Moc Cal Vs. Borg

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2002-09-18 06:39pm

A damaged mon cal mc-80 jumps off, only to go into ::insert techno babble here:: and pops up right in front of a borg cube, now to make it more even the borg Queen (king) is Homer of Borg. What happens?

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-18 06:41pm

A single HTL shot is fired

Homer has just enough time for you will be DOH and the cube explodes

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2002-09-18 06:44pm

Alright, what I implied by damaged was no HTL one shot kills, and damaged shielding.

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » 2002-09-18 06:46pm

Mr Bean wrote:A single HTL shot is fired

Homer has just enough time for you will be DOH and the cube explodes

The HTL will be absorbed by the navagational deflectors on the cube. It will then fire it's lowest power weapon and obliterate the vesel, leaving nothing but penny sized debris behind.

Post by **AdmiralKanos** » 2002-09-18 06:51pm

Robert Walper wrote:The HTL will be absorbed by the navagational deflectors on the cube. It will then fire it's lowest power weapon and obliterate the vesel, leaving nothing but penny sized debris behind.

Please do not masturbate on my board.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-09-18 06:55pm

...that was twisted.

Evil Jerk · Post by **Evil Jerk** » 2002-09-18 07:05pm

Robert Walper wrote:
Mr Bean wrote:A single HTL shot is fired

Homer has just enough time for you will be DOH and the cube explodes
The HTL will be absorbed by the navagational deflectors on the cube. It will then fire it's lowest power weapon and obliterate the vesel, leaving nothing but penny sized debris behind.

*brandishes a steel pipe with jagged edges*

You better start running..
YOU BETTER START RUNNING!!

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-18 07:07pm

This is Ralph after all who dennies everything and feels like its his due to do just that

And in public....

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2002-09-18 07:07pm

AdmiralKanos wrote:
Robert Walper wrote:The HTL will be absorbed by the navagational deflectors on the cube. It will then fire it's lowest power weapon and obliterate the vesel, leaving nothing but penny sized debris behind.
Please do not masturbate on my board.

There's an image that'll ritualistically slay my libido.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-09-18 07:07pm

Out of curiosity, how badly damaged is the Mon Cal? Does it still have its fighters?

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2002-09-18 07:35pm

The moncal is down to 40% power, it has four X-wings, and one B-wing. It lost all its HTLs and shield power is at 52%max. It has a full command staff, 86% of the gunners, and so on. Oh and Hyperdrive is damaged so that it will take about three hours to get it up to jump standard, although sub light engines are just fine.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-09-18 07:42pm

A single torpedo spread from the X-Wings is enough to kill a Borg cube.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-18 07:43pm

Hmm 40%?

Mediums one Volly take down the Cube as the shields can hold it aginst the Cube for over five minutes

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-09-18 07:45pm

Straha wrote:The moncal is down to 40% power, it has four X-wings, and one B-wing. It lost all its HTLs and shield power is at 52%max. It has a full command staff, 86% of the gunners, and so on. Oh and Hyperdrive is damaged so that it will take about three hours to get it up to jump standard, although sub light engines are just fine.

A single broadside will still blow the cube into very small pieces..

Evil Jerk · Post by **Evil Jerk** » 2002-09-18 07:46pm

I wonder how badly a MonCal would have to be crippled for the Borg to actually win?

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-18 08:02pm

I think it would have to be pretty mangled

Hmm no Mediums.. No Heavys... Hmmm wait thats to many lights

No more than 10 LTL and no fighters
No shields

Maybe we should inculded no crew either?

seanrobertson · Post by **seanrobertson** » 2002-09-18 10:12pm

Mr Bean wrote:I think it would have to be pretty mangled

Hmm no Mediums.. No Heavys... Hmmm wait thats to many lights

No more than 10 LTL and no fighters
No shields

Maybe we should inculded no crew either?

Why couldn't a cube withstand 60 megatons? With all due respect,
some of you guys seem to make rather harsh statements as a sort
of "kneejerk" reaction to the standard Trekkie drivel. Don't be
like them in making broad overstatements...since we all know the
kind of power the Empire wields, it makes all us Wars fans come across
as bad winners so to speak.

Anyway...

