What if Mike Wong is a Trekkie?

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

Note that this is not a flame bait and meant to be serious discussion. Now point those guns elsewhere, somebody might get hurt

Suppose Mike is on Trek side, and he is still the Mike we knew; always debate rationally, and using solid evidence, reasonable assumption, and the most logical approach (IMHO, this is the reason why he always win. OTOH, the easiest way to lose a debate is to lie, use false assumption, ignore evidence, and discard logic, ala DarkStar).

So can he help the Trek side?

Considering there's plenty of evidence that Wars tech is more advanced than Trek, to what extent Mike can help the Trek side?

[NecronLord]

He would probably start off with logical things such as V'jur wersus imperial fleets and so on, I can not imagine him trying that GCS vs STD bull.

[septesix]

Note that this is not a flame bait and meant to be serious discussion. Now point those guns elsewhere, somebody might get hurt

Suppose Mike is on Trek side, and he is still the Mike we knew; always debate rationally, and using solid evidence, reasonable assumption, and the most logical approach (IMHO, this is the reason why he always win. OTOH, the easiest way to lose a debate is to lie, use false assumption, ignore evidence, and discard logic, ala DarkStar).

So can he help the Trek side?

Considering there's plenty of evidence that Wars tech is more advanced than Trek, to what extent Mike can help the Trek side?

Nothing at all?

I mean, I don't like Wars winning or Trek losing. But come on, how do you refute a 200GT number that are in print!

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

To be honest this is my first discussion board and I've never join ASVS nor SB before. So I wonder if there's any equivalent of Mike on the Trek side.

[weemadando]

*shoves hand into air* Oh! I know! I know!

Its Graham Kennedy isn't it! *ducks and scrambles into asbestos flame-suit*

[Enlightenment]

To be honest this is my first discussion board and I've never join ASVS nor SB before. So I wonder if there's any equivalent of Mike on the Trek side.

There isn't. The Trekkie position is simply indefensable in the face of the quantity of canon evidence in Star Wars' favor. Even ignoring things like the 200GT ICS-enhanced turbolasers, a matchup between the UFP and the Empire is fundamentally a matchup between a power that controls--at most--a quarter of a galaxy and a power that controls damn near an entire galaxy. The UFP is outnumbered by at least 4:1 even ignoring Wars' weaponry advantages. No one with half a clue would even try to argue Trek's superiority given the facts on the ground.

[SPOOFE]

that GCS vs STD bull.

Galaxy-Class Ship versus Sexually-Transmitted Disease?

[consequences]

Galaxy-Class Ship versus Sexually-Transmitted Disease?

If the disease is gonorhea, then the GCS will survive as long as it has one named character on board, if the disease is anything stronger the GCS dies, and god help us all if it is attacked by Space Herpes.

[NecronLord]

ISD then

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

Still, I wonder:
- Is it possible to defend Star Trek, at least in some particular topics, while still clinging to facts, logic and rational debate, without resorting to laughable theories and moronic debating style like DarkStar?
- If there's any equivalent of Mike on Trek side, what's the best he can do to help them?

I think if Mike on Trek side, the best he can do is refuting unsupported pro-Wars arguments (if exist), and humiliating irrational pro-Wars debaters (if exist).

Note that this is assuming that unsupported pro-Wars arguments exist, as well as irrational pro-Wars debaters. So far I have seen none, but again, this is my first discussion board experience so maybe I haven't seen much.

[Mr Bean]

- Is it possible to defend Star Trek, at least in some particular topics , while still clinging to facts, logic and rational debate, without resorting to laughable theories and moronic debating style like DarkStar?

Possible ST Strengths

Transec Torps

Subspace Transporters

....

- If there's any equivalent of Mike on Trek side, what's the best he can do to help them?

The closest thing there ever was to that was a sort of Mini Mike who hants these boards for the Warsie side, Darkling

I think if Mike on Trek side, the best he can do is refuting unsupported pro-Wars arguments (if exist), and humiliating irrational pro-Wars debaters (if exist).

There are few of the first and none of the second because the Warsie side knows few rules but the first is

Lieing is bad, BSing is worse

Few Darkstar like SW debator last long because Warsies quickly turn on them
We value logic and reasoning above all

*Edit 3500 Posts! Time for a change of Avatar

[EmperorMing]

If Mike was pro-trekkie, we would at least see *reasonable* points brought up and backed up with evidence. And it would actually be constructive...

Of course, I'm sure he could actually come up with some interesting things for trek (like tactics?) even with the current state of the board.

[Stravo]

Actually I find that ST medical technology is probably better than Wars. They have cloning of limbs and regeneration devices that heal a broken arm in a matter of a minute. You don't see people walking around with artificial hands, or out and out cyborgs like Vader. Luke would have gotten a nice real hand again.

Of course there is Picard's artificial heart, but perhaps certain organs are too complicated or delicate to clone. Think about it though, PIcard gets a knife right through the heart and doesn't die...he gets a heart and lives. What kind of med tech would you call that?

McCoy gives an old lady a pill that REGROWS HER KIDNEY in a matter of minutes in ST: V. I just happen to think that if there's anything the trekkies can point to where Wars does not have a distinct advantage its in the medical technology.

[Ender]

If mike were a trekkie, this would be unamatrixzero.net, because the Borg are the only ones who have half a chance for resisting the Empire (Pre-ICS)

Now even they are screwed.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

It was ST IV, and McCoy's pills cured her kidney dialysis (sp?).

[Mr Bean]

Of course there is Picard's artificial heart, but perhaps certain organs are too complicated or delicate to clone. Think about it though, PIcard gets a knife right through the heart and doesn't die...he gets a heart and lives. What kind of med tech would you call that?

