The Federation and the Empire:a possible relationship?

[Typo]

First of all i would like to say hello to everyone.

I found this forum by pure chance and, in general, i found it quite good.

My knowledge of the science fantasy universes of Star Trek and Star Wars is limited to the films and tv series, but, i love them both.

One thing i found quite interesting is the possibility of a peaceful relationship between the Federation and the Galactic Empire, if some kind of space highway (a wormhole maybe) connects the Milky Way to the Star Wars Galaxy.

And to me, this possibility of peaceful relationship is quite strong. Why?

Well, the Empire isn`t ruled by stupid people, and they will realize that strecht their resources over 2 galaxies would put them in dificulties to control and efectively manage all the millions of planets.
At the same time, though the raw power of the Galactic Empire is gargantuesque, the Federation have some nice tricks that could - like a "deus ex-machina" - grant the victory to the Federation.
The truth is that a war between the 2 powers would be a hapy notice to the Borgs or another agressive species bent on total domination.

So: despite the horrendous crimes of the Empire (the destruction of Alderaan is to me the most apaling), and to be a absolute monarchy "de facto" the cultural and trade relations between the Federation and the Empire could be great, produce a relationship, and build some trust between the 2 powers.

I think that exchange some hyperdrives for some bottles of Porto Wine its a good start.

I really would like to ear your opinions about this idea: peaceful relations between the Federation and the Empire.

[The Romulan Republic]

First of all i would like to say hello to everyone.

I found this forum by pure chance and, in general, i found it quite good.

My knowledge of the science fantasy universes of Star Trek and Star Wars is limited to the films and tv series, but, i love them both.

One thing i found quite interesting is the possibility of a peaceful relationship between the Federation and the Galactic Empire, if some kind of space highway (a wormhole maybe) connects the Milky Way to the Star Wars Galaxy.

Yes, this has been discussed before. Its quite possible, but at the same time, I think its not particularly likely. I'll explain why later.

And to me, this possibility of peaceful relationship is quite strong. Why?

Well, the Empire isn`t ruled by stupid people, and they will realize that strecht their resources over 2 galaxies would put them in dificulties to control and efectively manage all the millions of planets.

This is a good point. The Empire is actually quite limited in the number of ships they have to spare. 25,000 Star Destroyers spread over a galaxy, after all.

They might be able to wipe out the Federation with a single frigate, but they would then have to patrol and garrison that territory, by far the bigger job.

At the same time, though the raw power of the Galactic Empire is gargantuesque, the Federation have some nice tricks that could - like a "deus ex-machina" - grant the victory to the Federation.

If you've read the main site, you'll know that there's probably not a lot they can do on their own. Their best chance is for someone else to save them, ie Q or the Rebels. How likely that is I won't speculate upon at this time.

The truth is that a war between the 2 powers would be a hapy notice to the Borgs or another agressive species bent on total domination.

Not really. Even the Borg would be absurdly outclassed by the Empire. If the Borg tried to swoop in while the others were fighting, they'd probably get a visit from the Death Star or Vader's Death Squadron.

So: despite the horrendous crimes of the Empire (the destruction of Alderaan is to me the most apaling), and to be a absolute monarchy "de facto" the cultural and trade relations between the Federation and the Empire could be great, produce a relationship, and build some trust between the 2 powers.

No doubt, but here's the catch:

Starfleet captains have a history of being both stubborn and idealistic. Kirk, Picard, Sisko, and Janeway have all defied nearly omnipotent beings. Eventually the Empire would commit too many atrocities in the Trek Galaxy, or dictate one term too many to the Feds, and Starfleet captains would complain. There you have the potential for conflict.

And don't tell me they wouldn't risk it. I recall that both Janeway and Picard were willing to have their ship destroyed as opposed to allowing an alien to experiment on the crew. Deep Space 9 projected 900 Billion Federation casualties in the Dominion War before the Federation surrendered.

You've got to hand it to the Feds. They have giant balls.

[Temujin]

I honestly can't see much in the way of peaceful relations. The Federation and most of the other 'major' powers are just too technologically inferior to be of much notice and are of even less concern. Unless the Empire takes an active interest (for whatever reason) and either controls wormhole access or sends in some forces to help keep order, the ST galaxy is likely to become like the Outer Rim Territories, full of crime lords, unscrupulous corporations, etc. all setting up shop and taking advantage of the relatively primitive natives.

