death star and other objects

[Shrykull]

Just wondering how the death star would fare destroying objects other than telestrial planets, like neutron stars, gas giants (I remember reading something Saxton wrote about it, if fired at Yavin (the gas giant)). Or the Dyson sphere. What if the feds moved all the forces into the sphere to hide from it, and could lock the door so they couldn't get in? Would a galaxy gun shot damage the sphere? Or could a world devastator start tearing it apart?

[HRogge]

Neutron star:
Escape velocity of the sun at the surface: 618 km/s
Mass of the sun: 2E30 kg
=> KE(blow up sun) = 1/2 * 2E30 * 6.18E5^2 = 4E41 Joule
too massive to be blown up by the Death Star.

Gas Giant:
Can be blown up by a Death Star shot, but it will take some time to scatter the mass.

Dyson Sphere:
Can be blown up by the Death Star ( much less massive than the central star ), but it's difficult to transfer the energy into it. Multiple DS2 tactical blasts might be better ( blow holes into the structure so that it collaplse by it's own weight ).

[Shrykull]

Neutron star:
Escape velocity of the sun at the surface: 618 km/s
Mass of the sun: 2E30 kg
=> KE(blow up sun) = 1/2 * 2E30 * 6.18E5^2 = 4E41 Joule
too massive to be blown up by the Death Star.

I remember Michael January (maybe he has another name here on these boards) an old asvs regular, was saying that neutronium could be damaged by 20th century nukes, don't know where he got this from however.


Gas Giant:
Can be blown up by a Death Star shot, but it will take some time to scatter the mass.

Dyson Sphere:
Can be blown up by the Death Star ( much less massive than the central star ), but it's difficult to transfer the energy into it. Multiple DS2 tactical blasts might be better ( blow holes into the structure so that it collaplse by it's own weight ).

[Tribun]

A neutron star got to high gravity, there wont be an effect.

A gas giant can be blown apart, Saxton proved this with his calculations, but it would take more time, assuming, that what the DS did to Alderaan was a max. power shot. (If not, the DS-capacity is even greater, and a gas giant would be less a problem)

The Dyson sphere is screwed with all three options.
-The DS could simply blow holes in it until it collapes into itself or shoot into the star so that massive sunflares brun it out from within.
-The Galaxy gun projectiles feed from the mass of the target for a chain reaction. I can imagine, that the Sphere got enough materials for the chain reaction.
-The World Devastator needs months to consume an entire Planet. But when several of them swarm over the sphere and rip dozends of extremly long rips in it, it will collapse too.....

[Ender]

Neutron star:
Escape velocity of the sun at the surface: 618 km/s
Mass of the sun: 2E30 kg
=> KE(blow up sun) = 1/2 * 2E30 * 6.18E5^2 = 4E41 Joule
too massive to be blown up by the Death Star.

Actually, it might not be. the 38 thing is the kinetic energy of the remains, not the thermal energy input, whcih would be much greater, and the Death Star technical journal says it was capable of vaporizing planets.

Course aiming ofr higher numbers like that at this point is pure overkill, but still...

It could atleas blast a good chunk out of it.

[Elim Garak]

Neutron star:
Escape velocity of the sun at the surface: 618 km/s
Mass of the sun: 2E30 kg
=> KE(blow up sun) = 1/2 * 2E30 * 6.18E5^2 = 4E41 Joule
too massive to be blown up by the Death Star.

Actually, it might not be. the 38 thing is the kinetic energy of the remains, not the thermal energy input, whcih would be much greater, and the Death Star technical journal says it was capable of vaporizing planets.

Course aiming ofr higher numbers like that at this point is pure overkill, but still...

It could atleas blast a good chunk out of it.

Oh, come on what isn't an overkill?!?!? Next you will be saying that the DS could vaporize the entire galaxy based on some scribblings on a bathroom wall at an SW convention!

I am pretty sure that the DS won't even be able to approach a neutron star close enough for a shot. Even if it did, the energy would most likely be absorbed by the material - pure really-real neutronium, remember? Liquid, in fact.

Though I would be very interested in seeing what the beam would do in such a strong magnetic field.

[Howedar]

Why would the Death Star not be able to approach closely to a neutron star? It is no more massive than a main sequence star that is still burning. The mass is more compressed, but this makes essentially no difference to the gravity away from the object.

[Howedar]

Actually, scratch the "essentially". It makes zero difference.

[Elim Garak]

Why would the Death Star not be able to approach closely to a neutron star? It is no more massive than a main sequence star that is still burning. The mass is more compressed, but this makes essentially no difference to the gravity away from the object.

