides we've cut what from the ISD now, FTL, Sublight, Repulsors, main power, weapons, shields, a large percentage of the crew, fighters, sensors, more that I may have missed? Even with no pilots starships are common enough that most aboard and ISD should be able to jump in and figure it out, not like it should take much to lock on and let fly until the Cube goes away. Hell, get desperate enough and strap a bunch or armed torpedoes to a fighter and have some volunteer do the job.

O noes! I dared and gimped and the almighty ISD! It's like I carved the heart out of poor widdle Norade's chest! Quick! Set heavy turbolasers on target!

As for doing any math on your behalf, no, I won't. You go fucking look at screen caps and measure pixels of dirt yourself as I would rather save my energy and not waste my time. If you're too stupid and lazy to do it yourself than concede and let this abortion of a topic die already.

Yeah, why just say no when you can also be an obnoxious prick about it? Also, what am I to concede exactly? That you are a shithead? Any time of the day.

No, the episode in question shows them passing through a stone building with a roof maybe a meter thick if I were to be generous. You can wish they never saw fit to change it all you want and screech until you're blue about it, but they clearly transported through a stone hut and not any distance through dirt and rock. So kindly go fuck yourself and stop shifting goalposts you worthless palm fucker.

Okay, have you just been hit with a bad case of oblivious stupidity? Even in the remastered cut, they still take an elevator downwards, the colony is far beneath the entryway! Heavens, have you even watched the episode? Did you really think the colony is all cramped inside that little stone building TARDIS style? Hey, that would make treknology quite awesome again since they now can somehow bend time and space at will. I salute you.

That...just blew my mind.

[Norade]

Transports are unreliable, we know they fail to function in many situations and that the ISD even on reserve power should still be able to produce at least some measure of anti-transport defense even if just by running the shields at 1% power. Having the Borg beam people on and off of the ship at will doesn't make for a fun scenario, nor does gimping the ISD to the point where the Borg should win by simply beaming everybody into space. It;s obvious you're typing this drivel one handed and I'm only responding because your bitter Trekie tears are humorous.

O, so that's it. You're offended that a treknology might give ST the edge in certain situations, so you angrily try to browbeat anyone proposing something to that effect. Say, you haven't mistaken pulpy sci-fi entertainment for a honest-to-good religion, have you?
O, and tears? What did I say a few posts back?

Ahem, that could be said about any "Universe X vs Universe Y" contests. Just think about it, it's a pointless, excessive exercise since in the end it's just the writer of any vs. story who alone can casually and ultimately decide who wins and loses, no matter how much "canon evidence" there might stacked against him. What's the worst thing going to happen? Nerds whining about it? The humanity!

It pays off to not forget that because, you know, getting flamed on a messageboard is not what I consider to be a particularly threatening prospect.
Despite your allegiations, I'm not here to avenge Trek against ye Mighty Star Wars Universe, I time and again stressed what my goal here is. If you think that's not worth the time, then fine, nobody forces you to participate and spend your own personal 2 cents. Purple managed to express that opinion without being a verbose timewaste of a wanker.

Transporters are simply too unreliable to be considered an asset in any Wars v Trek battle, until you can show an example that has not been retconned away of them beaming through high density materials meters in thickness laced with exotic particles, or even through a few hundred meters of dirt then we can't assume transporters to work. If by act of Q they do work then the fight is simply no contest and the Borg win without even having to land a single drone.

Your stated goal is to make an interesting scenario and a scenario where one side is crippled so heavily the other side need do no more than think is hardly that and it seems that everybody in this thread besides you can see that.

Besides we've cut what from the ISD now, FTL, Sublight, Repulsors, main power, weapons, shields, a large percentage of the crew, fighters, sensors, more that I may have missed? Even with no pilots starships are common enough that most aboard and ISD should be able to jump in and figure it out, not like it should take much to lock on and let fly until the Cube goes away. Hell, get desperate enough and strap a bunch or armed torpedoes to a fighter and have some volunteer do the job.