A cube's shielding is probably at least an order of magnitude stronger
than Starfleet's best. (I think that's a fair assessment, given that a cube
can take on dozens of their ships at once.) The Enterprise-D could likely withstand around 100,000 terajoules of solar radiation, or 23 megatons, prior to shield failure ("Relics"). The cube should therefore withstand ~230 megatons or so before shields fail. Makes sense, if you subscribe to the notion that a photorp might go up to a megaton or few.

Another way to look at it: if a cube's shields were merely comparable to the E-D's on a square meter basis, with their 3.04 km sides, their frontal area would've absorbed 9.98 million terajoules had they started with full, fresh shielding. This is based on the same altitude of 150,000km, and a perhaps generous 25 MW/m^2. Some time ago, I came up with around 13 MW/m^2 (for a total of 5.2 exajoules) based on a lower estimate of the star's luminosity, but Michael's upper-limit is fine by me for just spitballing here. Either way, it gives the shields a range of endurance from just
over 1 gigaton to a little over 2.3.

There's also the fact that the deflector beam, which was supposed
to do "more damage than our phasers and photon torpedos could
ever provide," didn't even scratch a cube. The Borg were prepared
for the attack, yeah...but they *still* have to have shields strong
enough to field said attack.

If the E-D's shields were right at 100,000 terajoules, and it took
precisely 10 photorps to bring that to zero, each would have an
effective yield of 2.3 megatons. LaForge said the deflector beam
would discharge more energy than their torpedos could ever provide,
right? So it's probably discharging an energy greater than their
torpedo inventory (250). That's at least 575 megatons, which still did no
damage. (LaForge could've meant "provide" with a unit/time inherent
to his statement; i.e., the deflector beam has a power greater than
a full spread of torpedos. Then again, that makes no sense...
he said ever provide, not what they could dish out at once.
Additionally, all the Federation would need to equal this doomsday
weapon would be to send two GCS-level ships to launch full photorp
spreads! Well, there were plenty of capable capships at Wolf 359,
and they all obviously fell short of bettering on the E-D's one-shot
deal.)

All of these figures are very close to the same order of magnitude which, in itself, proves nothing; however, they are consistent enough to make one
question the conclusion that a cube's shields couldn't stand up to
at least a few dozen megatons (which is indicated by what, anyway?
The only thing I know of is the Borg scout ship which was blown up in
"Descent," but I have a few questions about that. Weakness to charged particles comes into play, for one thing, something that doesn't seem
to play a part in the current theory of turbolaser function(?)).

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-18 10:26pm

Just a note Sean, We standeised to Tonnage awhile back as it makes easier for everyone to understand when once goes from Joules to Tons to Joules agian and agian in a thread
We use Tons because it works out to nice pretty numbers

Why couldn't a cube withstand 60 megatons?

We that is roughly a full broad-side from the LTL's the shielding on MC-80s even at 40% is good agisnt Cubes due to thier terribly slow firing rate compared with the 1 sec shot/recharge time on LTLs

And thats just LTLs, Straha removed all HTLs because even the guns off a Transport from 20 Years ago would be 1-shot kill weapons VS Cubes

Personal Estamtes of Borg Shielding strenght peg it at 2.2 Giga-tons at the high end per cube and its what I've been using for awhile now(As its two to three times higher than the avarage Treky estmate) its rarly challenged and normaly people say its lower

Anyway the current scalling of the Medium Range of SW ships places LTLs at 10 Mega-tons, Mediums as they are basicly guns off the old Transports at 250 Giga-tons(Optimization and improvement over twenty years its likley) with the HTL's at 5 Tera-tons

But besides all that lemme share this

A ISD and MC-80 are equal in most areas though Speed Goes to ISD while MC-80s have a definate edge(1.2X better) than ISDs in shielding

ABOUSTLY COMPLETLY LOW END Estmates of ISD shield strenth places it at 30,000 Giga-tons

Now then if the MC-80 is at 1.2x more or 36,000 take that off by the 40% Straha mentions means 14,400 Giga-tons to take down the MC-80s shields...

Now then Cubes wielding based on how fast they where womping down on the Wolf 359 Ships rougly 100-280 Mega-ton Weaponry, fireable every two seconds and only at one target

We be far and say 280 mega-tons means we convert Giga-tons into megatons and dived
14,400,000/280=51,428 Shots to bring down the MC-80s shields
TIME to take down shield assuming 2 Second firing rate
51,428x2=102,865 seconds or /60=1714 mintues /60=28.5 Hours....

