Resonance Torps vs. Trilithium device, more sophisticated?

[THEHOOLIGANJEDI]

Personally, I think the Suncrushers RT are more sophisticated, they can supernova any star, even low mass stars Like our sun. In ST Generations, the trilithium device as far as I know didn't actually cause a supernova, according to Worf it could stop all fusion within a Star (actually they never mention the word Supernova once). According to what I know a supernova is not stopping fusion in a star, but lots of other factors. Plus a supernova explosion is extremely Violent and can outshine it's galaxy for weeks. In Generations there's an explosion, the Star getting smaller and cooling off and a level 12 shockwave, so I don't think it's a supernova, but something else.

[Cpt_Frank]

Both get the job of killing a star system done.
Probably the resonance torp is more sophisticated.

Either way it doesn't matter since the trilithium divice is lost tech.

[THEHOOLIGANJEDI]

true, but it's just a question I had going for a while.

[Ender]

Trilithium device is lost tech.

The ability to make stars go boom has been part of Wars for over 5000 years (ref Tales of the Jedi)

Resonance torps wins.

[THEHOOLIGANJEDI]

Trilithium device is lost tech.

The ability to make stars go boom has been part of Wars for over 5000 years (ref Tales of the Jedi)

Resonance torps wins.

care to elaborate?

[Ender]

Lost tech = they can't use it

Tech around for 5000+ years = available if they choose to spend their resources that way.

Hence, the Wars stuff is better, in the context of debates.

[THEHOOLIGANJEDI]

Lost tech = they can't use it

Tech around for 5000+ years = available if they choose to spend their resources that way.

Hence, the Wars stuff is better, in the context of debates.

No No I meant about the Starbursting tech they had in Tales of the Jedi. My fault for not specifying.

[Ender]

For once, KJA's complete and utter lack of any writing talent aids the warsies.

Exar Kun has them use a Sith weapon from a 1000 year old starship to blow up a cluster of 7 stars in TotJ. The Shockwave was going to bather Ossus in radiation in a few hours (good job paying attention to stellar physics there Kev ) so it had to be evacuated and Kun swooped in and stole a bunch of Jedi and Sith artifacts in the confusion.

[SPOOFE]

There's no word on if the Trilithium device has any significant effect on targets other than stars. The resonance torpedo, on the other hand, will affect just about ANY matter, regardless of its density.

[Chris OFarrell]

There's no word on if the Trilithium device has any significant effect on targets other than stars. The resonance torpedo, on the other hand, will affect just about ANY matter, regardless of its density.

Well, in DS9 "By Infernos Light", when talking about the Wormhole, they state that the anti graviton beams made the Wormhole superstable (rather then sealing it up). O'Brien then comments something like: "Its so stable not even Trilithium explosives will damage it now".

In terms of advancement, I'd say the Trilithuim weapons are more advanced. The resonance torpedoes take several hours to push a star to go supernova. The Trilithium weapons actualy cut down all fussion inside a star. The implosion then produces a shockwave that can crack a planet into an asteriod belt on impact, the sun crusher induces a supernova that has several waves to it. Trilithium weapons are far faster and easier to deploy. I'm not sure, but I think Kyp had to get quite close to the stars to launch them. Soran fired his from an Earth type planet, signifying a preaty long range.

Though the big advantage is that the Resonace torpedoes can causae damage to things other then Stars. The DS1 prototype (even though it was little more then an empty shell) had 11% of its superstructure eaten by a hit. While we hear of Trilithium explosives in a few episodes like Starship Mine and some Voyager one (of course Generataions claims that no-one has even HEARD of Trilithium before then even though the bloody E-D's warp engines produce it as a byproduct!), its hard to know power.

[THEHOOLIGANJEDI]

There's no word on if the Trilithium device has any significant effect on targets other than stars. The resonance torpedo, on the other hand, will affect just about ANY matter, regardless of its density.