It is possible that the Rebels might step in and help, but that might possibly be counter productive as it could get the attention of the Empire.

[Night_stalker]

Yeah, the Feddies naturally will try diplomacy with the Empire, only to be told how exactly the Empire "negotiates". Namely, they use SD diplomacy.

[Serafina]

Okay, several possible actions that the Empire could take upon such a discovery:

-Conquest: They win, plain and simple. They might not do it, but only because they would only gain territory and resources - but absolutely no tech base (federation factories would be useless to them).
-Trade: Why conquer if you can trade for stuff you want? A single outdated SW-ship would be worth entire planetary ST-economies. If needed, you can coerce it out of them with force.
-Ignore it. The AQ simply holds nothing for them justifiyng such endeavours. The most likely result is that crime lords and/or the rebellion would use the AQ for their purposes (hideouts and black markets). That might be prevented by the Empire by blocking the wormhole, if they choose to do so.

[Typo]

I think that the Empire isn`t stupid, and a military course of action in another galaxy would be the last thing they do.

Despite of the aparent power of the Empire, could make the conquest of the Federation (plus Klingons, Romulans, etc.) piece of cake, that isn`t absolutely sure.

Just remember: in the Star Trek films and tv episodes always apears some "scientific" or "technical" trick that would make a single ST ship capable of blow the entire Imperial Navy...

And its always an error to despise the Federation because of the less rich economy ( comparatively to the economy of the Empire) or some technological inferiority in some areas.

So: if the Empire and the Federation, started some peaceful relationship (based in diplomatic missions, trade exchanges and cultural - scientific, technical, art, etc. - exchanges) what possibilities will be opened to the people of both galaxies?

I think that a great development of a myriad of artistic and literary exchanges, plus some philosophical and scientific ideasideas that could work to both sides (improving their knoweledge in some areas), trade of technology. I think the Federation have some things that can be quite interesting: replicators, holo-doctors, tricorders; and i dont see nothing in the SW films (the IV, V and VI episodes, and the awful "prequel") similar to that technology.

And, of course, tourism.
I know a some places - in Earth, of course - that even Darth Vader would loved to pass some days, resting of all the responsability of be the second in comand in the Empire.

[Ghost Rider]

I think that the Empire isn`t stupid, and a military course of action in another galaxy would be the last thing they do.

Why not?

It would be even easier to rile a populace up of invaders from another galaxy for a build up of even more military armament.

Despite of the aparent power of the Empire, could make the conquest of the Federation (plus Klingons, Romulans, etc.) piece of cake, that isn`t absolutely sure.

Just remember: in the Star Trek films and tv episodes always apears some "scientific" or "technical" trick that would make a single ST ship capable of blow the entire Imperial Navy...

Yep, just like they pulled out these one shot wonders to handle the Borg all those times. Or the Dominion from scorching massive parts of the Federation and their fleet.

And its always an error to despise the Federation because of the less rich economy ( comparatively to the economy of the Empire) or some technological inferiority in some areas.

The disparity would be immense. In fact, there is no derision as much as the Federation is an non entity in terms of material or economical power.

So: if the Empire and the Federation, started some peaceful relationship (based in diplomatic missions, trade exchanges and cultural - scientific, technical, art, etc. - exchanges) what possibilities will be opened to the people of both galaxies?

You trade when you have something offer beyond knick knacks. The Empire would ignore unless military action was taken and the business conglomerates would race into the new territory with the thoughts of literally virgin territory.

I think that a great development of a myriad of artistic and literary exchanges, plus some philosophical and scientific ideasideas that could work to both sides (improving their knoweledge in some areas), trade of technology. I think the Federation have some things that can be quite interesting: replicators, holo-doctors, tricorders; and i dont see nothing in the SW films (the IV, V and VI episodes, and the awful "prequel") similar to that technology.

These things are usually covered within the EU, and much of the others are just extraneous technology that doesn't make the SW tech any better, just a possible gloss.

And, of course, tourism.
I know a some places - in Earth, of course - that even Darth Vader would loved to pass some days, resting of all the responsability of be the second in comand in the Empire.

Which would get taken over by whatever favorite corporation that would love how fucking easy it is to take over and exploit.

