What universe would you rather live in??

[Justloginin]

Both have merits.

Star trek: Replicators
Transporters
No Poverty (on earth)
Inept Security forces


Star Wars: Droids for slaves
Slaves
Inept security forces

[Moff Radec]

What the fuck... That is the most one-sided thing I have seen today.

Transporters are death machines. One small screw-up with those and you're a dead man.

Star Wars is not full of slaves. The Empire used slaves for labor but they were either petty criminals or rebels trying to oppose them.

Droids for slaves? What the hell do you think C-3PO was made for? He's a Protocol Droid which are programmed to do work for their masters. It's not droid rights are anything like that.

Inept Security? Give me some evidence on what you mean by "inept" security.

This post is too one-sided. Read the facts before you say "Star Wars universe is only run by slaves." The Star Wars universe is a vacation compared to all the shit that happens in Star Trek.

Expect a beating from the others here because they will most certainly like this one-sided claim as much as I did.

[Jake]

Its not a vacation when:
Your Planet gets BDZd
Your Planet gets outright blown up
You can't form a peaceful protest without worrying about a moff landing on you
The two largest powers in the outer rim are a despotic Empire and slavers/gangsters
You get gruesomely killed because you happen to purchase random droids
The last major galactic war (not to mention the fact that there's one like every five years) most likely had more casualties than every war in the history of the federation
You destiny is pretty much determined by a fucking energy field

Yeah, real vacation

[Moff Radec]

All but number 4 and number 7 are because the Empire doesn't like protests and uprisings. And the Empire is run by one of the best Sith Lords. But I would rather live in the hands of the Empire than be assimilated by the Borg.

[SapphireFox]

If I recall correctly Mike had essentially the same thing as a poll in the main Empire site. Except that he included more places in the poll.

As for your statements lets see...

Both have merits.

Star trek: Replicators

Cheap crap rearranged into other crap. Arguably useful, however a smart mind can do some pretty wanky like things with it. Consider it a decent plus.

Transporters

I don't know about you but being disintegrated just for the sake of expedient travel doesn't sit right with me. In fact I find it quite disturbing no other machine in history has raised the question of am I dead and who am I so much. This contraption screws over the perception and understanding of death so much that I can't EVER call it a good thing. Definite minus.
No Poverty (on earth)
Every nation has its rich affluent areas. You just see a one dimensional view of a society. Good for propaganda bombardment, but the economics behind it make ones head explode with the shear insanity of it.

Inept Security forces

You give this to both groups so it cancels out. However it is up to you to prove this to be true for both universes. You can't just say shit here without providing evidence of it.

Star Wars: Droids for slaves

Not quite true as there are quite a number of independent droids out there. Besides the tasks that they are given are what they were designed and built for. So the slavery angle doesn't quite wash. Is your computer a slave for enabling you to use the internet?

Slaves

They are illegal to keep in most civilized areas. The only places you would find them are in hutt space and in distant parts of the outer rim.

Inept security forces

See previous feddie section.

Where are your positives for star wars? I mean seriously this is so biased like this it is not funny. Where is possibility of living on a city planet, privately owned spacecraft for commuting between worlds, possibly accessing the force and many other things.

[SapphireFox]

Its not a vacation when:
Your Planet gets BDZd
Your Planet gets outright blown up
You can't form a peaceful protest without worrying about a moff landing on you
The two largest powers in the outer rim are a despotic Empire and slavers/gangsters
You get gruesomely killed because you happen to purchase random droids
The last major galactic war (not to mention the fact that there's one like every five years) most likely had more casualties than every war in the history of the federation
You destiny is pretty much determined by a fucking energy field

Yeah, real vacation

It's not a vacation when:
You get assimilated by the borg.
Have a transporter accident/malfunction.
Get sold out by your own government and mercilessly killed for defending your home.
Your planet gets depopulated and becomes lifeless because a space snowflake gets hungry.
You can't wear a red shirt without taking your life into your own hands.
You can get horribly killed from the monster of the week.
You can have your life, planet and/or civilization screwed over by Q just for HIS amusement.

Not much better of a vacation is it?

[Jake]

All but number 4 and number 7 are because the Empire doesn't like protests and uprisings.

Alderan wasn't blown up because of protests and uprisings. It was blown up because one person out of its population of billions supported the rebel alliance. Camaas was BDZd because they were pacifist. The problem with totalitarian dictatorships is that the nutjob dictator gets to do whatever the fuck he wants. Give said nutjob a planet destroying space station and 25,000 warships with multi teraton levels of firepower and you make fucking Hitler look like a school bully.

And the Empire is run by one of the best Sith Lords.

A lunatic who has taken more innocent lives than every evil dictator on the earth combined.

