Thrawn and Kirk in ISDs

Failed Glory · Post by **Failed Glory** » 2002-09-11 02:03pm

For fun, Kirk, in some twist of fate, gets his hands on an ISD.

However, Kirk and his Federation crew have time to train and Fight in the ISD. Consider them elite folk, whose familiarity with the ship and associated Tie fighters is as good as it will ever be (ie, no arguments based on the fact that the Imp Navy is better acquanted with the ISD or her equipment and support fighters).

Thrawn is sent out to subdue the malinger with one ISD. He has the best pilots and crew the Imperial Navy has to offer.

Both ships are ISD I with full complement of Ties.

Who wins? Captain Kirk and his Federation elite crew or Admiral Thrawn and the Imperial Navys' best?

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2002-09-11 02:22pm

I HAVE to go with Kirk on this one...and not handedly, I voted for ripped shirt, battered ship but victorious, maybe he'll even have some blood in the corner of his mouth that he has to wipe away.

This is an interesting fight in that the ship are equal so it comes down to the commanders. Thrawn is my FAVORITE character from the EU and Kirk is FAVORITE CHARACTER of all time...so it's very tough, but I have to give it to Kirk. He has pulled his and his crew's butts out of the fire too many times to count, and some of thos ebattles have not been easy.

Kirk would not act predictablt like most SF captains and I think this owuld throw Thrawn off. After reviewing some Fed art he would have a nice battle plan ready to go that Kirk would weasel out of by thinking outside the box. This makes thrawn improvise and it becomes a battle of wills. Eventually it woudl be like the battle in Balance of Terror. I can just see Thrawn muttering: "This one's a sorceror, he knows my thoughts."

In one drama intense barrage, Thrawn manages to cripple Kirk's ISD, Kirk rams Thrawn's ship and he manages to scramble over to the ship, fighting Thrawn hand to hand, after some Kirk fu action Thrawn is defeated. Kirk teaches Thrawn about mercy after accepting his honorable surrender...they become stubborn friends.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-11 02:35pm

Lol, While I normaly would go with Kirk VS anyone, VS Thrawn, I'm sorry but Thrawn IS Thrawn, He has a nice statagy worked out and while they have time to pred fundmentaly Kirk will either want to be in a TIE

or on the Bridge.

Futhermore Thrawn has the 181's on his side(You said THE best after all) The 181's by itself even without Thrawn's genius is hard to handle considering who you had flying in the 181's and the fact they are tradtionaly Interceptor or worse yet Defenders.

If I where the Thrawn here I'd use my fighter cover to play Long Range and send them in after the ISD while I hang back, The 181's can take care of it self extremly well and slaps Kirks cover down with ease leaving him free to use the 181's as a surgeical strike mecnahism, I'd have them swing off, HTL till Kirk's shield goes down then go turtle and pump all my energy into shielding while the 181's and the rest of whatevers left cleans the hull of Kirks weapons

This is where Kirk gets to shine here he can do everything from try and Ram me(Thrawn will expect that) to a werid arse strata-game like using the At-AT's as KE missles

Remeber we get a Thrawn like view of most charaters in book because we read thier thoughts and see what they so

That comes to Thrawn naturaly, And if he can do that pracitaly on the fly, VS Kirk, an oppent he's had a chance to study?

Good fight but no contest Thrawn

Romulan_nemesis · Post by **Romulan_nemesis** » 2002-09-11 05:21pm

It's James Tiberius Kirk. Enough said already! He's a legend! And with Scotty Spock, Uhura, Bones Sulu and Chekov behind him, definately makes him a force to be reckoned with. He's gotten out of worse situations than an ISD and Admiral Thrawn before.

Rommie

Evil Jerk · Post by **Evil Jerk** » 2002-09-11 05:30pm

Romulan_nemesis wrote:It's James Tiberius Kirk. Enough said already! He's a legend! And with Scotty Spock, Uhura, Bones Sulu and Chekov behind him, definately makes him a force to be reckoned with. He's gotten out of worse situations than an ISD and Admiral Thrawn before.

Rommie

Like?

