Star Trek VI

[DocHorror]

I just rewatched the Undiscovered Country & I must say Im depressed...Im depressed because that was a really, really good film & all the other Trek films after it have been cak in comparision.

I know the WOK is the greatest Trek movie, but I think UC follows closely by its heels...mind you the whole WOK trillogy is pretty good. The only let down in the original series is number 5.

I just thought I'd throw my opinion into the mixer...

I really enjoy this board & the way it tears the ass out of Nu Trek. Though I think Im not alone in being a staunch defender of TOS & associated movies...

I couldn't care less about TNG, DS9 and the rest...

[Master of Ossus]

The only thing I disliked about that movie was how it was possible for the sniper to MISS. He was less than a hundred meters away, he had a telescopic sight (apparently), and he had ages to line up. How could he have choked that badly?

[Evil Jerk]

Well.. MAYBE he intended to miss, and make it look like an attempted assassination, maybe West didn't want to actually kill his President.
Really weak excuse, I know.

[VF5SS]

I find it extremely convinient that the Feds hadn't figured out a way to track cloaked ships up until that point. Its a rather old concept to track a vessel by its engine emissions... Damn plot device nearly ruined that whole fight scene.

[Guest]

one thing that pissed me off about that film was the re-use of characters

put yourself on DS9, Sisqo is making dinner for his dad.
"Jeez dad did any one ever tell you you look just like Admiral Cartright"

and later in security "shit odo you don't half look like West"

then later on the defiant "Worf has you family always been warriors or were you lawers once upon a time"

[Evil Jerk]

then later on the defiant "Worf has you family always been warriors or were you lawers once upon a time"

I think this one is explainable, Col. Worf is supposed to be Worf's grandpa, I think.
Plus, this is the Klingon Empire before it degenerated into Fundamentalism and moronery, so I guess being a lawyer was perfectly fine back then.

[Kuja]

then later on the defiant "Worf has you family always been warriors or were you lawers once upon a time"

I think this one is explainable, Col. Worf is supposed to be Worf's grandpa, I think.
Plus, this is the Klingon Empire before it degenerated into Fundamentalism and moronery, so I guess being a lawyer was perfectly fine back then.

Yes, and I admire Colonel Worf. He was appointed by the court, but by Hades, he did his best. Read the novel, man. He was honest, and he really tried.

[seanrobertson]

I just rewatched the Undiscovered Country & I must say Im depressed...Im depressed because that was a really, really good film & all the other Trek films after it have been cak in comparision.

First Contact wasn't caca.

I know the WOK is the greatest Trek movie, but I think UC follows closely by its heels...mind you the whole WOK trillogy is pretty good. The only let down in the original series is number 5.

I really dig II and III. IV is a direct follow-up to III just as III is
to II, but the whole bit with the whale woman started to get on my
nerves. It's still a good film, but not up to II or III IMO.

TMP was awfully damn slow...and given that the concept was hardly
anything new ("The Changeling" anyone?), I should probably judge it
more harshly. Still, I liked it...it was well-directed for the most part,
though it could've used far more intelligent editing. I swear if I saw
that big blue "maw" pulsating one more minute I would've been
hypnotized.

I just thought I'd throw my opinion into the mixer...

I really enjoy this board & the way it tears the ass out of Nu Trek. Though I think Im not alone in being a staunch defender of TOS & associated movies...

I couldn't care less about TNG, DS9 and the rest...

Why not? I'm geniunely curious.

You're certainly not "alone" in singling out TNG and beyond here; if
anything, I seem to be the only person that says TNG is his favorite.
TOS certainly had its moments--at its best, like "City on the Edge
of Forever," it was simply artful--but taken as a series,
I think it stunk next to TNG. Yes, even with the meaningless Counselor Troi and Wesley Crusher characters, and even with the inane horror
that was most of TNG season one. (Remember Yutan, or the Edo
god? [barfbarfbarf].)

Deep Space Nine also comes under a lot of fire, but most of the people
who crash on it didn't even *watch* the show. I know one person that's
made his distaste for the show known in another forum, yet he once
told me that he "gave up on it" after the second season. Whoops.
(Hasty generalization.) The show was far from perfect, and I thought
the writers literally fucked themselves right around season six in
many ways; e.g., making Gul Dukat go insane. I freely admit that.
But it also did a lot of things not done before or since in Trek, maintaining
an extensive cast of quality extras for example, who made the stories
better.

What I think is most important to keep in mind is that we needn't set up false dilemmas here; i.e., either like TOS or TNG and DS9, but not two or all of them. All three of those shows were quite good. All had their stinkers, and all had their noteworthy episodes. No one has to like
one or all of them, to be sure, but just as often as you might've heard
people dump on TOS for being "old" or bad in some way have I heard
others drone on and on about how TNG, DS9, and VGR are all easily lumped together as the same big collective turd.