[Serafina]

Look, Typo, it's really quite simple:

There is absolutely nothing the Alpha Quadrant (or rather, the whole ST-galaxy) can do to hold off anyone from the SW-galaxy.
Private businessmen would have enough ships to conquer the whole AQ - they don't need many, since their ships are millions of times faster and have millions of times the firepower and shielding of ST-ships. A bountyhunters ship would have enough firepower to take out the entire Federation-fleet - at once.
Conquest would literary be a joke - it's like a confrontation between all of modern earth and ancient egypt.

As far as technobabble goes:
The Federation has never shown that their technobabble-trickery can enhance their ships so much that they are millions of times better. Otherwise, the Dominion, Borg, Klingons etc. would be a non-threat. Even if every side could do it, we would see a gigantic arms race - yet, technology is more or less stagnant (a TNG-era ship is not that much more powerfull than a TOS-era ship - not by orders of magnitude).

I listed the possible reactions by the Empire if they would discover such a crossover-wormhole. The AQ is either ignored, conquered or used as a source for cheap materials and/or labor.
If they get ignored and do not fortificate the wormhole, other people will move into the AQ - to steal resources and slaves, to use it as a hideout or even just to have fun blowing up a bunch of primitives.

[Typo]

I had in mind that the diferences in therms of power between the Federation and the Empire is the same diference between amerindians in the XVI with their stone and wood weapons and the portuguese and spanish with steel and powder.

But, at the same time, i don`t belive that the Empire simply decide to conquer the Milky Way (even in their own Galaxy the Rebels can always be a pain in the ass, hit and runing continuously) using resources better invested in destroying the Rebels, or say "too much primitive (Federation): no need to bother with them".

I, simply, dont want to measure the military power of the Empire (an Imperial Star Destroyer can wipe out the Starfleet) or the power of the Federation ( they use some "meta-technological-supreme-once-in-a-time-gizmo" and blow the entire Imperial Navy with a torpedo...).
Lets try to think that the Empire and the Federation start they relation, with good diplomatic relations, and people of both galaxies try to trade and share what the have.

And the interactions between the two powers don`t need to be strictly about technology our products.
Cultural goods and ideas, even philosophical ideas from both galaxies that can be used by the diferent species.

I saw, some weeks ago, an image of Thrawn talking with Pellaon about some sculpture in front of them; so, if some suposedly "evil" imperial officers can enjoy art, and discuss about work of arts, i think this is a field that can be explored in a possible peaceful relationship between the two powers.

It seems to me that can exist more than a simple "conquistadores" or cowboy policy by the part of the Empire.

[Ghost Rider]

The reason for conquest is that if the Empire doesn't...they are going to buy from the yokel hick crimelord that does. The Federation has little to nothing to offer as negotiations because there is nothing stopping the Empire in sending some random captain and his small squadron to hover over Earth and go "You are now citizens of the New Order, here's the changes.".

This scenario is as if Greeks of the Roman era approached the Soviet Union of the 80s with no messy politics or real world in the way. It either gets ignored or taken.

[PREDATOR490]

The rebels are a pain in the ass for the Empire because they exist in a galaxy with comparable technology. The Federation does not.

The Empire dosent have to worry about destroying it's own facilities, angering it's own population or defending their own galaxy against invasion. If the Federation or anyone else in the ST Galaxy resist they die, its that simple.

The Federation does not have anything to trade beyond minor trinkets. If the Empire wants technology from the ST they might as well go after the Borg and plunder their databanks since they are one of the most tech savy races in the ST universe AND wiping them out works as a testomony to the Empire's technological supremacy.

A: The Federation gets wiped out
B: The Federation surrenders and the Empire TAKES what it wants
C: The Federation gets left alone and ignored while the Empire plunders the rest of the galaxy

There is no need for trade or diplomacy when the Empire can take things at will with no issue what-so-ever.

[lord Martiya]

If the Federation or anyone else in the ST Galaxy resist they die, its that simple.

Let me nitpick that the Voth and the Organians seems advanced enough to contend with the Empire, if they ever cared enough. At least until the Empire get serious: the Voth have only one cityship, after all, and the Organians seems to hold only their neutral zone. Anyone more powerful? Apart Q and his pop corns, obviously.

[Gramzamber]

The Voth and the Borg for that matter might be able to resist the incursion of Wars crime lords and the like due to their scale, but they're toast if the Empire glances at them.
The Organians are all talk. When push came to shove the Klingons and Federation attacked each other all they liked and the Organians did nothing and, like all TOS superbeings, are pretty much one shot wonders never to be seen again.

