Should Picard be Court Martialed and dissmissed from service

Typhonis 1 · Post by **Typhonis 1** » 2002-08-23 02:43am

Givn his past performance from TNG till Insiurrection and given what he has done should Captain Picard face a court martial and dismissal from Star Fleet

Mr. B · Post by **Mr. B** » 2002-08-23 03:55am

Considering he has violated the Prime Directive every other episode and nearly starts a new war every season, YES CM the retard.

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2002-08-23 05:39am

Hell no. Violating the Prime Directive was the smartest thing Picard ever did. Starfleet should follow his example.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-08-23 06:14am

You he certainly should, both because he violated the prime directive about 75 times and because it would go a long way to expose the incompetence of the Federation in general. If the Federation has remotely sane judges, which may be too much to hope for, they'll realize just how fucked up Federation regulations are and do something about it.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-08-23 06:58am

Considering how idiotic the prime directive is and all the times he should have violated it but did not the yes put him on trial. But then agian the SF regulation are so mindlessly idiotic that you should put the whole goverment on trial...

Your pick, the scape-goat or the REVOLUTION!

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-08-23 07:05am

The entire point of the prime directive is to prevent SF from messing in everyones affairs but at the same time the Feds dont put comps ion charge of their starships partly because they tend to go crazy but also because a human can make the right call without following the letter of the law.

In short the prime directive looks good on paper but SF knows it cant be obeyed all the time, if the captain always sticks to the prime directive you end up with a creature of ultimate evil i.e Janeway.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2002-08-23 11:33am

Picard's actions in Inserrection were worse the what Kirk got Court Marshelled for. I think a court marshell is in order

Imperial Federation · Post by **Imperial Federation** » 2002-08-23 11:36am

Isolder74 wrote:Picard's actions in Inserrection were worse the what Kirk got Court Marshelled for. I think a court marshell is in order

Maybe they put that down to temporary insanity...

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-08-23 01:16pm

I think that he should be court-martialed, but not because of his violation of the Prime Directive. Other officers violate the said directive even more often than he does [cough] Janeway [end-cough]. But he definitely should be wrung up for Insurrection and some of his other adventures. IF the Federation was a more military organization, he probably would have been.

jegs2 · Post by **jegs2** » 2002-08-23 02:19pm

Someone fill me in -- does the ST military forces (if that's what they are) subject themselves to a code or just the Prime Directive? The US military falls under the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ). Is there some kind of equivalent for ST military forces? If such a code does exist, then of which article or set of articles is Picard in violation?

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2002-08-23 02:23pm

jegs2 wrote:Someone fill me in -- does the ST military forces (if that's what they are) subject themselves to a code or just the Prime Directive? The US military falls under the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ). Is there some kind of equivalent for ST military forces? If such a code does exist, then of which article or set of articles is Picard in violation?

It appears to exist at least in Kirk's Era.

Lets see Picard violates orders, attackes a Federation operation. and is definatally guilty of insubordination

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2002-08-23 07:04pm

...but not for anything he did in the movie Insurrection. Since Admiral Santa Claus was acting illegally himself, Picard was under both legal and moral obligations to disobey his criminal superior.

No, Jean-Luc Picard should have been called up before a trial board for gross incompetence in command for the J-25 Borg First Contact Incident ("Q-Who?") and the Braslota Incident ("Peak Performance"). Both times, he nearly got his ship destroyed because he ignored evident dangers and failed to act in a timely and decisive manner to ensure the safety of his crew. He had already been courtmartialed once for the loss of the Stargazer, but he really should have been charged with leaving an intact, yet derelict, starship to fall into enemy hands —if not then, then certainly when the ship was delivered into his hands by the Ferengi in "The Last Battle".

Compared to that, violating the Prime Directive is trivial. Hell, that doesn't even get you a severe talking-to in today's Starfleet.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-08-23 07:50pm

I like how he repeatedly endangers the ship by allowing aliens to open fire on it, while not doing anything like running away or shooting at them. I also like how he repeatedly takes practically the entire senior staff with him whenever he leaves the ship, which sometimes (I've been looking at their chain of command) leaving the ship in the command of the COUNSELOR!

Raptor 597 · Post by **Raptor 597** » 2002-08-23 09:48pm

Master of Ossus wrote:I like how he repeatedly endangers the ship by allowing aliens to open fire on it, while not doing anything like running away or shooting at them. I also like how he repeatedly takes practically the entire senior staff with him whenever he leaves the ship, which sometimes (I've been looking at their chain of command) leaving the ship in the command of the COUNSELOR!

Ah, another case of Federation Counsellor/Commands Problem Stupidity. But then what else can you expect from the Federation but leaving a Counsellor commanding a ship.