O noes! I dared and gimped and the almighty ISD! It's like I carved the heart out of poor widdle Norade's chest! Quick! Set heavy turbolasers on target!

You haven't gimped it, you've gutted it, skinned it, and let it rot a while just so you can say that things normally as insignificant as flys can have a chance at harming it. It would be like me making a scenario about taking you, paralyzing you, cutting out your eyes, lacerating your skin, and then letting insects crawl over your gangrenous flesh. It might be interesting for a little while, but in the end it's nothing more than sick fantasy best left in the imagination of the mind that spawned it.

As for doing any math on your behalf, no, I won't. You go fucking look at screen caps and measure pixels of dirt yourself as I would rather save my energy and not waste my time. If you're too stupid and lazy to do it yourself than concede and let this abortion of a topic die already.

Yeah, why just say no when you can also be an obnoxious prick about it? Also, what am I to concede exactly? That you are a shithead? Any time of the day.

Burdens on you to show the Borg transporting through solid rock nearly 100m thick.

No, the episode in question shows them passing through a stone building with a roof maybe a meter thick if I were to be generous. You can wish they never saw fit to change it all you want and screech until you're blue about it, but they clearly transported through a stone hut and not any distance through dirt and rock. So kindly go fuck yourself and stop shifting goalposts you worthless palm fucker.

Okay, have you just been hit with a bad case of oblivious stupidity? Even in the remastered cut, they still take an elevator downwards, the colony is far beneath the entryway! Heavens, have you even watched the episode? Did you really think the colony is all cramped inside that little stone building TARDIS style? Hey, that would make treknology quite awesome again since they now can somehow bend time and space at will. I salute you.

That...just blew my mind.

How dense is the air filling an elevator shaft numbnuts? Oh, not very? So you mean they teleported through some stone and then an insignificant volume of air and elevator. Mercy me, that is so much more dense than an ISD's hull. Not! Seriously, this example shows nothing more than your stupidity and inability to think of a better example. Then again this entire thread is an exercise in you doing your best to create a scenario where a crippled and already dying warrior gets beaten by a barely mobile geriatric so why should it surprise me that you're too lazy to do anything than defend the same worthless example over and over again.

EDIT: That elevator shaft would need to go down through about 15.5km for the air* to match the density of the SD's hull. However as Humans can't survive that deep they can't have done that.

*Sea density air.

[Imperial528]

I'd like to point out that the over-abundance of ions or sufficiently strong electromagnetic fields (such as those found in the atmosphere) can cause transporters to malfunction and become unreliable, so if the scenario starts with the ISD being damaged, it is quite possible that radiation leaking from the ISD will prevent transporter locks in large swaths of the ship.

[Norade]

I'd like to point out that the over-abundance of ions or sufficiently strong electromagnetic fields (such as those found in the atmosphere) can cause transporters to malfunction and become unreliable, so if the scenario starts with the ISD being damaged, it is quite possible that radiation leaking from the ISD will prevent transporter locks in large swaths of the ship.

Good point, but he wants this scenario as one sided as possible and has ignored any efforts towards pointing out the fact that transporters may not work in any scenario involving an ISD.

EDIT: Hell when Metahive hijacks a thread and then fells the need to remove the fighters on top of everything else you know he won't rest until the Borg can get a single lone win in one horrible contrived to the point where it isn't interesting scenario. Honestly I hope he gets at least a warning for his wall of ignorance refusal to submit evidence style.

[Metahive]

Transporters are simply too unreliable to be considered an asset in any Wars v Trek battle, until you can show an example that has not been retconned away of them beaming through high density materials meters in thickness laced with exotic particles, or even through a few hundred meters of dirt then we can't assume transporters to work. If by act of Q they do work then the fight is simply no contest and the Borg win without even having to land a single drone.

Your stated goal is to make an interesting scenario and a scenario where one side is crippled so heavily the other side need do no more than think is hardly that and it seems that everybody in this thread besides you can see that.

Ad hoc assumptions and strawmen. Worthless as usual.