Well, first of all presumably it would need to get within 6-10 planetary diameters for an optimal shot. It woud be difficult to get out then.

Second, because of the enormous magnetic field around neutron stars. It would scramble all of its systems immediately, at an enormous distance.

Furthermore, if the neutron star is rotating, then it is a pulsar, emitting radiation that we can clearly detect over hundreds of light-years. What do you think it would do to a hunk of junk like that? I suspect that even people hiding at the core would get a lethal dose if the DS wonders into the path of a beam.

[Howedar]

Well, first of all presumably it would need to get within 6-10 planetary diameters for an optimal shot. It woud be difficult to get out then.

Assertion without evidence. Given a Sol-mass neutron star (although a real one would be somewhat more massive) at 10 Earth diameters, acceleration on a body would be some 8156 m/s^2. This is less than a fifth of a Jedi fighter's stated acceleration of 5000g's (if memory serves). It may well be within the DS's capabilities to accelerate at 8km/s^2. Next time, run numbers before you run off your mouth.

Of course, failing that the Death Star could just slingshot around the neutron star, which would require zero acceleration.

Second, because of the enormous magnetic field around neutron stars. It would scramble all of its systems immediately, at an enormous distance.

Assertion without evidence. We know that SW equipment is physically shielded against EM radiation and such, and we know that the Death Star is shielded.

Furthermore, if the neutron star is rotating, then it is a pulsar, emitting radiation that we can clearly detect over hundreds of light-years. What do you think it would do to a hunk of junk like that? I suspect that even people hiding at the core would get a lethal dose if the DS wonders into the path of a beam.

I can clearly detect the radiation of a star from hundreds of light years away with my naked eye. I could clearly detect a vastly smaller light source from hundreds of light years away if I were using even rudamentary astronomy equipment. Without numbers, your claim falls short.

[HRogge]

Neutron star:
Escape velocity of the sun at the surface: 618 km/s
Mass of the sun: 2E30 kg
=> KE(blow up sun) = 1/2 * 2E30 * 6.18E5^2 = 4E41 Joule
too massive to be blown up by the Death Star.

Actually, it might not be. the 38 thing is the kinetic energy of the remains, not the thermal energy input, whcih would be much greater, and the Death Star technical journal says it was capable of vaporizing planets.

Wong calculated the DS energy between 2.2E32 and 1E38 Joule... so the DS has 1/1000 of the necessary energy to blow up a neutron star with the mass of our sun.
The energy to vaporize a planet is MUCH smaller, it doesn't matter at all for this kind of calculation.

[Elim Garak]

Well, first of all presumably it would need to get within 6-10 planetary diameters for an optimal shot. It woud be difficult to get out then.

Assertion without evidence. Given a Sol-mass neutron star (although a real one would be somewhat more massive) at 10 Earth diameters, acceleration on a body would be some 8156 m/s^2. This is less than a fifth of a Jedi fighter's stated acceleration of 5000g's (if memory serves). It may well be within the DS's capabilities to accelerate at 8km/s^2. Next time, run numbers before you run off your mouth.

True enough. However, a death star is not a fighter. Not even close. You are comparing a speed boat with an aircraft carrier. With acceleration like that it could have been at Yavin in a fraction of the time that it took to get there.

Of course, failing that the Death Star could just slingshot around the neutron star, which would require zero acceleration.

I assumed that it would want to move as little as possible through the magnetic fields and radiation beams, but have it your way.

Second, because of the enormous magnetic field around neutron stars. It would scramble all of its systems immediately, at an enormous distance.

Assertion without evidence. We know that SW equipment is physically shielded against EM radiation and such, and we know that the Death Star is shielded.[/quote]

Umm... Evidence that it is shielded against EM radiation? Especially of this magnitude? This much energy would push thousands if not millions of volts through the hull - at the very least.

Furthermore, if the neutron star is rotating, then it is a pulsar, emitting radiation that we can clearly detect over hundreds of light-years. What do you think it would do to a hunk of junk like that? I suspect that even people hiding at the core would get a lethal dose if the DS wonders into the path of a beam.

I can clearly detect the radiation of a star from hundreds of light years away with my naked eye. I could clearly detect a vastly smaller light source from hundreds of light years away if I were using even rudamentary astronomy equipment. Without numbers, your claim falls short.