The Q would probably look down upon the proceedings and go "heh".

[PhilosopherOfSorts]

I think the Alpha Quadrant, at least, would probably become "The Corporate Sector, Mk II." There's nobody there worth sending the millitary after, so let the corporations have it.

Though there is one thing the Federation has that the Empire might be interested in, that would be Earth, the human homeworld, complete with the fossil record to prove it. As far as I know, nothing like that has been found in the Star Wars galaxy.

[Typo]

I was reading the posts of everybody in this thread, and they seem very oriented to the idea that the people in the Milky Way (namely the Federation) don´t have nothing that can interest to the Empire (or the the peoples that inhabite the Galaxy).

But, i (and excuse me if im being stuborn) this idea isn`t too simplistic?
I ask that because the technology (im not talking about the raw military power or about the industrial output of the empire) in the Star Wars Galaxy doesn`t seem to me (again, i only know the films - never read any comic or book of the SW) so much advanced than the technology in the Federation.

There isn`t any field that - possibly - can be fruitful in a exchange of diferent experiences between the Empire and the Federation?

How about droids techology of the Empire with technology similar to that used with Data?
How about teleporters technology exchanged by hyperdrive technology?
How about earth music and several musics of the Galaxy: imagine the enrichment of this art.
How about architectonic styles: for example, the Empire could find quite beautiful the corinthian, and adapt this style in some imperial buildings.

My friends, lets try to not limit the Empire to a great bully that can only inflict fear and destruction, certainly they are much more than that.

[Ghost Rider]

I was reading the posts of everybody in this thread, and they seem very oriented to the idea that the people in the Milky Way (namely the Federation) don´t have nothing that can interest to the Empire (or the the peoples that inhabite the Galaxy).

But, i (and excuse me if im being stuborn) this idea isn`t too simplistic?
I ask that because the technology (im not talking about the raw military power or about the industrial output of the empire) in the Star Wars Galaxy doesn`t seem to me (again, i only know the films - never read any comic or book of the SW) so much advanced than the technology in the Federation.

Flash is not being more advanced.

Nothing, and I mean NOTHING in the Federation can equal the engineering feat that is the Death Star.

There isn`t any field that - possibly - can be fruitful in a exchange of diferent experiences between the Empire and the Federation?

Sure, after they are a vassal state of the Empire, Hutts, CSA, or any number of organizations that would have easy access to tech to go "Obey us or (insert planet) bites it.".

How about droids techology of the Empire with technology similar to that used with Data?

SW droids in the fucking film outdo Data on mutiple levels.

How about teleporters technology exchanged by hyperdrive technology?

One allows usage to move stuff with rather large variables of what will and will not go through versus an item that allows galatic travel in mere weeks?

This would be trading a lone printer for a plane.

How about earth music and several musics of the Galaxy: imagine the enrichment of this art.

A completely subjective taste idea. And something the variety of corporations can see, explore and use with no need to care what the Federation will do.

How about architectonic styles: for example, the Empire could find quite beautiful the corinthian, and adapt this style in some imperial buildings.

Again take. Where is there any reason to sit and talk?

My friends, lets try to not limit the Empire to a great bully that can only inflict fear and destruction, certainly they are much more than that.

Why be friends with a civilization that you can send some random captian, his small fleet and tell the Federation these are the new terms of their existence? Some thought of they will fight back? Some idea that they erase their technology? This is like comparing the a conglomerate of the greatest powers of the modern world and seeing if they will open trade with Easter Island.

[lord Martiya]

The Voth and the Borg for that matter might be able to resist the incursion of Wars crime lords and the like due to their scale, but they're toast if the Empire glances at them.
The Organians are all talk. When push came to shove the Klingons and Federation attacked each other all they liked and the Organians did nothing and, like all TOS superbeings, are pretty much one shot wonders never to be seen again.

The Q would probably look down upon the proceedings and go "heh".

I don't know about the Organians, but I wouldn't give the Borg so much credit (they're just too stupid). On the other hand, I think the Voth could resist a small Imperial task force or even a small group of ISD. That said, they just haven't the numbers to fight the Empire if they ever get half-serious: a sector fleet would be more than enough to deal with their single cityship, even without involving something bigger than a ISD.
For the Q... I'm not sure they'll care. Apart that one who loves tormenting Picard and will materialize some pop corns to better enjoy the show...