Also, you've now proven sufficiently enough you aren't bothering to read even half the words I write, asshole.

You haven't gimped it, you've gutted it, skinned it, and let it rot a while just so you can say that things normally as insignificant as flys can have a chance at harming it. It would be like me making a scenario about taking you, paralyzing you, cutting out your eyes, lacerating your skin, and then letting insects crawl over your gangrenous flesh. It might be interesting for a little while, but in the end it's nothing more than sick fantasy best left in the imagination of the mind that spawned it.

Cry me a river.

Burdens on you to show the Borg transporting through solid rock nearly 100m thick.

Already at it, you just keep ignoring it in favor of butthurt whining.

How dense is the air filling an elevator shaft numbnuts? [...] That elevator shaft would need to go down through about 15.5km for the air* to match the density of the SD's hull. However as Humans can't survive that deep thy can't have done that.

First you give the Federation Time Lord powers, now you even give the transporter the capability to be finely directed a 'la Darkseid's Omega Beams. Fine then, the Borg will just direct all their transporter beams through the shitload of windows on the Star Destroyer and bypass your precious armor that way and the Imps can thank you for giving them that idea.
Also, just a few posts ago you claimed ISD armor equaled ~100 meters of rock and now it's suddenly 15 kms and you don't show even a single calculation although I already provided all the raw numbers you keep crying for? Man, do you think everyone is as unattentive as you?

Hell when Metahive hijacks a thread

Hijack? Doesn't the very thread title say Borg vs ISD, how's it hijacking when I concoct scenarios involving just that? Add thread hijacking to the myriad things to big for your atrophied brain to understand.

Dumbass.

It's clear you have no interest whatsoever to actually discuss this and just wish to spam this thread with half-cocked posturing.

[Batman]

Man, do you think everyone is as unattentive as you?

...says the person who can't tell Norade is talking about 15.5 km of air, not rock, when he explicitly says so.

[Eternal_Freedom]

I'm tempted to throw this out there:

We're talking about Borg transporters, which IIRc have been shown to be substantially better than Feddie transporters and haven't demonstrated vulnerability to radiation and similar problems that fucks up the Enterprise's day

[Srelex]

Indeed. Haven't they beamed through shields once, back in Q Who? I may be misremembering.

[Stark]

It was only during a certain peroid they were able to do so; its a major plot point they can't later. That doesn't speak much to their ability to handle interference.

[Big Phil]

The Borg can beam through FEDERATION shields, which as ST Generations canonically shows operate on specific frequencies, much like everything else in the Federation (including, most likely, shoes, tennis balls, weights, food, and Picard's anal lube). Given that the Borg ability to "adapt" appears to be predicated on their opponent having similar/lower power levels, and operating on specific frequencies that they can defend against/attack through, it's unlikely they'll ever be able to "adapt" to the ISD's brute force plasma weapons and hypermatter-powered shields. While I don't know the specifics of SW shields, they don't appear to operate on any frequencies, they just possess a certain level of power they can handle.

[Norade]

Transporters are simply too unreliable to be considered an asset in any Wars v Trek battle, until you can show an example that has not been retconned away of them beaming through high density materials meters in thickness laced with exotic particles, or even through a few hundred meters of dirt then we can't assume transporters to work. If by act of Q they do work then the fight is simply no contest and the Borg win without even having to land a single drone.

Your stated goal is to make an interesting scenario and a scenario where one side is crippled so heavily the other side need do no more than think is hardly that and it seems that everybody in this thread besides you can see that.

Ad hoc assumptions and strawmen. Worthless as usual.

Also, you've now proven sufficiently enough you aren't bothering to read even half the words I write, asshole.

You should be lucky if people read half of what you type when you fail to post anything interesting or relevant half of the time and the other half you spend trying to be holier than thou to anybody who posts anything that slightly disagrees with you.

Anyway, you've once again failed to prove that transporters can beam through exotic and highly dense materials equal to many meters of solid rock and wet earth.