Well, in DS9 "By Infernos Light", when talking about the Wormhole, they state that the anti graviton beams made the Wormhole superstable (rather then sealing it up). O'Brien then comments something like: "Its so stable not even Trilithium explosives will damage it now".

In terms of advancement, I'd say the Trilithuim weapons are more advanced. The resonance torpedoes take several hours to push a star to go supernova. The Trilithium weapons actualy cut down all fussion inside a star. The implosion then produces a shockwave that can crack a planet into an asteriod belt on impact, the sun crusher induces a supernova that has several waves to it. Trilithium weapons are far faster and easier to deploy. I'm not sure, but I think Kyp had to get quite close to the stars to launch them. Soran fired his from an Earth type planet, signifying a preaty long range.

Though the big advantage is that the Resonace torpedoes can causae damage to things other then Stars. The DS1 prototype (even though it was little more then an empty shell) had 11% of its superstructure eaten by a hit. While we hear of Trilithium explosives in a few episodes like Starship Mine and some Voyager one (of course Generataions claims that no-one has even HEARD of Trilithium before then even though the bloody E-D's warp engines produce it as a byproduct!), its hard to know power.

Actually you are incorrect in some occassions. It takes only 2 hours for the Star to go supernova (plus the fact that it can Supernova stars like our sun that don't naturally Supernova). Oh and the Only reason Kyp fired the RT close to the Sun b/c he was shaking off TIE intereceptors, he could have fired them from anywhere in the system b/c the RT move at near the speed of light, which was way faster than Soran's missile.
As for Trilithium, That word and others are thrown around and used inconsistently throughout Star Trek so don't assume that they all have similar meanings.

[Omega-13]

actually thats wrong, it takes light 8 minutes to reach the earth, and it only took the trilithium torpedo, 15 seconds

so the ST version is hundreds of times faster

[SirNitram]

actually thats wrong, it takes light 8 minutes to reach the earth, and it only took the trilithium torpedo, 15 seconds

so the ST version is hundreds of times faster

But we saw it move, so it can't have been going FTL.

[Omega-13]

actually thats wrong, it takes light 8 minutes to reach the earth, and it only took the trilithium torpedo, 15 seconds

so the ST version is hundreds of times faster

But we saw it move, so it can't have been going FTL.

no we saw it begin to accelerate off the planet, it could have accelerated to such a speed where 15 seconds was possible,

I've just done some looking up on super nova's on the net, lots of interesting things, the most interesting is that when a star goes supernova, it gets 100 BILLION times brighter, so there is no way in fucking hell those ST torpedo's make a star go supernova, also i'd like to point this out
The suncrusher has windows, so if the star went super nova, and it can survive the shockwave (yea right) why isn't the crew roasted, and their eyes burned out from the 100 billion times brighter star, seems a bit bullshit to me

[SirNitram]

actually thats wrong, it takes light 8 minutes to reach the earth, and it only took the trilithium torpedo, 15 seconds

so the ST version is hundreds of times faster

But we saw it move, so it can't have been going FTL.

no we saw it begin to accelerate off the planet, it could have accelerated to such a speed where 15 seconds was possible,

I've just done some looking up on super nova's on the net, lots of interesting things, the most interesting is that when a star goes supernova, it gets 100 BILLION times brighter, so there is no way in fucking hell those ST torpedo's make a star go supernova, also i'd like to point this out
The suncrusher has windows, so if the star went super nova, and it can survive the shockwave (yea right) why isn't the crew roasted, and their eyes burned out from the 100 billion times brighter star, seems a bit bullshit to me

Because it's KJA's writing, and the Suncrusher is, by his logic, invincible. We can, luckily, derive exact figures for it's armour from this.

[Omega-13]

depends what range the suncrusher was at, when it got hit by the shockwave, an the rest of the particles

[Darth Garden Gnome]

Well from what I understand, SW windows filter out light at fractions of a second, should it ever become to bright.