But I would rather live in the hands of the Empire than be assimilated by the Borg.

Tell that to the death star engineer who was tortured to death only to be repeatedly cloned so he could be tortured to death again and again (look it up on wookieepedia, some of it is pretty gruesome). At least the borg collective is painless once you're assimilated. Hell, many borg can't stand being cut off from the collective. Also, how many federation citizens have been assimilated by the borg? I'll put money on less than 1%.

[Jake]

It's not a vacation when:
You get assimilated by the borg.

Yeah, only how many federation citizens have been assimilated? I'll bet you its less than the population of Alderaan....

Have a transporter accident/malfunction.

I feel bad for all five of the people who had to go through that. One in four Americans will get into a car accident. Do you think we should get rid of cars?

Get sold out by your own government and mercilessly killed for defending your home.

At least the feds would have let the maqui live anywhere else. The empire would have simply said fuck negotiations and sent a fleet of star destroyers to take care of the rebel problem.

Your planet gets depopulated and becomes lifeless because a space snowflake gets hungry.

Another 1 in a billion anomoly. I'd rather take my chances than live in a galaxy in constant civil war (and this applies to after the empire falls as well)

You can't wear a red shirt without taking your life into your own hands.

Well you are a soldier...

You can get horribly killed from the monster of the week.

Another one in a billion chance

You can have your life, planet and/or civilization screwed over by Q just for HIS amusement.

From what I remember, Q saved all civilization as well...

Not much better of a vacation is it?

Actually it is.....

Here's my challange to you: Sum up all of the deaths from the clone wars untill the first fall of palpatine. Then sum up all of the deaths from the first TNG episode to the end of the dominion war. If the wars deaths don't outnumber the trek deaths at least 100 to one I will automatically concede this debate.

[Moff Radec]

Alderan wasn't blown up because of protests and uprisings. It was blown up because one person out of its population of billions supported the rebel alliance. Camaas was BDZd because they were pacifist. The problem with totalitarian dictatorships is that the nutjob dictator gets to do whatever the fuck he wants. Give said nutjob a planet destroying space station and 25,000 warships with multi teraton levels of firepower and you make fucking Hitler look like a school bully.

The Empire didn't neccessarily care about the loss of life. Palpatine only faked his sorrow for the loss of life. Though it was meant to bring fear to the Galaxy but it backfired.

A lunatic who has taken more innocent lives than every evil dictator on the earth combined.

Sith Lord.

Tell that to the death star engineer who was tortured to death only to be repeatedly cloned so he could be tortured to death again and again (look it up on wookieepedia, some of it is pretty gruesome). At least the borg collective is painless once you're assimilated. Hell, many borg can't stand being cut off from the collective. Also, how many federation citizens have been assimilated by the borg? I'll put money on less than 1%.

Well, yeah, the Sith Lord of a dictator got pissed off because his ultimate weapon had a simple design flaw. I would want to kill my designer too if I spent 20 years building a space station capable of killing planets by spending billions and maybe trillions of funds and resources just to build it right only to find out one design flaw ruined it completely.

[Jake]

The Empire didn't neccessarily care about the loss of life. Palpatine only faked his sorrow for the loss of life. Though it was meant to bring fear to the Galaxy but it backfired.

Exactly. Would you want to live under Adolf Hitler, who was responsible for the massacre of 1/3 of european jews? Take that and multiply it by 100000000000000000000000..... that's palpatine.

Sith Lord.

So you agree with me?

Well, yeah, the Sith Lord of a dictator got pissed off because his ultimate weapon had a simple design flaw. I would want to kill my designer too if I spent 20 years building a space station capable of killing planets by spending billions and maybe trillions of funds and resources just to build it right only to find out one design flaw ruined it completely.

You would so casually kill another human being? Read here, starting at "Flight and Death" :http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bevel_Lemelisk. If you would honestly do this then you're one sick, perverted excuse for a human and I truly feel sorry for you,

[Moff Radec]

Exactly. Would you want to live under Adolf Hitler, who was responsible for the massacre of 1/3 of european jews? Take that and multiply it by 100000000000000000000000..... that's palpatine.

Exactly.

So you agree with me?

Yes. It's the Sith way. They've done that for thousands of years.

You would so casually kill another human being? Read here, starting at "Flight and Death" :http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bevel_Lemelisk. If you would honestly do this then you're one sick, perverted excuse for a human and I truly feel sorry for you,

Wait, wait, wait, I didn't say I would. I would want to but in reality I would never really be able to come to it. But I mean, when you think about it, it's a merciless Sith Lord for an Emperor.

[Jake]

So you're agreeing with me that the federation would be a better place to live than the empire...