<snip worthless attempt to insult me>

Burdens on you to show the Borg transporting through solid rock nearly 100m thick.

Already at it, you just keep ignoring it in favor of butthurt whining.

Hardly, you just keep repeating yourself over and over again and screeching that I'm ignoring you.

How dense is the air filling an elevator shaft numbnuts? [...] That elevator shaft would need to go down through about 15.5km for the air* to match the density of the SD's hull. However as Humans can't survive that deep thy can't have done that.

First you give the Federation Time Lord powers, now you even give the transporter the capability to be finely directed a 'la Darkseid's Omega Beams. Fine then, the Borg will just direct all their transporter beams through the shitload of windows on the Star Destroyer and bypass your precious armor that way and the Imps can thank you for giving them that idea.
Also, just a few posts ago you claimed ISD armor equaled ~100 meters of rock and now it's suddenly 15 kms and you don't show even a single calculation although I already provided all the raw numbers you keep crying for? Man, do you think everyone is as unattentive as you?

First of all aiming a beam down an elevator shaft should be piss easy given what we know of the Enterprises sensors, and while they may be able to beam through a window on the ISD - we really don't know much about the thickness nor composition of an ISD's windows so that isn't a given. That means little to them being able to bypass blast doors and beam people out of the ship's interior and ignores any other sources of interference that the SD may generate.

As Batman has already pointed out I said that the ISD's hull is equal to about 15km of sea level density air, not that it is equal to anymore than roughly 90m of rock and wet earth mixed with gravel.

Hell when Metahive hijacks a thread

Hijack? Doesn't the very thread title say Borg vs ISD, how's it hijacking when I concoct scenarios involving just that? Add thread hijacking to the myriad things to big for your atrophied brain to understand.

Dumbass.

It's clear you have no interest whatsoever to actually discuss this and just wish to spam this thread with half-cocked posturing.

You hijacked it when you took a simple question and turned it into fire ants versus the flayed and paralyzed.

[Metahive]

...says the person who can't tell Norade is talking about 15.5 km of air, not rock, when he explicitly says so.

I was being kind, because that would mean I would have to draw attention to the fact that he thinks transporter beams can bend around corners once again. Something I might add, is not shown to be the case in canon.

Norade, fuck off. Giving the Federation the power of Time Lords and Darkseid just shows you don't know shit. Spare your spam for someone else.

I'd like to point out that the over-abundance of ions or sufficiently strong electromagnetic fields (such as those found in the atmosphere) can cause transporters to malfunction and become unreliable, so if the scenario starts with the ISD being damaged, it is quite possible that radiation leaking from the ISD will prevent transporter locks in large swaths of the ship.

Sure, that might stop the Borg from transporting, it might however, depending on the seriousness of the leak, especially if it has to saturate large swaths of the ship to achieve this effect, also just kill off the rest of the crew. In that case you've just handed the Borg the prize without a challenge.
Let's therefore assume for this scenario that the reactors aren't leaking, or not leaking in such a serious manner.

We're talking about Borg transporters, which IIRc have been shown to be substantially better than Feddie transporters and haven't demonstrated vulnerability to radiation and similar problems that fucks up the Enterprise's day

QWho and BOBW have the Borg beaming only after the shields are down. What they can do however is locking on with their holding beams while the shields are intact in the latter. They lose this ability in all subsequent episodes.

[Norade]

...says the person who can't tell Norade is talking about 15.5 km of air, not rock, when he explicitly says so.

I was being kind, because that would mean I would have to draw attention to the fact that he thinks transporter beams can bend around corners once again. Something I might add, is not shown to be the case in canon.

Norade, fuck off. Giving the Federation the power of Time Lords and Darkseid just shows you don't know shit. Spare your spam for someone else.

So going down a straight shaft = bend around corners now? Care to explain how that works?

Also what powers have I given anybody now that they never had before? We know that transports don't work through too much material, we now have an elevator shaft they could have been beamed now. Think about it this way, would you get better phone reception from an entirely enclosed cave, or one with a large metal lined shaft leading to it?