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-09-11 05:34pm

Thrawn is a better tactician and strategist than Kirk could ever hope to be. While Kirk is inventive, no single maneuver could hope to defeat Thrawn. And Thrawn does not make silly mistakes like so many of Kirk's enemies during the show. I think Thrawn takes the conflict as easily as it is possible for one ISD to destroy another.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2002-09-11 05:35pm

Fuck Character shields. Thrawn wins.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-11 05:37pm

I have to dissagree with you there Rommie, NO one in ST has ever met anything close to Thrawn

(Ok if Uber Jedi's here are terrified of him showing up even though the Empire is in the Shitter and everyone thinks he has a chance of taking over despite the 50:1 odds aginst him SAYS somthing)

Romulan_nemesis · Post by **Romulan_nemesis** » 2002-09-11 05:38pm

The "God" maybe.
The Planet Killers, Khan (Khan's pretty bad, but not the baddest)
The V'ger thing. (Not the best movie, but still a pretty bad situation)
The Planet Killers definately.

ONE ISD is not a big deal to Kirk.

Thrawn could think he's got it all under his thumb, but he hasn't screwed with James T. Kirk yet. The fact that Kirk has an ISD makes it sweeter.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-09-11 05:38pm

You would say that, wouldn't you?

I think Thrawn will come away slightly battered, but easily victorious.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-11 05:41pm

The "God" maybe.
The Planet Killers, Khan (Khan's pretty bad, but not the baddest)
The V'ger thing. (Not the best movie, but still a pretty bad situation)
The Planet Killers definately.

Did the God know what Kirk was thinking before Kirk thought it?
Do any of these things have anything remotly to do with Stratagy?

No, Kirk has been in tigh spots before, But never THIS tight

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-09-11 05:43pm

I think that many of the Trekkies here are having difficulty understanding exactly how good Thrawn really is. Thrawn has NO weaknesses, as a strategist or tactician. He can predict his opponent's moves with flawless accuracy. He considers all possible courses of action with the resources he believes his enemies have available and chooses a method of forcing them into one course of action that is detrimental to them. Remember that he destroyed MORE THAN HALF of the Imperial Navy with a paltry force of ships. And he was up against another excellent strategist and tactician when he did it. Even Kirk would stand no chance.

Evil Jerk · Post by **Evil Jerk** » 2002-09-11 05:47pm

The "God" maybe.

You mean the one where everybody from loony Vulcans to rogue Klingons had to save his ass?

The Planet Killers,

To what are you referring? The Doomsday Device? Big deal, it was a machine.

Khan (Khan's pretty bad, but not the baddest)

1st time: If it hadn't been for that woman he'd be sucking vacuum though.
As for the rest, well, no-one bests Kirk in a fist fight, at least.

2nd time: Khan didn't know jack about space combat.
Advantage: Kirk
Plus.. Kirk really should've raised those shields..

The V'ger thing. (Not the best movie, but still a pretty bad situation)

Again, a machine, (Kirk > machines) who really wasn't out to defeat Kirk anyway.

I'd say those were not worse than Thrawn with an ISD.

Romulan_nemesis · Post by **Romulan_nemesis** » 2002-09-11 05:47pm

Maybe I underestimated Thrawn, I just looked up a little on him, i was a little cloudy before. But Kirk is still Kirk. While Thrawn may have a bigger advantage, Theres still a possibility that while battle scarred, bloodied up, kirk and the enterprise crew on an isd would be victorious.

I may have underestimated thrawn, but nobody has NO weaknesses whatsoever.

Rommie.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-11 05:53pm

I may have underestimated thrawn, but nobody has NO weaknesses whatsoever.

Yes Thrawn's Weakness is he can't loose

Just Kidding, If Thrawn has a weakness however no one ever saw it to be honest, he made mistakes but never showed a weakness

Romulan_nemesis · Post by **Romulan_nemesis** » 2002-09-11 05:55pm

His confidence in predicting his enemies' movements is underestimating them. Thats a weakness. Not a very big one, but a weakness. If Kirk can't win, he'll deal him a bad ass blow.

