Anyone think First Contact was a very flawed for a ST film?

SWvST: the subject of the main site.

Moderator: Vympel

User avatar
THEHOOLIGANJEDI
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1971
Joined: 2002-07-11 03:44pm
Location: Highland Park, New Jersey
Contact:

Anyone think First Contact was a very flawed for a ST film?

Post by THEHOOLIGANJEDI »

I will not entertain any flaming so Please Refrain from it.

I enjoyed the movie immensely, but I found it to be very flawed for a Star Trek Film. I didn't like the post WW III setting, with the whole overused post apocalyptic future scenario. And I didn't like how Zephraim Cochran was written, he seemed more like drunken hobo them a guy who was going to make an impact with history, B&B attempt at making a seemingly insignificant man turn into an icon I think failed miserably in my eyes. The way the charcter was written was unbelieveable and total unrealistic even for them. Another Flaw was the setting of post-WWII, it's poorly explained and kinda pointless to have it the way they did it if they are not gonna explain it adequetely, plus I straight up didn't like it. The whole Faction thing was pretty stupid IMO. Third, I didn't like how they ruined the Time travel story with Riker and Geordi Going up with Cochran instead of Lily (wasn't she supposed to have gone up with him), as a huge fan of well written Time Travel stories that kind of insulted me, and it breaks the Temporal Prime Directive. :roll:
I have Improvements to the movie, (which I'llpost later) but what do you think would have made this movie be close to being as good as TWOK or TUC (which do have it's flaws).

BTW, FC is far Superior to Generations, and Insurrection, just so you don't think that based on my post that I think it's the worst Trek movie.
Image
Stupid risks are what make life worth living.-Homer Simpson

-PC Load Letter?! What the Fuck does that mean!?!?!- Micheal Bolton
-Bullshit! I'll bet you can suck a golf ball through a garden hose! - Sgt. Hartman
-I'll bet your the kind of guy who would fuck a person in the ass and not even have the Goddamn common courtesy to give him a reacharound!- Sgt. Hartman
User avatar
Evil Jerk
Moderator Emeritus
Posts: 998
Joined: 2002-08-30 08:28am
Location: In the Castle of Pain on the Mountain of Death beyond the River of Fire

Post by Evil Jerk »

FC was okay, but yes, it did have problems.
I didn't like the Borg Queen, I didn't like the idea of her, I didn't like how she chewed the scenery, I didn't like her slutty antics with Data ("I'm the physical manifestation of a collective of billions of minds, let's get it on!" whatever).
And to this day I cannot fathom why the Borg would be so stupid as to assimilate Earth before it has any technology of any interest to them instead of sending a larger force..

Also.. it's a minor thing, but at one point, Cochrane says he's doing what he's doing not to advance humanity but to make money.
From who? Who's paying him? What post-WW3 faction would give a damn about a pod with warp engines anyway?
Evil Horseman, ready to torment the damned!

YOU SHALL BE AS GODS
YOU SHALL BE AS GODS
YOU SHALL BE AS GODS
Am I annoying you yet?
YOU SHALL BE AS GODS
User avatar
seanrobertson
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2145
Joined: 2002-07-12 05:57pm

Re: Anyone think First Contact was a very flawed for a ST fi

Post by seanrobertson »

THEHOOLIGANJEDI wrote:I will not entertain any flaming so Please Refrain from it.
Absolutely. No flaming from me :) I think I oftentimes come across
as a real jerk, but I'm really not for the most part...the vast
majority of the time I approach things with all the best intentions ;)
I enjoyed the movie immensely, but I found it to be very flawed for a Star Trek Film. I didn't like the post WW III setting, with the whole overused post apocalyptic future scenario. And I didn't like how Zephraim Cochran was written, he seemed more like drunken hobo them a guy who was going to make an impact with history, B&B attempt at making a seemingly insignificant man turn into an icon I think failed miserably in my eyes.
That's actually quite a good criticism. I don't think Cochrane's alcoholism was really overdone in the film--perhaps a bit--but it WAS a bit of a stretch
to portray this truly heroic innovator as a stone-cold boozer.