Also, did the SC survive a supernova? I don't remember much about the JAT (after the shock therapy ), so you'll have to remind me. If so, then a blast from the DS proto-type damaged it, whos beam is weaker than that of the DS1, and DS2. Sooooo, that would mean:

super nova < Sun Crusher

Sun Crusher < DS shot

super nova < DS shot

That would mean the DSs shots unleash more energy to a supernova, I think. Probably not, so feel free to correct me and my flawed logic.

[Omega-13]

Well from what I understand, SW windows filter out light at fractions of a second, should it ever become to bright.

Also, did the SC survive a supernova? I don't remember much about the JAT (after the shock therapy ), so you'll have to remind me. If so, then a blast from the DS proto-type damaged it, whos beam is weaker than that of the DS1, and DS2. Sooooo, that would mean:

super nova < Sun Crusher

Sun Crusher < DS shot

super nova < DS shot

That would mean the DSs shots unleash more energy to a supernova, I think. Probably not, so feel free to correct me and my flawed logic.

"A supernova releases as much kinetic energy as the sun will radiate over its entire lifetime," said Rob Hoffman, of LLNL and one of the principal scientists for the project. "They are the best bang since the big one."


A star lasts about 10 billion years, the deathstar blast had as much energy as a sun in 7000 years, so a supernova releases
1428571 times the energy of the super laser blast, nevermind the rest of the shit it throws out into the solar system, including heat, and atomic particles, and the sun crusher survived this?
Could we say that this is over written by the fact that it got damaged by a GLANCING shot from the super laser?

[Chris OFarrell]

There's no word on if the Trilithium device has any significant effect on targets other than stars. The resonance torpedo, on the other hand, will affect just about ANY matter, regardless of its density.

Well, in DS9 "By Infernos Light", when talking about the Wormhole, they state that the anti graviton beams made the Wormhole superstable (rather then sealing it up). O'Brien then comments something like: "Its so stable not even Trilithium explosives will damage it now".

In terms of advancement, I'd say the Trilithuim weapons are more advanced. The resonance torpedoes take several hours to push a star to go supernova. The Trilithium weapons actualy cut down all fussion inside a star. The implosion then produces a shockwave that can crack a planet into an asteriod belt on impact, the sun crusher induces a supernova that has several waves to it. Trilithium weapons are far faster and easier to deploy. I'm not sure, but I think Kyp had to get quite close to the stars to launch them. Soran fired his from an Earth type planet, signifying a preaty long range.

Though the big advantage is that the Resonace torpedoes can causae damage to things other then Stars. The DS1 prototype (even though it was little more then an empty shell) had 11% of its superstructure eaten by a hit. While we hear of Trilithium explosives in a few episodes like Starship Mine and some Voyager one (of course Generataions claims that no-one has even HEARD of Trilithium before then even though the bloody E-D's warp engines produce it as a byproduct!), its hard to know power.

Actually you are incorrect in some occassions. It takes only 2 hours for the Star to go supernova (plus the fact that it can Supernova stars like our sun that don't naturally Supernova).

Dito with the Trilithium torpedoes. The Veridium system had what appeared to be a standard yellow star and the torpedo was able to induce the collapse and shockwave. Worf said that Trilithium could 'Stop all fussion within a star', he didn't limit it to specific types of stars.

Oh and the Only reason Kyp fired the RT close to the Sun b/c he was shaking off TIE intereceptors, he could have fired them from anywhere in the system b/c the RT move at near the speed of light, which was way faster than Soran's missile.

You need to check some facts here.

1. Sorrens planet was a standard M class planet which appears to be orbiting a standard star. His missile was calculated to be able to reach the star between 8 and 15 seconds after launch. Dito with Armagosa, the solar probe was launched into the star 'a few moments ago'. Not 'a few minuites ago'. Solar probes clearly have warp drives and can move light minuites in seconds. Also note that the E-D accounting for this would have been able to shoot it down, but it would have taken between 8 and 15 seconds to lock their weapons (by that I guess they mean chasing it, getting into range and getting a targeting lock as they don't have a point of origin).