........Why would Thrawn and Kirk be fighting ANYWAY?

Rommie

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-09-11 06:01pm

Please explain what possible tactic/strategy/idea Kirk could use to do any damage to Thrawn. Thrawn has NO weaknesses. How the hell do you guys think he could defeat HALF of the Imperial Navy with a paltry force of his own. How do you think he could conquer more than one hundred sectors in less than a decade? No strategy or tactic will work against Thrawn, because he is able to predict them. This is not a weakness. Kirk is screwed.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2002-09-11 06:04pm

Throw Character Shields out the airlock, and it is very simple.

An ISD requires more crewman then the Connie, so they will be running at less then skeleton crew. Thus they cannot fight at peak efficiency, even if they are the best of the best.

Thrawn beats the pants off them.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-11 06:08pm

His confidence in predicting his enemies' movements is underestimating them.

HE has no confidence, HE NEVER ASSUMES

Thats impossible for Humans but some-how Thrawn pulls it off, He assumes nothing and always triple checks himself and still avoids being paralised. This is the SOB who can somone-how figure out that 28.9 seconds means three people going between two ships. Or that crazy stunt with the mole-miners, Brillant idea and he comes out with TONS of them like he's breathing but one thing he never.. never does is underesmate or asume

Vendetta · Post by **Vendetta** » 2002-09-11 06:40pm

<i>If Thrawn has a weakness however no one ever saw it to be honest,</i>

He had the exact same weakness the Emperor did. He ignored a potential factor in the conflict.

And the factor he ignored were highly trained death commandos, not teddy bears with spears and rocks.

He placed absolute faith in the Noghri's loyalty, despite the fact that they were a supremely dangerous tool, he didn't take any care using them or disposing of them.

In the end, he died because he was a silly bastard.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-09-11 08:04pm

Thanks but we have our own escape plan, I'll keep you in mind though as a backup, no plan survives contact with the enemy." Bataev abruptly hung up.

"Smash the door!" One man blasted the lock with his shotgun before another kicked in what was left. They charged in to find the last two defenders with their backs to the door. Both where dropped almost instantly.

"Clear!" "Clear!" "Clear" shouted various leaders. "All right you know the drill, search for drugs and collect weapons, and get our wounded and dead into the cars. Finish off the Russians, and someone get the thermite rigged. We have three minutes."

Six rapid gunshots rang out from a pair of three round bursts into a pair of wounded Russians. Another man threw a dozen kilos of coke sitting on a table into a large bag he had. The three Chechen wounded were quickly hauled out.

Ten one pound thermite canisters were scatted throughout the building and among the boxes and vehicles inside. The powerful incendiary would burn everything when it detonated, the timers were for eight minutes.

"Lets get out of hear" shouted Bataev. Just then he heard police sirens, very close, then a burst of SAW fire.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-09-11 09:02pm

...um?

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-11 09:05pm

Aye what did Sea mean by that post?

Admiral Drason · Post by **Admiral Drason** » 2002-09-11 09:18pm

Man thats a one sided battle.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-09-11 10:38pm

Vendetta wrote:<i>If Thrawn has a weakness however no one ever saw it to be honest,</i>

He had the exact same weakness the Emperor did. He ignored a potential factor in the conflict.

And the factor he ignored were highly trained death commandos, not teddy bears with spears and rocks.

He placed absolute faith in the Noghri's loyalty, despite the fact that they were a supremely dangerous tool, he didn't take any care using them or disposing of them.

In the end, he died because he was a silly bastard.

Wrong. He had no information one what was actually going on, and did not realize that his opponents had a resource. Note that the commanding officers of the opposing fleet never realized that they had these assets, or Thrawn might have been able to find them. This happened to him twice, actually, with the first time being Lando and his Mole Miners. Lack of action based on a lack of information is not a weakness. That is like saying that the US was extremely weak because it was unable to foresee the attacks on September 11 before they happened. Since many military struggles are so close, to have a plan ready in the case of any possible contingency would actually be more of a weakness than what Thrawn was doing. You misinterpret his proper strategy as a weakness.

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