Doomriser · Post by **Doomriser** » 2002-08-23 09:55pm

PICARD'S SURRENDERS:

* "Encounter at Farpoint": Picard says "Transmit the following in all
languages and in all frequencies: 'We surrender'."
* "The Outrageous Okono": Picard drops shields "In case we decide to
surrender to them."
* "A Matter of Honor": Picard surrenders to Riker on the Pagh.
* "Peak Performance": Riker asks Picard "Would you care to surrender now?" even before the wargames begin.
* "Peak Performance": Picard surrenders to the Ferengi, but they don't accept.
* "The Last Outpost": Picard tries to surrender to the Ferengi, but they beat him to it.

SELF-DESTRUCTS:

* "11001001": Picard tries to self destruct.
* "Where Silence Has Lease": Picard tries to self destruct for Nagilum.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2002-08-24 05:26am

Captain Lennox wrote:
Master of Ossus wrote:I like how he repeatedly endangers the ship by allowing aliens to open fire on it, while not doing anything like running away or shooting at them. I also like how he repeatedly takes practically the entire senior staff with him whenever he leaves the ship, which sometimes (I've been looking at their chain of command) leaving the ship in the command of the COUNSELOR!
Ah, another case of Federation Counsellor/Commands Problem Stupidity. But then what else can you expect from the Federation but leaving a Counsellor commanding a ship.

Leaving the doctor in command of the ship

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-08-24 05:41am

The doctor is allowed to command the ship, she took commmand training and is fully qualified for it.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2002-08-24 05:42am

TheDarkling wrote:The doctor is allowed to command the ship, she took commmand training and is fully qualified for it.

what's next the cook in command he went to the accademy too

Lusankya · Post by **Lusankya** » 2002-08-24 06:36am

Hell no. Violating the Prime Directive was the smartest thing Picard ever did. Starfleet should follow his example.

It doesn't matter whether a law is just or not. If you disobey it, then you may be taken to court for it. If the law is considered to be unjust, then you must find an amendment in the constitution which the law violates.

Since the Prime Directive, stupid piece of crap that it is, seems to be held up like the constitution, then I'd say the Federation may have to hold a referendum to change it.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-08-24 06:52am

Isolder74: If the cook was also a commander who had taken the tests to allow him to command (and passed) then yes the cook can take command.

It isnt just going to the academy theres special tests to allow an officier to command and Crusher took and passed those.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2002-08-24 07:10pm

TheDarkling wrote:The doctor is allowed to command the ship, she took commmand training and is fully qualified for it.

A Question. How did the ships doctor and counciller (who they made an officer) get on the change of command, much less so high that they it was possible for them to end up in charge?

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2002-08-24 07:14pm

On topic, there is more than enough reason to court-martial Picard. He's violated direct orders, abandoned his post on numerous occasions (some times in the face of the enemy, which is much worse), endangered the lives of civilians and children many times, and has nearly lost his ship due to gross incompetance.

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2002-08-24 07:29pm

"Disaster", the episode where the Enterprise was struck with the quantum filament-thingy. She was the most senior officer on the bridge then, and she was ready for the Big Chair. She was even wearing her Special Command Bunny-suit™ for the occasion.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-08-24 08:32pm

Gil Hamilton: They took command trainnig otherwise they arent very high on the chain of command at all.

Before she took command training Troi outranked an enlisted man (O'Brien) and an ensign (Ro Laren) but she wasnt higher in the chain of command than Lt Worf even though she outranks him (shes was a Lt.Cm).

oberon · Post by **oberon** » 2002-08-24 09:58pm

When you know that the modern chain of command differentiates between staff and line officers, with line officers filling the command role and the staff officers, never (exceptions for POWs, if they are the senior officer present), AND you know that the line officers spend their entire career preparing for command, not by testing into it, but by spending years at a time in each and every ship system and getting warfare-qualified, including war college if need be, basically a PhD in fighting, then it's hard to justify a staff officer such as a doctor or anyone else getting command of anything. It's patently ridiculous the way they will give a buck ensign command of an entire department, totally ignoring the senior officers with experience in that department. Buck ensigns are in charge of a division for a couple years before they rotate to another division, and it takes a good 20something years to get through all the DIVO billets and become department heads, then be able to command all the department heads and not only that, but to "fight the ship." It's never an issue of "They filled out their personal quals and tested for the position." ST stretches SOD too far. If I watch something, I want it to be something I can identify with. You can have incredible situations, but as far as the basic human interaction goes, you need to have some realism, and ST doesn't. Ever.

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Should Picard be Court Martialed and dissmissed from service

should he be court martialed?

Should Picard be Court Martialed and dissmissed from service

Oh, he should have been courtmartialed...

Ah, but Deanna did command once: