Imps Vs. Trek with a twist

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2002-09-13 07:26pm

Standard wormhole opening between two universes. And imps invade.

However, the UFP realizes its iminent doom and goes to seek the help of every super species they ever met (with the exception of the Q like gods) whom all agree to support the UFP in this moment of crisis. And to share technonlogy.

Partial List of species:
The Kelvans
The Progenitors
The Sheliak
The Gorn
The Breen
The Talosians (from the Cage)
The First Federation (The big Sphere Ship from TOS)
The Cheronians (black on one side, white on the other guys from TOS)
The Hunters
The Kobali
The Sikarians
The Vaaduar
The Voth
The Caretaker
And Species 8472

Who wins?

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-09-13 07:27pm

How long do they have to build ships using the tech given to them?

Evil Jerk · Post by **Evil Jerk** » 2002-09-13 07:31pm

But the Cherons are all dead..

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-13 07:34pm

Hmm lets see

The Kelvans
The Progenitors
The Sheliak
The Gorn
The Breen
The Talosians (from the Cage)
The First Federation (The big Sphere Ship from TOS)
The Cheronians (black on one side, white on the other guys from TOS)
The Hunters
The Kobali
The Sikarians
The Vaaduar
The Voth
The Caretaker
And Species 8472

Hmm 1-8 Break like Twigs, Kobali and Hunters I don't know, The Voth means that they have to bring TWO ISD's Siarians, HA, The Care-taker also dies, 8472 kills the Fedderation for asking

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-09-13 07:35pm

whom all agree to support the UFP

Your fear of 8472 is showing Bean

Evil Jerk · Post by **Evil Jerk** » 2002-09-13 07:47pm

Who could possibly fear 8472?
They flee after taking a dozen casualties.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-09-13 07:52pm

I can understand you not watching Voyager but shouldnt you at least have some common sense - they switched to gathering intel on the feds because the Feds had an Uber weapon.

Evil Jerk · Post by **Evil Jerk** » 2002-09-13 07:56pm

TheDarkling wrote:I can understand you not watching Voyager but shouldnt you at least have some common sense - they switched to gathering intel on the feds because the Feds had an Uber weapon.

I know that, but it's silly.
They should've known that Voyager was the only one with the weapon (weren't they telepathic.. oh wait, the writers forgot about that) and destroyed it.

Plus.. assuming the worst, assuming that they thought the entire Federation had this uberweapon, why not just pop out near Earth with a force large enough to take casualties until they blow it to hell - end of problem.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-09-13 08:01pm

Their Psi abilities had severe limits - they didnt know about the Feds at all really so what they got out of Kes is unknown but it wasnt total and I dont think they got much from Voy's crew.

Poping out around earth wouldnt have helped since the Feds could still counter and possibly give the weapon to their Borg allies.

Evil Jerk · Post by **Evil Jerk** » 2002-09-13 08:05pm

Their Psi abilities had severe limits - they didnt know about the Feds at all really so what they got out of Kes is unknown but it wasnt total and I dont think they got much from Voy's crew.

Then how exactly were they able to recreate Starfleet Academy with every single detail from the buildings to the bridge to Boothby handing out flowers (my memory's hazy on this so I don't recall from what other source they got this info from and even so, any source with that much info should've told them that the Borg are not their friends and that their uberweapon isn't common place).

Poping out around earth wouldnt have helped since the Feds could still counter and possibly give the weapon to their Borg allies.

All the more reason to go after the Feddies sooner rather than later, and in all that time they spent studying the Federation, they never realised that it's nothing without Earth??

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-09-13 08:09pm

They had a SF databank (which we dont know where they got it from).

This was less than a year after the little War remember so they hadnt had time to study everything, they also state they think the database is full of lies thus they assume the Borg may be allies.

The feds could still win a war without Earth - Earth is over rated it would be mostly a morale thing.