2. The RT's were never said to move at C to my knowledge. Nor did I hear of them having ranges that you described. Kyp didn't get so close to the sun to 'shake off' some Tie Interceptors, a bloody ISD isn't even the slightest threat to him. He went to the star to induce the supernova, not to get rid of the Interceptors. Do you have a source which shows the RT's moving at C? When he was fighting the DS in the Maw, IIRC it has bits where he watches as the torpedoes home in on the DS which he is orbiting closely. If they moved at C, they would move WAY too fast for him to track visualy.

As for Trilithium, That word and others are thrown around and used inconsistently throughout Star Trek so don't assume that they all have similar meanings.

Riiiight. So despite the word being the exact same word, we can't assume it has the same meaning and is the same thing?

[Chris OFarrell]

There's no word on if the Trilithium device has any significant effect on targets other than stars. The resonance torpedo, on the other hand, will affect just about ANY matter, regardless of its density.

Well, in DS9 "By Infernos Light", when talking about the Wormhole, they state that the anti graviton beams made the Wormhole superstable (rather then sealing it up). O'Brien then comments something like: "Its so stable not even Trilithium explosives will damage it now".

In terms of advancement, I'd say the Trilithuim weapons are more advanced. The resonance torpedoes take several hours to push a star to go supernova. The Trilithium weapons actualy cut down all fussion inside a star. The implosion then produces a shockwave that can crack a planet into an asteriod belt on impact, the sun crusher induces a supernova that has several waves to it. Trilithium weapons are far faster and easier to deploy. I'm not sure, but I think Kyp had to get quite close to the stars to launch them. Soran fired his from an Earth type planet, signifying a preaty long range.

Though the big advantage is that the Resonace torpedoes can causae damage to things other then Stars. The DS1 prototype (even though it was little more then an empty shell) had 11% of its superstructure eaten by a hit. While we hear of Trilithium explosives in a few episodes like Starship Mine and some Voyager one (of course Generataions claims that no-one has even HEARD of Trilithium before then even though the bloody E-D's warp engines produce it as a byproduct!), its hard to know power.

Actually you are incorrect in some occassions. It takes only 2 hours for the Star to go supernova (plus the fact that it can Supernova stars like our sun that don't naturally Supernova).

Dito with the Trilithium torpedoes. The Veridium system had what appeared to be a standard yellow star and the torpedo was able to induce the collapse and shockwave. Worf said that Trilithium could 'Stop all fussion within a star', he didn't limit it to specific types of stars.

Oh and the Only reason Kyp fired the RT close to the Sun b/c he was shaking off TIE intereceptors, he could have fired them from anywhere in the system b/c the RT move at near the speed of light, which was way faster than Soran's missile.

You need to check some facts here.

1. Sorrens planet was a standard M class planet which appears to be orbiting a standard star. His missile was calculated to be able to reach the star between 8 and 15 seconds after launch. Dito with Armagosa, the solar probe was launched into the star 'a few moments ago'. Not 'a few minuites ago'. Solar probes clearly have warp drives and can move light minuites in seconds. Also note that the E-D accounting for this would have been able to shoot it down, but it would have taken between 8 and 15 seconds to lock their weapons (by that I guess they mean chasing it, getting into range and getting a targeting lock as they don't have a point of origin).

2. The RT's were never said to move at C to my knowledge. Nor did I hear of them having ranges that you described. Kyp didn't get so close to the sun to 'shake off' some Tie Interceptors, a bloody ISD isn't even the slightest threat to him. He went to the star to induce the supernova, not to get rid of the Interceptors. Do you have a source which shows the RT's moving at C? When he was fighting the DS in the Maw, IIRC it has bits where he watches as the torpedoes home in on the DS which he is orbiting closely. If they moved at C, they would move WAY too fast for him to track visualy.