Acutal Warsy medical tecnology also incudles cloning of limbs/organs but its highly illegale as is all cloning tech and we have sources from EU that Bacta(Top grade that is) can completly heal broken ribs, rupuruted organs and a cracked back in sixteen hours(Bacta War) and its highly useful aginst a TON of disesease though even then its debatable as if the stuff we see Bones and Doctor using are so common place it does give ST an advantage

[Slartibartfast]

Dialisis (sp?) isn't a disease, it's a medical procedure. Basically it means that you don't have a good kidney to filter your blood (urine acid or whatever builds up on every human). So they hook you to a machine every few days to do it for you. (sort of sucking out your blood, cleaning it and putting it back, not all at once of course)

So the pill does grow the kidney back. It's backed up by dialogue: "that man gave me a pill and I grew a new kidney!"

New kidney = no more dialysis.

Yes it was Star Blecch IV: The Voyage Bombs

"Save the whales, so they can save us later!"

Sorry, I'm reading my 25th anniversary Trek MAD magazine

[NecronLord]

Yeah but if we want to argue medical technology then stargate comes out on top. bringing people back from the dead is even more impressive than the kidney pill.

[Darth Wong]

Actually, by the definitions used in the general population (ie- outside "vs" discussions), I am a Trekkie.

Confused? Think about it: so are most of you. How many Trek episodes have you watched? How much Trek trivia do you know? How many of you can easily rattle off the number of ships in the fleet in TDiC (or for that matter, what TDiC stands for)? How many of you know the names of all the principal characters in TOS, TNG, DS9, and Voyager? How many of you can recite lines of dialogue verbatim?

If, on the other hand, you mean "what if Darth Wong argued for Trek superiority", that would be like asking what I would be like if I were a fundie Christian. I wouldn't be me. It is impossible for a rational person to look at ST and think that from a military perspective, they hold a candle to SW. If I wanted to argue for ST in some way, it would have to be strictly on the basis of consumer products such as "dermal regenerators" (useless for serious combat wounds but good for cosmetic surgery) and other flashy toys like holodecks.

[Master of Ossus]

I really don't see how Mike could be a Trekkie in your sense of the word. He would, under almost any circumstances, recognize that the Empire would crush the Federation and then move from there. I don't think it would be possible to confuse him so utterly that he would fall for the traps that the Rabid Trekkies here fall into so often.

[Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi]

Note that this is not a flame bait and meant to be serious discussion. Now point those guns elsewhere, somebody might get hurt

Suppose Mike is on Trek side, and he is still the Mike we knew; always debate rationally, and using solid evidence, reasonable assumption, and the most logical approach (IMHO, this is the reason why he always win. OTOH, the easiest way to lose a debate is to lie, use false assumption, ignore evidence, and discard logic, ala DarkStar).

So can he help the Trek side?

Considering there's plenty of evidence that Wars tech is more advanced than Trek, to what extent Mike can help the Trek side?

Well, he'd try to debate rationally, and soon, admit SW would win, making him a Warsie... It's kind of a trick question.

[Howedar]

Actually, by the definitions used in the general population (ie- outside "vs" discussions), I am a Trekkie.

Confused? Think about it: so are most of you. How many Trek episodes have you watched? How much Trek trivia do you know? How many of you can easily rattle off the number of ships in the fleet in TDiC (or for that matter, what TDiC stands for)? How many of you know the names of all the principal characters in TOS, TNG, DS9, and Voyager? How many of you can recite lines of dialogue verbatim?

What an utterly disgustingp/i] thought...

[Bob McDob]

that GCS vs STD bull.

Galaxy-Class Ship versus Sexually-Transmitted Disease?

I love how X-Wing calls them that.

[OT: during my FRED days I'd slap names like "Sodomy and Gonorrhea" on ships for lack of better ideas . . . I don't know why I brought it up . . .]

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

Actually, by the definitions used in the general population (ie- outside "vs" discussions), I am a Trekkie.

Confused? Think about it: so are most of you. How many Trek episodes have you watched? How much Trek trivia do you know? How many of you can easily rattle off the number of ships in the fleet in TDiC (or for that matter, what TDiC stands for)? How many of you know the names of all the principal characters in TOS, TNG, DS9, and Voyager? How many of you can recite lines of dialogue verbatim?

Hmm, so by that definition, I may be a Trekkie too, at least to some degree.

..................................................................................................... (pausing for a moment)


Hey, waidda minute. Me? A Trekkie?

YAAAARRGGGHHH!!!!!!! NOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!

::screaming in agony::

If, on the other hand, you mean "what if Darth Wong argued for Trek superiority", that would be like asking what I would be like if I were a fundie Christian. I wouldn't be me. It is impossible for a rational person to look at ST and think that from a military perspective, they hold a candle to SW.

Hm.... that answered my curiousity; "is there any equivalent of Mike in Trek side?"

I think a rational and knowldegeable debater cannot do much if he/she is defending Trek side *WHILE* still maintaining a honest, rational debate. Like I said, the most he/she can do is to refute unsupported pro-Wars argument like "a single TIE fighter can decimate entire UPF Fleet" (note that this is hypothetically speaking, since I've never seen one).

If I wanted to argue for ST in some way, it would have to be strictly on the basis of consumer products such as "dermal regenerators" (useless for serious combat wounds but good for cosmetic surgery) and other flashy toys like holodecks.

I always wonder if there are some room to defend Trek side while still maintaining rational debate, and without resorting to DarkStar-alike stupidity. I guess there's not much.

Aside from consumer products basis, is there other contexts where one can defend Trek rationally?

How about medical tech? Just curious....

But hey, waidda minute, I think it may deserve another thread...

[Vertigo1]

I am a Trekkie.

Excuse me for a second.....