Well, lets begin with the fact that the neutron stars by themselves are extremely hot, and produce blackbody radiation of around one third of the sun - emitted from a source around a dozen km in radius. That would produce a radiation of around 570 GW/m^2 of the DS. Of course, most of it will be in the form of X-rays, which will probably kill everyone on board. Of course it will be worse if that sort of power is focused in a beam.

Not to mention the various exotic particles produced by Hawking radiation.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

True enough. However, a death star is not a fighter. Not even close. You are comparing a speed boat with an aircraft carrier. With acceleration like that it could have been at Yavin in a fraction of the time that it took to get there.

IIRC, the analyzed acceleration was at least 100Gs.

I assumed that it would want to move as little as possible through the magnetic fields and radiation beams, but have it your way.

Umm... Evidence that it is shielded against EM radiation? Especially of this magnitude? This much energy would push thousands if not millions of volts through the hull - at the very least.

Elim, even that exhaust port is ray shielded, and I really doubt the Death Star only has a set of particle shields.

Well, lets begin with the fact that the neutron stars by themselves are extremely hot, and produce blackbody radiation of around one third of the sun - emitted from a source around a dozen km in radius. That would produce a radiation of around 570 GW/m^2 of the DS. Of course, most of it will be in the form of X-rays, which will probably kill everyone on board. Of course it will be worse if that sort of power is focused in a beam.

Not to mention the various exotic particles produced by Hawking radiation.

5.7E11W/m^2 worth of bombardment. I'd take your word on that ... the Death Star's profile area is approximately 2.01E10m^2. That means the ship is taking just over 1E22W of radiation. Even if you concentrated that kind of bombardment on a lone Acclamator, its sheilds would still dissipate it successfully. So unless you wish to contend that the Empire's biggest battle stations doesn't have something they install on troop transports, frigates and destroyers, or that X-rays get free passses through SW shields, the Death Star would pass this test easily. Next.

[Howedar]

True enough. However, a death star is not a fighter. Not even close. You are comparing a speed boat with an aircraft carrier. With acceleration like that it could have been at Yavin in a fraction of the time that it took to get there.

You really have to work on this "providing evidence" thing. Support your fucking claims or don't waste my time.

I assumed that it would want to move as little as possible through the magnetic fields and radiation beams, but have it your way.

What the hell makes you think that slingshotting would require the DS to get any closer? Do you have even the slightest understanding of orbital mechanics?

Umm... Evidence that it is shielded against EM radiation? Especially of this magnitude? This much energy would push thousands if not millions of volts through the hull - at the very least.

1. I know the DS is shielded against EM radiation because the Death Star is ray shielded. It also has its own magnetic field.

2. GIVE ME THE FUCKING NUMBERS. Don't just pull values out of your ass.

Well, lets begin with the fact that the neutron stars by themselves are extremely hot, and produce blackbody radiation of around one third of the sun - emitted from a source around a dozen km in radius. That would produce a radiation of around 570 GW/m^2 of the DS. Of course, most of it will be in the form of X-rays, which will probably kill everyone on board. Of course it will be worse if that sort of power is focused in a beam.

The sun produces about 4e26 watts. So, 1.33e26 watts times the fraction of the sky the DS takes up at 10 diameters would be the amount of power it is subject to. The DS's visible area is Pi*(80000m)^2 or about 2e10 square meters. The total surface area of a 10 planetary diameter sphere would be 4*Pi*(12756000m)^2 or about 2e15 square meters. So the DS would be absorbing about 1.33e26 watts times (2e10 m^2)/(2e15 m^2) or about 1.33e21 watts. This is an order of magnitude lower than the shielding for a lowly Acclamator.

Not to mention the various exotic particles produced by Hawking radiation.

Since when are we talking about black holes?

[Ender]

Neutron star:
Escape velocity of the sun at the surface: 618 km/s
Mass of the sun: 2E30 kg
=> KE(blow up sun) = 1/2 * 2E30 * 6.18E5^2 = 4E41 Joule
too massive to be blown up by the Death Star.

Actually, it might not be. the 38 thing is the kinetic energy of the remains, not the thermal energy input, whcih would be much greater, and the Death Star technical journal says it was capable of vaporizing planets.

Course aiming ofr higher numbers like that at this point is pure overkill, but still...

It could atleas blast a good chunk out of it.

Oh, come on what isn't an overkill?!?!? Next you will be saying that the DS could vaporize the entire galaxy based on some scribblings on a bathroom wall at an SW convention!

If you would at any time like to counter my argument, I'll be waiting.

I am pretty sure that the DS won't even be able to approach a neutron star close enough for a shot.