[Gandalf]

I'd live in the Federation.

It seems pleasant enough, provided I don't live near anything that might make a good target.

[Moff Radec]

So you're agreeing with me that the federation would be a better place to live than the empire...

Hmm, you actually do have a point. I'm too much of an Empire fanatic to really look in depth to it so I'll take this is a learning experience.

[Jake]

Hmm, you actually do have a point. I'm too much of an Empire fanatic to really look in depth to it so I'll take this is a learning experience.

The technology of the Star Wars galaxy is incredibly impressive. I would just think that after at least 25000 as a Galactic civilization, they would have learned not to blindly allow a single man, no matter how powerful his oratory, to get away with atrocities of a magnitude almost unimaginable to us. And after that you would definitely expect them to never allow something like that to happen again.... For all the hate that trek gets on this board, I see a civilization that manages to hold on to the ideals of peace and respect for all forms of intelligent life even as a relatively insignificant power when compared to the galaxy at large. I believe that the galaxy controlling empire, for all their technology and power, could learn something from the federation that they could not find out for themselves in 25000 years of existence.

[Jake]

And I am most certainly not a trekkie. The Jedi are my favorite characters in Sci Fi.

[Moff Radec]

Yes, I like the Empire for it's military and how advanced it is. It's main "Rule Through Fear" got taken care of by Pellaeon which actually managed to help it expand again in due time by the Fel dynasty. But then Krayt (who I personally find to be a poor excuse for a Sith) took over.

Yes the Jedi were interesting figures.

[Jake]

Yeah, the republic isn't perfect either. When you have a senate of 10,000+ members, who all have conflicting self interests, nothing will be getting done anytime soon. Frankly I would like to see a republic with a Jedi run supreme court to make sure none of the corruption bullshit passes, and maybe a Jedi Chancellor like before the Ruusan reformation. There would obviously be a constitution somewhat like that of the US to start off from. In essence, a popularly elected senate still creates the laws, but the largely incorruptible Jedi make sure nothing shady goes on and no one is denied their rights. If this were to occur, I think we could have a Star Wars that would approach the Federation in terms of an acceptable society.

[Soontir C'boath]

Assuming I am still human, I would live in the Star Wars universe anytime before and after the Yuzzy Invasion mainly for technological and travel reasons. I don't fancy having the only options of either having to be a colonist going one way or joining Starfleet to travel to other worlds and even then being in barely two quadrants of the galaxy and traveling appallingly slow speeds compared to the Star Wars universe. Another reason is, living in Federation society seems utterly boring and clean although it looks like the alternate Star Trek universe the latest movie showcased may be more interesting.

[Temujin]

Either would be better for me than the current world, but Wars easily beats Trek. The tech level and diversity are much greater, offering many more opportunities.

[Thanas]

As long as you are a member of a core world, you pretty much live comfortably without fear of Imperial or Rebel warfare. The other planets....less so.

[SapphireFox]

Yeah, only how many federation citizens have been assimilated? I'll bet you its less than the population of Alderaan....

The OP is which universe you would want to live in, not which sector you want. Don't try a strawman of scale. If you want to argue galactic scale numbers then you had better Kami damn well include the whole bloody galaxy.

As for your borg they have assimilated whole worlds and control much of a quadrant of the galaxy. You cant well ignore them as a threat to that galaxy.

I feel bad for all five of the people who had to go through that. One in four Americans will get into a car accident. Do you think we should get rid of cars?

car crashes in 2005= 39,189 deaths by cigarettes ~440,000 per year so yea humanity has a track record of using stupid things that can kill you. The Enterprise has a transporter screw up of some kind at least twice a season and those are on the flagship. The best ship in the fleet and arguably the best maintained. So if they happen here you can be damn certain they happen elsewhere on lesser maintained craft and bases. There are hundreds of bases and thousands of ships that puts the potential number of transporter fuck ups around the ten thousand mark per year. Yes this is less than the number of car accidents but as it has been argued in theDo transporters kill thread the transporter may be killing you during the normal mode of operation given you become a disassociated cloud of subatomic particles. Even if you believe this is not death this still forces a mind screw in questioning your perceptions of death and what the definition of "me or I" really means.

At least the feds would have let the maqui live anywhere else. The empire would have simply said fuck negotiations and sent a fleet of star destroyers to take care of the rebel problem.

No the empire would have sent more ships in and crushed the competitor completely without mercy or reservation. Under the Empire the Maqui situation never would have come about.

Another 1 in a billion anomoly. I'd rather take my chances than live in a galaxy in constant civil war (and this applies to after the empire falls as well)

Not buying it. The Crystalline Entity has depopulated more worlds than the death star so if you want to include having the death star around as a minus to star wars then you better include something that has killed just as many and depopulated more worlds in star trek. Also if you want to include actually destroying planets then look to the doomsday device from TOS that destroyed whole systems of worlds and consumed them leaving a path of destruction through the galaxy.

Well you are a soldier...

A professional soldier can at least expect the basic gear to do your job and reasonably make it home alive. A redshirt on the other hand gets the red pajamas a communicator and if he is lucky a brain damaged pistol equivalent of a phaser. This is hardly basic survival gear.

Another one in a billion chance

More like one in seven, the monster of the week may be different each time and thus a billion to one individually but taken together we can see a pattern of deaths that have claimed more redshirts and extras then the crew complement of the first Enterprise.

From what I remember, Q saved all civilization as well...

No he gave Picard the chance to save it himself after he put it in danger by getting Picard to do the inverse tachyon scan in three different times.

Here's my challange to you: Sum up all of the deaths from the clone wars untill the first fall of palpatine. Then sum up all of the deaths from the first TNG episode to the end of the dominion war. If the wars deaths don't outnumber the trek deaths at least 100 to one I will automatically concede this debate.

Your challenge is the same strawman of scale I mentioned earlier. You can't reasonably expect the numbers in a sector of a galaxy to equal or even be remotely on par to a whole galaxy. Thus artificially inflating the apparent illusion of safety toward trek.

As for your challenge numbers lets see Alpha quadrant Trek would over the course of the listed time would be at least in the millions to tens of millions of deaths easy. Likely more if we could get a sense of what the other alpha quadrant powers suffered in deaths.

Wars I would put in the trillions of deaths.

You can see the scale at work here. A galaxy filled with little empires and civilizations will see more wars than a galaxy with one monolithic state.

[lord Martiya]

Wow, fresh meat...

Star trek: Replicators

Star Wars has too, for industrial production.

Transporters

No, thanks, I kinda fancy living myself instead of being disintegrated and cloned. Call me McCoy, and I'll thank you for the compliment.

No Poverty (on earth)

I still have some pride: if I was in ST, I'd like to be with the people who work for a living instead that with the lazy asses.

Inept Security forces

With the Borg around, that's suicide. I think I'll pass the wormhole and go into the Dominion: the Jem'Hadar at least do a decent job at keeping pests away, and as long they don't see me as the pest...

Star Wars: Droids for slaves

Nice! If I have enough money to buy one.

Slaves

Star Trek has them too (Remans). Probably even the Federation: somebody has to work to keep alive Earth's people.

Inept security forces

The problem is, most security forces are NOT inept.

Anyway, my choice is SW: faster travel, no need of choice between being a slaver or a slave, local tyrants at least do a decent job at running the place (compare Palpatine with the Klingon Empire), and even if I'm good only as military, at least I'll get decent training and equipment.

[Imperial528]

I'd say Star Wars. I'd probably save up some money while working on a core world to buy my own spaceship and just settle down on some nice rural rim world, far away from conflicts, but keep my ship working and fueled in case some Vong-like wank comes out from nowhere.

To me, just being able to own a space capable vehicle for personal reasons is a huge plus in SW, as how many civilians do we see in ST who own warp-driven craft? Zip. At least in SW, when the terror of the day/week/month/year rears its ugly alien head I don't have to wait for a slow-ass government to send a slow-ass ship to negotiate with it, and when negotiations fail take even longer to evacuate civilians. In SW, I can simply take my own ship or public transit and get the hell out of there before the entire planet/system gets cluster-fucked.

[Stofsk]

I'd say Star Wars. I'd probably save up some money while working on a core world to buy my own spaceship and just settle down on some nice rural rim world, far away from conflicts, but keep my ship working and fueled in case some Vong-like wank comes out from nowhere.

To me, just being able to own a space capable vehicle for personal reasons is a huge plus in SW, as how many civilians do we see in ST who own warp-driven craft? Zip. At least in SW, when the terror of the day/week/month/year rears its ugly alien head I don't have to wait for a slow-ass government to send a slow-ass ship to negotiate with it, and when negotiations fail take even longer to evacuate civilians. In SW, I can simply take my own ship or public transit and get the hell out of there before the entire planet/system gets cluster-fucked.

No civilians have their own spaceships? I presume you've never heard of Harry Mudd, Cyrano Jones, or the captain of the Merchantman in Star Trek III, just to name three immediate examples off the top of my head? There were also several examples in TNG and DS9 too. Even so, whoopdeedoo, you can own your own ship in Star Wars. At least until it gets blown up by a TIE pilot.

I'd rather be in Star Trek. At least they don't seem to suffer from wars with various assholes every week.