Star Wars/Star Trek Canon and Official Sources

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2003-11-14 12:41am

Just updated an old page on my website:

http://h4h.com/louis/sources.html

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-11-14 12:43am

I wonder how many days till Scoot must...retort(still love his pathetic attempt at you Trekmiss)

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-11-14 02:42am

Wayne, you might want to look into updating that yet again based off the shit getting thrown around by Sovereign, Virus-X, and Warsie Killer

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-11-14 04:32am

Wayne, this is an absolutely superb article. If I may say so, I believe it to be your finest work ever. I'm eagerly awaiting Scooter's inevitable reply, although I don't know if he'll respond to this or to Cyborg Stan's DEMOLISHING his Alderaan "no shield" bullshit, first.

Lord of the Farce · Post by **Lord of the Farce** » 2003-11-14 05:10am

Ender wrote:Wayne, you might want to look into updating that yet again based off the shit getting thrown around by Sovereign, Virus-X, and Warsie Killer

Don't you just love how those rabid Trekkies always seem to try to apply Lucasfilm canon policy to Star Trek materials, while at the same time trying to apply Paramount canon policy to Star Wars material?

... And this warsie killer guy, this wouldn't happen to be Mike Brown, aka "has a sister who works for Lucasart/ILM/Lucasfilm/Paramount", aka future "British Aarow (sic) space" employee, aka "throw a few off-the-cuff insult at me, and I will reply with open personal/death threats", would it?

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2003-11-14 10:59am

Ender wrote:Wayne, you might want to look into updating that yet again based off the shit getting thrown around by Sovereign, Virus-X, and Warsie Killer

Which part? They are saying that the TMs, ST:The Magazine (now defunct), and just about any Trek book is canon, despite what Paramount's official policy is. If they want to ignore official policy, why would anyone take them seriously?

BTW, this "Warsie Killer" is obviously a take off of my old spacebattles ID "Trekkiemorder", except I wasn't illiterate.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2003-11-14 11:04am

Master of Ossus wrote:Wayne, this is an absolutely superb article. If I may say so, I believe it to be your finest work ever. I'm eagerly awaiting Scooter's inevitable reply, although I don't know if he'll respond to this or to Cyborg Stan's DEMOLISHING his Alderaan "no shield" bullshit, first.

Won't that come after he answers your mysterious chain reaction challenge?

Thanks for the compliments. I thanked everyone at the bottom whom I excerpted (excerpted?? what kind of word is that??) for the article. There are so many gems spread in so many multipage forums that unfortunately get forgotten and lost. BTW, would Ubiqtorate and Plubius be one and the same person?

Rightous Fist Of Heaven · Post by **Rightous Fist Of Heaven** » 2003-11-14 11:10am

An excellent article Wayne, i think it pretty much contains every tidbit of information to know what is canon on both franchises and what's not. Good thing that i have now a very good article to shov down the throat of trekkies whining about the canon policy.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-11-14 11:43am

Come on folks, we already KNOW how TRoll Super LunAtic will respond. He'll ust repeat his brainless insistance that the EU is a paralel universe, the Films are the only "real story of Star Wars", Alderaan doesn't have a planetary shield, etc all over again.

Poe's canon article wrote:Interestingly, Darkstar's entire Star Wars worldview hinges on his fanciful interpretation of canon, as he indicates here which he unwittingly admits that without his canon policy he's constructed, every one of his arguments are without validity. Something many already know anyway, but I digress...

Actually, his arguments are without validity even WITH his screwed up canon policy.