Small ships can close to it and escape again, i would love to hear your reasoning that the death star, while larger, cannot given that its greater size means more power fo the engines.

Even if it did, the energy would most likely be absorbed by the material - pure really-real neutronium, remember? Liquid, in fact.

All neutronium is by definition both liquid and pure, so your attempts at playing it up fail. It comes down to power.

Though I would be very interested in seeing what the beam would do in such a strong magnetic field.

magnetic fields have never stopped weapons before.

[Ender]

Why would the Death Star not be able to approach closely to a neutron star? It is no more massive than a main sequence star that is still burning. The mass is more compressed, but this makes essentially no difference to the gravity away from the object.

Well, first of all presumably it would need to get within 6-10 planetary diameters for an optimal shot. It woud be difficult to get out then.

Small ships flit in and out with no problem, the DS has far more powerful engines.

Second, because of the enormous magnetic field around neutron stars. It would scramble all of its systems immediately, at an enormous distance.

Prove it.

Furthermore, if the neutron star is rotating, then it is a pulsar, emitting radiation that we can clearly detect over hundreds of light-years. What do you think it would do to a hunk of junk like that? I suspect that even people hiding at the core would get a lethal dose if the DS wonders into the path of a beam.

*snort* prove it, especially in light of the fact that the reactor of the death star would inherently be giving off mroe radiation then a star, showing that the can stop it, and the presence of shields.

[Ender]

Well, first of all presumably it would need to get within 6-10 planetary diameters for an optimal shot. It woud be difficult to get out then.

Assertion without evidence. Given a Sol-mass neutron star (although a real one would be somewhat more massive) at 10 Earth diameters, acceleration on a body would be some 8156 m/s^2. This is less than a fifth of a Jedi fighter's stated acceleration of 5000g's (if memory serves). It may well be within the DS's capabilities to accelerate at 8km/s^2. Next time, run numbers before you run off your mouth.

True enough. However, a death star is not a fighter. Not even close. You are comparing a speed boat with an aircraft carrier. With acceleration like that it could have been at Yavin in a fraction of the time that it took to get there.

The Death Star has far more power to throw to its engines then any fighter. At Yavin it was busy charging the beam. Further, they could always disable the saftey interlocks and jump to hyperspace.

Of course, failing that the Death Star could just slingshot around the neutron star, which would require zero acceleration.

I assumed that it would want to move as little as possible through the magnetic fields and radiation beams, but have it your way.

Prove they would have any effect. We know that they already have methods of harvesting neutronium from neutron stars, and thus correspondingly protective technology, and that they must already shield from a much higher gamma and neutron flux from their own reactor. So prove it would be an issue.

Second, because of the enormous magnetic field around neutron stars. It would scramble all of its systems immediately, at an enormous distance.

Assertion without evidence. We know that SW equipment is physically shielded against EM radiation and such, and we know that the Death Star is shielded.

Umm... Evidence that it is shielded against EM radiation? Especially of this magnitude?[/quote]Tell me idiot, what do you think is released from the detonation of a thermonuclear device (IE a proton torpedo) if it isn't EM radiation.

This much energy would push thousands if not millions of volts through the hull - at the very least.

Furthermore, if the neutron star is rotating, then it is a pulsar, emitting radiation that we can clearly detect over hundreds of light-years. What do you think it would do to a hunk of junk like that? I suspect that even people hiding at the core would get a lethal dose if the DS wonders into the path of a beam.

I can clearly detect the radiation of a star from hundreds of light years away with my naked eye. I could clearly detect a vastly smaller light source from hundreds of light years away if I were using even rudamentary astronomy equipment. Without numbers, your claim falls short.

Well, lets begin with the fact that the neutron stars by themselves are extremely hot, and produce blackbody radiation of around one third of the sun - emitted from a source around a dozen km in radius. That would produce a radiation of around 570 GW/m^2 of the DS. Of course, most of it will be in the form of X-rays, which will probably kill everyone on board. Of course it will be worse if that sort of power is focused in a beam.

Not to mention the various exotic particles produced by Hawking radiation.

Jesus christ, you really have no idea what you are talking about, do you? Tell you what, go learn something more then copy pasted phrases, then come back to play, alright?

[Trogdor]

Not sure about the star. The gas giant, I'm sure could be destroyed. I'm not sure with the Dyson, considering it's mostly empty space, a DS blast might just blow a big ass hole in it and cause it to break apart. The idea of the Feds hiding inside it is unlikely, though, considering it has a very unstable star inside it.