There isn`t any field that - possibly - can be fruitful in a exchange of diferent experiences between the Empire and the Federation?

No. But the Romulans HAVE something the Empire may be interested into: their infamous ale. And if THAT is the only thing our galaxy has to offer to the Empire, I'd start learning Romulan AND Basics: the Romulans may try and get the Empire wipe out the Federation and the Klingon asserting they limit Romulan ale production with their embargo, and whatever they succeed or not it will be better go on Corulag or a Romulan planet.

[Simon_Jester]

I had in mind that the diferences in therms of power between the Federation and the Empire is the same diference between amerindians in the XVI with their stone and wood weapons and the portuguese and spanish with steel and powder.

It's worse than that. A guy with stone or wood weapons can still sneak up on a sixteenth century conquistador and bash his brains in with a rock. A Star Trek ship can't seriously harm a Star Wars ship, even with the shields down and the engines turned off. Also, the Native Americans didn't have a massive mobility disadvantage compared to conquistadors, or a massive disadvantage of numbers (quite the opposite).

No. But the Romulans HAVE something the Empire may be interested into: their infamous ale. And if THAT is the only thing our galaxy has to offer to the Empire, I'd start learning Romulan AND Basics: the Romulans may try and get the Empire wipe out the Federation and the Klingon asserting they limit Romulan ale production with their embargo, and whatever they succeed or not it will be better go on Corulag or a Romulan planet.

Yeah. That illustrates the difference in scale rather well.

[lord Martiya]

I had in mind that the diferences in therms of power between the Federation and the Empire is the same diference between amerindians in the XVI with their stone and wood weapons and the portuguese and spanish with steel and powder.

Not exactly: the Empire has far superior numbers, firepower, combat ranges, accuracy defences, strategical and tactical speed and combat experience, the Amerindians actually outnumbered the Europeans in almost every engagement, were not outmanouvered, and could still smash a Spaniard's head with their maces.
That's why Incans actually won some battles: the technology difference wasn't so high to prevent brains from victory, like at Ollantaytambo (long story short of the battle: the Spaniards arrived with local allies ready for an easy victory thanks to guns and cavalry. The Incans had high ground, fortifications to stop gunfire and flooded the battlefield to hinder cavalry, and then proceeded to use their numbers to kick the Spaniards all the way to Cuzco) or Mount Chimborazo (where Incan general Rumiñahui WAS defeating the Spaniards badly until a volcanic eruption provided bad omen and scared his troops).
The Aztecs were faring even better, and, in spite of the war starting with Spaniards massacring many of their best warriors and generals while they were unarmed, were actually defeating the invaders until smallpox decimated their warriors and leadership (smallpox decimated also Spanish allies, but not the Spaniards).
But a battle between Federation and Empire wouldn't be like that, it would be more like two dozens galleys fighting the entire force of present-day US Navy plus the Iowa reactivated for the occasions. And as US Navy could just win with the Iowa ramming the galleys, the Empire could win by just having an ISD ramming Starfleet until there's nothing left.

[Typo]

I always thinked the only way to the Starfleet wins an engagement against the Imperial Navy, is by the means of some "deus ex-machina" (for example all star destroyers caught in some kind of black hole or Q decided to teleport them to another galaxy in the far corner of Universe... ).

But - i ask you all - isn`t anything than can help to develop some kind of peaceful relationship between the Empire and the Federation?

You all think the Empire (for boredom, pure malice or whatsoever) only wipe out the Federation and doesnt give a any atention to what the Federation can offer in a fair trade?

Hmmm... Im pretty sure that wine, cheese and escargots would be quite welcomed by the gourmets in the Star Wars Galaxy!

Maybe there are a chance - after the Emperor eats a slice of camembert - to say: "they (Federation) aren´t completly useless; maybe we can trade this for something else...".

[Serafina]

I always thinked the only way to the Starfleet wins an engagement against the Imperial Navy, is by the means of some "deus ex-machina" (for example all star destroyers caught in some kind of black hole or Q decided to teleport them to another galaxy in the far corner of Universe... ).

Yes, that's about the only possiblity.
However, if that merely takes out a hundred or so ships - the Empire has millions more.

But - i ask you all - isn`t anything than can help to develop some kind of peaceful relationship between the Empire and the Federation?