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2003-11-14 02:58pm

Oh, we all know that, but having it up on the page like that makes it even more harsh to the Trekkies that worship Darkstar. Darkstar basically going 'this is from my point of view only' to most of those Trekkie Darkstar worshippers would be like a creationist hearing 'god' go 'off course, the bible is just somene's slanted view of history'

Question Wayne: Why didn't you include a more detailed 'Blame paramount for the stuff outside the shows/movies not being cannon', including examples of works that are as good, if not better, then the episodes (i.e the FASA ship guides, the Dictionary, etc)

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2003-11-14 05:09pm

Solauren wrote:Question Wayne: Why didn't you include a more detailed 'Blame paramount for the stuff outside the shows/movies not being cannon', including examples of works that are as good, if not better, then the episodes (i.e the FASA ship guides, the Dictionary, etc)

Truthfully, there's too much stuff that would great to include in the canon, and I haven't read it. For example, everyone says the "Khan" books shore up a lot of continuity problems. And I have no experience with the FASA stuff. I played a boxed FASA game when I was a kid, but that was a LONG time ago!

If you look back to a few old posts of mine on ASVS, I actually used to propose that fans make up their own trek canon, since Paramount didn't care. I was even teaming up with Lord Edam about this, and we had a little mailing list with a few Trekkies, to try to come up with a proposition to present to ASVS. Unfortunately, we put RSA on the list (Guardian 2000 aat the time) and he posted the letter on ASVS claiming it was a Warsie conspiracy!!!

Publius · Post by **Publius** » 2003-11-14 05:43pm

Lord Poe wrote:BTW, would Ubiqtorate and Plubius be one and the same person?

Assuming, of course, that the Ubiqtorate existed? The right honourable Member might be pardoned for thinking so.

PUBLIUS

P.S. -- Incidentally, shouldn't the acknowledgements say "The Ubiqtorate and his or her original article"?

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2003-11-14 05:50pm

Publius wrote:Assuming, of course, that the Ubiqtorate existed? The right honourable Member might be pardoned for thinking so.

Thanks!

P.S. -- Incidentally, shouldn't the acknowledgements say "The Ubiqtorate and his or her original article"?

That oversight has been fixed. BTW, I couldn't find the ST:TMP canon thread you had that was stickied for a while. I found your comments that I used on another post of yours. Do you have the link for it?

Publius · Post by **Publius** » 2003-11-14 06:12pm

Presumably you used the quotes from this thread. The original thread can be found here (the first post includes links to two previous discussions regarding the implications of Admiral Kirk's Preface).

Incidentally, the following quote would be an excellent companion to the Episode III webcam image:

As Richard [Chasemore] and Hans [Jenssen] got into the Star Wars universe, they became more comfortable creating new elements. Richard produced the cross-section of Slave I almost entirely on his own, for example. By the time of the Episode I book, I was contributing mainly conceptual guidance and occasional details on ship layouts. It’s a testament to the Star Wars sensibility that Hans and Richard developed that their work eventually was referenced by the Production Art Department and ILM. During the Episode II Cross-Sections book project, Richard asked concept design supervisor Doug Chiang about the weapon systems on Episode II's Slave I. Doug told him, "You should know, you put them there." ILM had followed Richard's illustration in creating the digital Slave I.

-- Dr. David West-Reynolds, "Vision Quest", Star Wars Insider #68, p. 43

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-11-14 06:37pm

Lord Poe wrote:
Solauren wrote:Question Wayne: Why didn't you include a more detailed 'Blame paramount for the stuff outside the shows/movies not being cannon', including examples of works that are as good, if not better, then the episodes (i.e the FASA ship guides, the Dictionary, etc)
Truthfully, there's too much stuff that would great to include in the canon, and I haven't read it. For example, everyone says the "Khan" books shore up a lot of continuity problems. And I have no experience with the FASA stuff. I played a boxed FASA game when I was a kid, but that was a LONG time ago!

If you look back to a few old posts of mine on ASVS, I actually used to propose that fans make up their own trek canon, since Paramount didn't care. I was even teaming up with Lord Edam about this, and we had a little mailing list with a few Trekkies, to try to come up with a proposition to present to ASVS. Unfortunately, we put RSA on the list (Guardian 2000 aat the time) and he posted the letter on ASVS claiming it was a Warsie conspiracy!!!