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2002-09-13 08:11pm

Mr Bean wrote:Hmm lets see

The Kelvans
The Progenitors
The Sheliak
The Gorn
The Breen
The Talosians (from the Cage)
The First Federation (The big Sphere Ship from TOS)
The Cheronians (black on one side, white on the other guys from TOS)
The Hunters
The Kobali
The Sikarians
The Vaaduar
The Voth
The Caretaker
And Species 8472
Hmm 1-8 Break like Twigs, Kobali and Hunters I don't know, The Voth means that they have to bring TWO ISD's Siarians, HA, The Care-taker also dies, 8472 kills the Fedderation for asking

The kelvans are intergalactic beings capable of crossing the galaxies in under 300 years, and having a shield that can break through a galactic "barrier."

The talosians optical illusions could cause signifigant confusion aboard imperial ships, with the changing of headings, optical views, and sensor readouts.

The First Federation could help the Federation as their ship run by one person was enormus for star trek standards. And it took all the power and more than what the enterprise had to break away from it's SHUTTLE's tractor beam.

The two Cheronians are still alive persumably, and others could be infered to be the same. And their impressive, for the UFP, technology (or psi abilites) could help at least a little.

Level six Phaser fire did little but stun the Hunters, and they had their own personal shields.

And the Vaadwaur have the ability to travel at over twenty million times the speed of light.

and that's it for now, I'll be back though

Evil Jerk · Post by **Evil Jerk** » 2002-09-13 08:12pm

TheDarkling wrote:They had a SF databank (which we dont know where they got it from).

This was less than a year after the little War remember so they hadnt had time to study everything, they also state they think the database is full of lies thus they assume the Borg may be allies.

The problem with that is that if they thought it was full of lies, they'd be pretty stupid to use it as a basis for infilitration training.

The feds could still win a war without Earth - Earth is over rated it would be mostly a morale thing.

Office of the President, Federation Council, Starfleet Command, Starfleet Academy, San Francisco/McKinley Shipyards, Earth Starbase, residence of the Federation's top brass, birthplace of many of the Starfleet crews.
I'd say it'd be a devastating loss.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-09-13 08:13pm

I just have one question (not really taking part in the debate). Do the various ST races know that faliure means total annihilation? If so, would it not be logical to conclude that in such a situation, all forces allied with the Federation would fight to the death? That said, that would mean S8472 would not run after a few losses because such running invariably means death, but rather would lend their considerable firepower and take out as many enemies as possible before being destroyed in combat.

FYI, as I said earlier I am not going to take a direct stance on the ST vs SW debates, this is just me giving information to think about.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-13 08:13pm

The feds could still win a war without Earth - Earth is over rated it would be mostly a morale thing.

And they have two real ship-yards

One of which is in orbit around earth...

Sooooooo

1/2 your ship building capabilites is a pretty big loss

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-09-13 08:18pm

Mr Bean wrote:
The feds could still win a war without Earth - Earth is over rated it would be mostly a morale thing.
And they have two real ship-yards

One of which is in orbit around earth...

Sooooooo

1/2 your ship building capabilites is a pretty big loss

Incorrect. There is no TNG+ era evidence canon wise that there is construction facilities in Earth orbit. There is evidence of repair facilities, but nothing more. Utopia Plantia is in Mars orbit, though is relatively close to Earth. If the DS9 TM is taken at any level though, there is evidence that the Starbase in Earth Orbit constructs smaller ships, but that Antares has a large fleet yard, and that another starbase somewhere else in the Federation also builds ships.

Given the size of fleets we have seen and the assumed length of time it takes to build ships, 2 shipyards the size of Utopia Plantia are incapable of properly supporting more then 1000 ships. This is indirect canon evidence the Federation has more then 2 large shipyards.

Evil Jerk · Post by **Evil Jerk** » 2002-09-13 08:19pm

The kelvans are intergalactic beings capable of crossing the galaxies in under 300 years, and having a shield that can break through a galactic "barrier."