The Federation has nothing to offer to the Empire. They can simply take what they want by force for FAR less effort than if they would have to trade for it.
If you were talking about the Republic - maybe, yes, they would propably not conquer them outright.
Problem is, that doesn't stop some criminal from conquering his own galaxy (or at leat parts of it) - a few pirates could sujugate the Federation with ease.

Really, it's like asking "is there no way for peacefull coexistance between the natives and the europeans"?
Except, you know, worse - because you have an entire galaxy of people, an enormous disparity in technology and either an uncaring or an malevolent goverment.

You all think the Empire (for boredom, pure malice or whatsoever) only wipe out the Federation and doesnt give a any atention to what the Federation can offer in a fair trade?

"Fair trade" - that's the problem.
The only things they could offer are minerals, food, untrained workers and land.
None of these are that valuable to the Empire - surely not enough to establish any trade treaties and justify giving them advanced technology.
Even if such a trade happens, it would be pretty exploitative - you know, like the historical examples we have for such things.

Hmmm... Im pretty sure that wine, cheese and escargots would be quite welcomed by the gourmets in the Star Wars Galaxy!

Maybe, yes - but what's stopping a single bussinessman from getting these for next to nothing: "give me cheese and whine. I will give you some outdated droids in exchange. If you don't accept, i will just take them by force and blow up a city or two".
Nothing stops him, it's as simple as that.

Maybe there are a chance - after the Emperor eats a slice of camembert - to say: "they (Federation) aren´t completly useless; maybe we can trade this for something else...".

Or "we must secure this valuabe resource. Send a fleet of 100 star destroyers and subjugate the whole Alpha Quadrant."O
Or better yet, get the necessary supplies to make it on your own - or tow the planets into the SW-galaxy.

[Ritterin Sophia]

I always thinked the only way to the Starfleet wins an engagement against the Imperial Navy, is by the means of some "deus ex-machina" (for example all star destroyers caught in some kind of black hole or Q decided to teleport them to another galaxy in the far corner of Universe... ).

Given Q's desire to see the Federation get a kick in the pants, Q is the most probable answer for the Empire to be able to access the Milky Way in the first place

But - i ask you all - isn`t anything than can help to develop some kind of peaceful relationship between the Empire and the Federation?

Have you been listening? It's not the Empire they have to worry about, it's Imperial vassals they need to fear, like the Corporate Sector.

You all think the Empire (for boredom, pure malice or whatsoever) only wipe out the Federation and doesnt give a any atention to what the Federation can offer in a fair trade?

No one said wipe out, the term for what has been described is 'subjugate'. The Federation has nothing to leverage for: their technology is so far behind it's not worth trading anything substantial for and they can't trade resources since even planets like Naboo controlled more territory than the UFP does, whilst large parts of the Empire remain untouched.

Hmmm... Im pretty sure that wine, cheese and escargots would be quite welcomed by the gourmets in the Star Wars Galaxy!

There isn't enough resources available to the UFP to make enough of those to justify heavy technologies.

Maybe there are a chance - after the Emperor eats a slice of camembert - to say: "they (Federation) aren´t completly useless; maybe we can trade this for something else...".

This has to be one of the most idiotic propositions I've ever heard. "Oh they'll taste our awesome food and trade technology thousands of years in advance of our own for the secrets to it".

[Serafina]

Hey, some peope from the SW-galaxy may actually be willing to trade.
Of course, at horrifying rates - and just having a couple of outdated hyperdrives won't give them the ability to build them.
They are still tryting to build transwarp and slipstream drives after all, they won't figute out technology that is millenia more advanced than that.

[lord Martiya]

But - i ask you all - isn`t anything than can help to develop some kind of peaceful relationship between the Empire and the Federation?

No: the only guys who have something are the Romulans with their ale, and given that they usually come out as the smartest (or less stupid) I'd expect them to JOIN the Empire (they get a new market and the Empire less problems into administering their territory), either by petition or by having a useful fool provoke a war and surrendering after shooting a couple times to honor the service, and then find a way to have the Empire and Federation at war. That if they can shoot their pride before the Empire conquers them on its own.

[Night_stalker]

Yeah, like the Romulans would ever show weakness. Knowing them, they'd fake their surrender then try a range of stealth attacks. The Empire promptly uses Romulus and Remus for Death Star target practice.