Link to that? And it would be a nice addition to your dipshit page, that according to him a trekkie was part of a warsie conspiacy.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-11-14 07:32pm

Wayne, that kicked ass.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2003-11-14 07:56pm

Publius wrote:Presumably you used the quotes from this thread. The original thread can be found here (the first post includes links to two previous discussions regarding the implications of Admiral Kirk's Preface).

Thanks. Do you have a website, BTW? THings like the above shouldn't be lost in the shuffle.

Incidentally, the following quote would be an excellent companion to the Episode III webcam image:

As Richard [Chasemore] and Hans [Jenssen] got into the Star Wars universe, they became more comfortable creating new elements. Richard produced the cross-section of Slave I almost entirely on his own, for example. By the time of the Episode I book, I was contributing mainly conceptual guidance and occasional details on ship layouts. It’s a testament to the Star Wars sensibility that Hans and Richard developed that their work eventually was referenced by the Production Art Department and ILM. During the Episode II Cross-Sections book project, Richard asked concept design supervisor Doug Chiang about the weapon systems on Episode II's Slave I. Doug told him, "You should know, you put them there." ILM had followed Richard's illustration in creating the digital Slave I.
-- Dr. David West-Reynolds, "Vision Quest", Star Wars Insider #68, p. 43

Wow, how did I miss that? Thanks, Publius!

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2003-11-14 09:07pm

BTW gents, I took down the webcam image from Episode 3. starwars.com makes it clear that no webcam images can be used anywhere else. The link to the webcam replaces it, as well as information for Hyperspace members on how to find the image.

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2003-11-14 09:33pm

Is Warsie Killer stupid, or retarded?

Publius · Post by **Publius** » 2003-11-14 10:18pm

Lord Poe wrote:Thanks. Do you have a website, BTW? THings like the above shouldn't be lost in the shuffle.

At this point, the answer may begin to sound like a litany: no, such a website does not exist.

PUBLIUS

Lord of the Farce · Post by **Lord of the Farce** » 2003-11-14 10:43pm

Iceberg wrote:Is Warsie Killer stupid, or retarded?

He's (apparently) got dyslexia, though that hardly excuse his ability (or more accurately, the lack thereof) to comprehend simple logical and scientific concepts.

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2003-11-16 05:37pm

Mr. Poe, that was indeed an excellent, well-written, well-researched article.

Unfortunately, Mr. Anderson will, in my estimation, simply respond by saying something like "I've demolished this argument a million times already"... of course, his demolition will have been written in disappearing ink, because nobody - not even his own ball-licking lackeys - will be able to find such a demolition...

Joe Momma · Post by **Joe Momma** » 2003-11-16 10:34pm

Just a possible minor correction:

Lord Poe wrote:Then there are times when the Expanded Universe contradicts itself. Early on, before 1987, continuity in the EU was as tightly controlled as it is now.

Should that second sentence read "continuity...was not as tightly controlled..."?

-- Joe Momma

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2003-11-16 10:48pm

Joe Momma wrote:Just a possible minor correction:

Lord Poe wrote:Then there are times when the Expanded Universe contradicts itself. Early on, before 1987, continuity in the EU was as tightly controlled as it is now.
Should that second sentence read "continuity...was not as tightly controlled..."?

-- Joe Momma

Ack. You're right. Fixed!

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2003-11-16 10:50pm

SPOOFE wrote:Mr. Poe, that was indeed an excellent, well-written, well-researched article.

Thanks! How's your poor ailing mother, BTW?

Unfortunately, Mr. Anderson will, in my estimation, simply respond by saying something like "I've demolished this argument a million times already"... of course, his demolition will have been written in disappearing ink, because nobody - not even his own ball-licking lackeys - will be able to find such a demolition...

Its so much fun watching him swirl down the toilet bowl of life!