Also highly vunerable to deception, plus we never really know if they did come or not.

The talosians optical illusions could cause signifigant confusion aboard imperial ships, with the changing of headings, optical views, and sensor readouts.

Sith + Death Star around Talos IV = End of problem

The First Federation could help the Federation as their ship run by one person was enormus for star trek standards. And it took all the power and more than what the enterprise had to break away from it's SHUTTLE's tractor beam.

More powerful than the E-Nil, sure. More powerful than an ISD...

The two Cheronians are still alive persumably, and others could be infered to be the same. And their impressive, for the UFP, technology (or psi abilites) could help at least a little.

Last we saw of them they were fighting in the style that destroyed their people.
I'd say they're dead.

Level six Phaser fire did little but stun the Hunters, and they had their own personal shields.

Uh.. are these the guys who hunted Tosk? No big deal really.

And the Vaadwaur have the ability to travel at over twenty million times the speed of light.

On predefined tunnels, and all they have is 900 year old ships (which still kicked Voyagers ass though

)

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-09-13 08:20pm

During a DS9 episode a Romulan Senator says "You ar still rebuilding your shipyards" the dominion hadnt attacked earth at this pointso the Feds have more shipyards and since they had already lost some and it hadnt been crushing....

Lets not hijack the topic though.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-13 08:22pm

Indeed

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-09-13 08:22pm

TheDarkling wrote:During a DS9 episode a Romulan Senator says "You ar still rebuilding your shipyards" the dominion hadnt attacked earth at this pointso the Feds have more shipyards and since they had already lost some and it hadnt been crushing....

Lets not hijack the topic though.

I would conclude that the Federation was still in the process of going into a war footing to repair the damage that decades of peace had caused (I like that quote) and they were attempting to rebuild their shipyard capabilities to counter the Dominion so as to last a protracted war with the Dominion. The Federation never expected to win in just 2 years, it was the Founders surprise choice at pulling back the lines that allowed for such a victory (speaks volumes about Dominion tactical and strategic thinking).

Evil Jerk · Post by **Evil Jerk** » 2002-09-13 08:24pm

However many shipyards the Feds have, losing Earth's would still be a big loss I'd wager.
If Earth was blown up 8472 style, they probably could've nailed Utopia Planitia in the confusion..

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-09-13 08:25pm

So I will ask again how much lead time does the Federation have?

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-09-13 08:26pm

Evil Jerk wrote:However many shipyards the Feds have, losing Earth's would still be a big loss I'd wager.
If Earth was blown up 8472 style, they probably could've nailed Utopia Planitia in the confusion..

Undoubtably. I was just adressing the issue that the Federation does not have any canon known shipyards in orbit around Earth, and that the DS9 TM only pegs Earth as building and repair minor ships (Miranda, etc...)

Evil Jerk · Post by **Evil Jerk** » 2002-09-13 08:27pm

Alyeska wrote:
Evil Jerk wrote:However many shipyards the Feds have, losing Earth's would still be a big loss I'd wager.
If Earth was blown up 8472 style, they probably could've nailed Utopia Planitia in the confusion..
Undoubtably. I was just adressing the issue that the Federation does not have any canon known shipyards in orbit around Earth, and that the DS9 TM only pegs Earth as building and repair minor ships (Miranda, etc...)

What about McKinley Station/San Fran Shipyards?

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-09-13 08:27pm

Evil Jerk wrote:
Alyeska wrote:
Evil Jerk wrote:However many shipyards the Feds have, losing Earth's would still be a big loss I'd wager.
If Earth was blown up 8472 style, they probably could've nailed Utopia Planitia in the confusion..
Undoubtably. I was just adressing the issue that the Federation does not have any canon known shipyards in orbit around Earth, and that the DS9 TM only pegs Earth as building and repair minor ships (Miranda, etc...)
What about McKinley Station/San Fran Shipyards?

Last known ship to be built there was the Enterprise-A.