As for Trilithium, That word and others are thrown around and used inconsistently throughout Star Trek so don't assume that they all have similar meanings.

Riiiight. So despite the word being the exact same word, we can't assume it has the same meaning and is the same thing?

[Omega-13]

Worf said that Trilithium could 'Stop all fussion within a star', he didn't limit it to specific types of stars.

whatever its doing, its not a supernova resulting

[Chris OFarrell]

Worf said that Trilithium could 'Stop all fussion within a star', he didn't limit it to specific types of stars.

whatever its doing, its not a supernova resulting

I never claimed it was. It also shunts some of the mass of the star somewhere else as we see in the movie, altering the gravitational effects throughout the sector. A star going supernova doesn't do that, the mass stays the same.

Its also intersting to note the technology does not appear to be lost technology, at least to the Dominion.

[Eleas]

A star lasts about 10 billion years, the deathstar blast had as much energy as a sun in 7000 years, so a supernova releases
1428571 times the energy of the super laser blast, nevermind the rest of the shit it throws out into the solar system, including heat, and atomic particles, and the sun crusher survived this?
Could we say that this is over written by the fact that it got damaged by a GLANCING shot from the super laser?

Not necessarily, I'm sorry to say. See, the energy of the Superlaser is concentrated along the beam. The energy of a Supernova is a shockwave, and thus evenly distributed along a widening spherical shell. The farther out the SC would be, the less energy it would absorb.

[THEHOOLIGANJEDI]

[quote="Chris O'Farrell
2. The RT's were never said to move at C to my knowledge. Nor did I hear of them having ranges that you described. Kyp didn't get so close to the sun to 'shake off' some Tie Interceptors, a bloody ISD isn't even the slightest threat to him. He went to the star to induce the supernova, not to get rid of the Interceptors. Do you have a source which shows the RT's moving at C? When he was fighting the DS in the Maw, IIRC it has bits where he watches as the torpedoes home in on the DS which he is orbiting closely. If they moved at C, they would move WAY too fast for him to track visualy.

As for Trilithium, That word and others are thrown around and used inconsistently throughout Star Trek so don't assume that they all have similar meanings.

Riiiight. So despite the word being the exact same word, we can't assume it has the same meaning and is the same thing?[/quote]

Read Star Wars The Essential Guide to weapons and Technology at your local Bookstore. (black cover)
It staes that a RT can move NEAR the speed of light. Based on that you can assume they can fired from anywhere in the system.

[THEHOOLIGANJEDI]

[quote="Chris O'Farrell
2. The RT's were never said to move at C to my knowledge. Nor did I hear of them having ranges that you described. Kyp didn't get so close to the sun to 'shake off' some Tie Interceptors, a bloody ISD isn't even the slightest threat to him. He went to the star to induce the supernova, not to get rid of the Interceptors. Do you have a source which shows the RT's moving at C? When he was fighting the DS in the Maw, IIRC it has bits where he watches as the torpedoes home in on the DS which he is orbiting closely. If they moved at C, they would move WAY too fast for him to track visualy.

As for Trilithium, That word and others are thrown around and used inconsistently throughout Star Trek so don't assume that they all have similar meanings.

Riiiight. So despite the word being the exact same word, we can't assume it has the same meaning and is the same thing?

Read Star Wars The Essential Guide to weapons and Technology at your local Bookstore. (black cover)
It staes that a RT can move NEAR the speed of light. Based on that you can assume they can fired from anywhere in the system.[/quote] If they are moving at those speeds it would take A lot of distance, a lot of friction to stop something with that much momentum.

Plus I'm just so right about Trek, they throw words around all the time. Most recently Transphasic. Oh and speaking of phase, they've been throwing that word around since TNG. (but More so in Voyager)