[Master of Ossus]

That's strange. Apparently Sean is the first person ever to enjoy ST:III, In Search of a Plot, more than ST:IV.

[Parallax]

He also seems to have liked 'First Contact' ... which was, quite frankly, so much complete bollocks.

[SirNitram]

He also seems to have liked 'First Contact' ... which was, quite frankly, so much complete bollocks.

I liked First Contact. Because I went in expecting nothing more than an action movie in Trek format. I also think AOTC was true to the character's of Anakin and Padme in their atrocious attempts at being romantic(One's a senator since before puberty, the other has had no relationship with a female aside from his mother). And I have steadfastly liked TPM.

[Master of Ossus]

I liked ST:FC because I was expecting so little and they delivered a decent movie.

To mention ST:FC and AotC in the same paragraph is to demean the brilliance of the latter film. I only do this in order to point out Nitram's error. I mean no disrespect to SW or GL.

[Stormbringer]

Star Trek doesn't get any better than Undiscovered Country. It had a message, a cool villian, and a sweet spacebattle.

[SirNitram]

I liked ST:FC because I was expecting so little and they delivered a decent movie.

To mention ST:FC and AotC in the same paragraph is to demean the brilliance of the latter film. I only do this in order to point out Nitram's error. I mean no disrespect to SW or GL.

Would you like a paragraph break just to indicate AOTC is better?

I was talking about how my enjoyment from a film is oft far different from most fans of either genre. I've heard alot of Trekkies bash FC, and alot of Warsies bash AOTC, and I liked both.

As for FC, I think the problem many Trekkies had with it was that it was an action flick. It was like a sci-fi version of a gothic horror flick(For the Borg are so very much like zombies or ghouls, and the Borg Queen was entirely the part of a female vampire trying to tempt a mortal!), but it had alot of action sequences which ultimately would draw in those who aren't just casual ST fans.

If the Nu Trek that followed had been of a higher caliber, FC would mark the point where Trek would have experienced a resurgence in viewers, for something like FC will draw in new fans.

[Vympel]

Since when does Admiral Cartwright look like Sisko? It's not the same actor!

But yes reusing actors for different roles is a ST tradition. Like Neelix being the hologram guy in the big goodbye in First Contact.

[Stravo]

Since when does Admiral Cartwright look like Sisko? It's not the same actor!

But yes reusing actors for different roles is a ST tradition. Like Neelix being the hologram guy in the big goodbye in First Contact.

Sisko's FATHER is the same actor who played Cartwright.

[Vympel]

Whoops. My bad- didn't read it correctly thought Jake was preparing dinner for his dad ... never mind

[seanrobertson]

That's strange. Apparently Sean is the first person ever to enjoy ST:III, In Search of a Plot, more than ST:IV.

It unveiled the Bird of Prey. What more need I say?

Seriously though, something about Trek III clicked for me. Trek IV is
undoubtedly more popular, but I didn't like the time travel, and I got
a little tired of the preachy message behind the whole thing. (It's
a valid sentiment, and Star Trek is partly about making such statements,
but such only works if you aren't ever cognizant of the message itself
IMO.) It had some very humorous parts, but a predictable conclusion
and rather ridiculous consequences; e.g., Kirk being demoted by one
grade, then given a brand-new starship!

Trek III wasn't all that predictable. I don't think anyone expected
the Enterprise to be lost. The film also depicted the future as
a bit grittier than some of the others, what with mercenaries, seedy
bars, pirate-like Klingons and all.

[Crazy_Vasey]

I felt completely ripped off by FC. I was under the impression there was going to be a kick ass space battle, in reality it was blink and you'll miss it fare. Bah!

[Alyeska]

I read one movie review about First Contact that I felt very fitting. First Contact was a sci-fi action horror movie all in one. And it styled itself after the Alien series. I think that is a relatively good description of the movie. The Borg are the deadly horror aspect. The combat and fighting the Borg was the action, and the sci-fi is blindly obvious. That explains why its such a good movie. Trying to go deeper in the movie is like trying to find more plot in Predator or Aliens, there ain't any. Its just a good movie because its enjoyable to watch the action and how people react. TWOK was somewhat similar, except it sacraficed action for plot and did a really good job at it. UC managed to have a little action, a really nice medium length ship battle, and had LOTS of plot that wasn't overly complex.

[Master of Ossus]

Hmmm.... I did kind of enjoy the feeling of space presented in ST:III, even if I hated the rest of the movie. I did like the comedic aspects of ST:IV, but that was primarily because I didn't think that the point of the movie was to create any kind of suspense.

Alyeska, in terms of horror, FC was nothing like Alien or Aliens, however I agree with your general assessment of the movie. Overall, I found it enjoyable, but I also understand how it felt really disjointed from many of the other Trek movies, which I think hurt its popularity amongst some fans of the series.