[Tribun]

Not sure about the star. The gas giant, I'm sure could be destroyed. I'm not sure with the Dyson, considering it's mostly empty space, a DS blast might just blow a big ass hole in it and cause it to break apart. The idea of the Feds hiding inside it is unlikely, though, considering it has a very unstable star inside it.

Like I said before, the DS shoot the star inside the sphere, and it would be cooked from the inside out.

[HRogge]

Not sure about the star. The gas giant, I'm sure could be destroyed. I'm not sure with the Dyson, considering it's mostly empty space, a DS blast might just blow a big ass hole in it and cause it to break apart. The idea of the Feds hiding inside it is unlikely, though, considering it has a very unstable star inside it.

Like I said before, the DS shoot the star inside the sphere, and it would be cooked from the inside out.

That's boring... just let a few world devastators loose on the dyson sphere and after a few years you got millions of WDs for free !

[Tribun]

Not sure about the star. The gas giant, I'm sure could be destroyed. I'm not sure with the Dyson, considering it's mostly empty space, a DS blast might just blow a big ass hole in it and cause it to break apart. The idea of the Feds hiding inside it is unlikely, though, considering it has a very unstable star inside it.

Like I said before, the DS shoot the star inside the sphere, and it would be cooked from the inside out.

That's boring... just let a few world devastators loose on the dyson sphere and after a few years you got millions of WDs for free !

Yeajh.
They would not even need to crack the matter into it's besic components, because it already is refined metal.

[Lord of the Farce]

Furthermore, if the neutron star is rotating, then it is a pulsar, emitting radiation that we can clearly detect over hundreds of light-years. What do you think it would do to a hunk of junk like that? I suspect that even people hiding at the core would get a lethal dose if the DS wonders into the path of a beam.

A real "hunk of junk" of the Star Wars galaxy, ie. the Millenium Falcon, flew within a thousand kilometers of a neutron star in the book Rebel Dawn with little apparent damage to rescue another ship.

Game. Set. Match.

[Sarevok]

Umm... Evidence that it is shielded against EM radiation? Especially of this magnitude? This much energy would push thousands if not millions of volts through the hull - at the very least.

Well, lets begin with the fact that the neutron stars by themselves are extremely hot, and produce blackbody radiation of around one third of the sun - emitted from a source around a dozen km in radius. That would produce a radiation of around 570 GW/m^2 of the DS. Of course, most of it will be in the form of X-rays, which will probably kill everyone on board. Of course it will be worse if that sort of power is focused in a beam.

Deflector shields can absorb direct hits from 200 gigaton heavy turbolasers. That is more radiation than the Death Star would receive from a neutron star.

True enough. However, a death star is not a fighter. Not even close. You are comparing a speed boat with an aircraft carrier. With acceleration like that it could have been at Yavin in a fraction of the time that it took to get there.

Others have given solid figures about the Death Stars acceleration so I would not repeat it. I would just like to point out that the Death Star is equipped with a repulsor drive which is essentialy an anti-gravity system.

Second, because of the enormous magnetic field around neutron stars. It would scramble all of its systems immediately, at an enormous distance.

Source ?

[grayburst]

The lose of power due to beam dispersion on something with the estimated power levels of the superlaser would still allow tremendous energy to be imparted to a target even past the million kilometer mark. A Death star like starship could stand off at such a distance and routinely pulse blast after blast from the superlaser into the targeted neutron star. Eventually the energy build up would cause a thermal reaction within the neutron star itself. Without doing the calculations the most likely result is an serious increase of activity in the stellar mass till the point it started throwing off material. While the density of the electromagnetic field around a active pulsar is one of the highest of any natural phenomena outside of a supermassive black hole, it is still not enough to truly damage a piece of technology of the sophistication required to make a Death Star, not unless said Death Star approached to within thousands of kilometers instead of tens of thousands. There just is not any need to approach that close with the focus and energy levels of the superweapon to do enough damage to eventually destroy the neutron star.

[LordShaithis]

Elim = pwned!!1!

And why the hell would you WANT to blow up a gas giant?

Tarkin: Now, Lord Vader, do you recognize the power of this battlestation?

Vader: The ability to nuke a cloud is insignifigant next to...

T: The power of the Force, blah blah blah! And it's not a cloud! It's a gas giant!

V: It's a huge ball of gas, ergo it's a cloud.

T: Do you have any idea how much energy it takes to disperse a gas giant!?

V: I have your gas giant right here. *farts* Disperse that.