And we relise yet agian this is like trying to make a Empire VS Culture fight fair

You just can't do it fokes

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2002-09-19 12:42am

The sheer number of guns the MC-80 has, plus the B-wing heavy assault fighter (read, anti-capship) means instant death for the cube.

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » 2002-09-19 04:15am

Undoubtably, my calculations of Borg cube shielding being a lower limit of 42.88 to 85.76 gigatons would never be taken seriously here. *shrugs* Oh well...

omegaLancer · Post by **omegaLancer** » 2002-09-19 04:47am

So you are saying that the borg shield would only require a single blast by a medium turbo laser to draw the shield and tear a huge chew out of the Cube... I can agree with it..

But how did you come up with the figure..

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-19 07:44am

Undoubtably, my calculations of Borg cube shielding being a lower limit of 42.88 to 85.76 gigatons would never be taken seriously here. *shrugs* Oh well...

Considering we know the number of Q-Torps to take down a Borg Shielding and considering we know the strength of Q torps of course yout 42 Gigs is not going to be accepted because frankly its nearly as masterbational as that guy who thinks TIE Lasers are 40 Watts

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » 2002-09-19 06:41pm

Mr Bean wrote:Considering we know the number of Q-Torps to take down a Borg Shielding

Alright, how many and your source of information?

and considering we know the strength of Q torps

Alright, what is their yield?

of course yout 42 Gigs is not going to be accepted because frankly its nearly as masterbational as that guy who thinks TIE Lasers are 40 Watts

I eagerly await your evidence.

seanrobertson · Post by **seanrobertson** » 2002-09-20 03:31pm

Mr Bean wrote:
Undoubtably, my calculations of Borg cube shielding being a lower limit of 42.88 to 85.76 gigatons would never be taken seriously here. *shrugs* Oh well...
Considering we know the number of Q-Torps to take down a Borg Shielding and considering we know the strength of Q torps of course yout 42 Gigs is not going to be accepted because frankly its nearly as masterbational as that guy who thinks TIE Lasers are 40 Watts

Ahoy Bean.

I still don't get where that guy came up with 40W TIE guns. Didn't
he pretend that the Star Wars galaxy was a few meters wide, and
everything within was some sort of pocket dimension?

Anyway...

I'm with Robert. I know of no source that shows how many quantum torpedos are required to take down a Borg ship's shields. We saw four quantorps blow up the Queen's escape/timeship in "FC," but they appeared
to hit the hull directly. The E-E was without shields herself at the
time, so the sphere might not've had any up either.

The only indication I know is purely speculative, and that's based
on Defiant. The little D was exclusively firing phasers at
the cube by the time the E-E arrived on the scene, which may (or
may not) indicate she'd exhausted her torpedo supply. Circa
the end of DS9, Worf said 45 quantorps wasn't a lot:

"Phasers are fully charged, but we are down to only 45 quantum
torpedos."

I have no idea how many torpedos D does carry, but if my guess--and
I reiterate, it's purely a *guess*--is correct, the cube's shields can
handle a lower-limit of 45 quantum torpedos over the course of
several hours. I'd further guess that, given Worf's choice of words,
45 is less than half of the D's full complement. 100-120 qtorps
sounds about right for a ship of her size and purpose.

Also, though quantorps are obviously not orders of magnitude more
powerful than photorps (and that's what's really relevant), we actually
don't know how much better they are for certain. The TMs indicate
a yield ~3x greater (18.5 vs. 50+ isotons), but then again, the TMs
are generally considered invalid for these discussions.

All we really know is what Quark says in "Little Green Men," noting
that qtorps are "more expensive, but worth it!"

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-20 08:12pm

Sorry for the Delay but I was gone for a day

I have no idea how many torpedos D does carry, but if my guess--and
I reiterate, it's purely a *guess*--is correct, the cube's shields can
handle a lower-limit of 45 quantum torpedos over the course of
several hours. I'd further guess that, given Worf's choice of words,
45 is less than half of the D's full complement. 100-120 qtorps
sounds about right for a ship of her size and purpose.

You don't of course count in shield recharge rates/rotation as its been shown Cubes do when facing an attacker is rotate the ship to present the target with a fresh set of shields explaning why they can take so much damage as they do,

I'll update with more later but its been a late night I'll get to Ralphs post later

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Moc Cal Vs. Borg

Moc Cal Vs. Borg

So it would take less than one hit