I mean, it's certainly possible for an innovator of sorts TO be a drunk.
Hell, I'm drinking a beer as I write this, and I like to think I'm a highly
intelligent person. But if I understand your criticism of the film, it's
really not that Cochrane was a drunk that's bothering you; rather, it's
the rather trite "we can all make a difference!" message as such that's
getting rather old. It's been forced down all our throats, yet most of
us understand that it's just flat-out bullshit. Rarely can we really
"make a difference," a truly meaningful difference, to anyone but our immediate loved ones. And to be sure, very few of us are going to
create FTL drives :) As such, their attempt to humanize Cochrane
was...ham-fisted. Yes, that's what I wanted to say.

Still, ham-fisted doesn't correlate to "terrible." It was maybe a little
over the top, but not *that* bad. For an over-the-top character one
might look to the clumsiness of Jar Jar Binks instead :)
The way the charcter was written was unbelieveable and total unrealistic even for them. Another Flaw was the setting of post-WWII, it's poorly explained and kinda pointless to have it the way they did it if they are not gonna explain it adequetely, plus I straight up didn't like it. The whole Faction thing was pretty stupid IMO. Third, I didn't like how they ruined the Time travel story with Riker and Geordi Going up with Cochran instead of Lily (wasn't she supposed to have gone up with him), as a huge fan of well written Time Travel stories that kind of insulted me, and it breaks the Temporal Prime Directive. :roll:
It might've, but at that point, the only really relevant thing was that
the Vulcans detected warp-capable humans. Who was on the craft
itself was pretty insignificant.

The factions? I only heard a blurb or two about those, so I can't really
comment...you're an intelligent person, so I have to put some stock
in your impression of such. However, I'm ever the quasi-skeptic
(a *true* skeptic totally denies the nature of reality, for the philosophers
among us), so what about the factions did you think was particularly
fanciful?
I have Improvements to the movie, (which I'llpost later) but what do you think would have made this movie be close to being as good as TWOK or TUC (which do have it's flaws).

BTW, FC is far Superior to Generations, and Insurrection, just so you don't think that based on my post that I think it's the worst Trek movie.
Oh, no...you made that quite clear. When you said you enjoyed the film,
I KNEW you weren't going on a single-minded TNG film-bashing rampage
:)

I would certainly love to hear your improvements for the movie. I,
for one, would've spent more time with the space combat. The FX
in the battle itself were great, but they lasted what...two minutes?
A Borg cube is a fucking JUGGERNAUT compared to small Federation
fleets. It's apparent that quite a lot of fighting went on offscreen.

That in itself could've been explored; i.e., Picard's guilt and hatred
of the Borg, given that HIS ship was sent far away from the battle
(even though it's a powerful ship, probably more potent in combat
than any Galaxy). It was far too brief.

Cochrane's drinking could've been explored. Few alcoholics drink
for no reason at all, though oftentimes their motivations are heavily
based in depressive, even psychotic/self-destructive behavior. Why
was he depressed, then? WWIII?

The Borg could've been fleshed out a bit, too, though I respectfully
disagree with the illustrious Mr. Ossus in that I rather liked the Borg
Queen. Not only was she sorta sexy in a kinky way (and yes, guys,
I'm a Warsie/Trekkie who's gotten laid, LOL), I found the concept
of a "Queen" not *too* detestable. I did like the Borg as they were
circa "Q Who?" better, though.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world, or despair, or fuckin' beatin's. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, ya got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man ... and give some back.
-Al Swearengen

Cry woe, destruction, ruin and decay: The worst is death, and death will have his day.
-Ole' Shakey's "Richard II," Act III, scene ii.
Image
User avatar
Akm72
Padawan Learner
Posts: 238
Joined: 2002-07-11 07:25am
Location: Sussex, UK

Post by Akm72 »

Evil Jerk wrote:Also.. it's a minor thing, but at one point, Cochrane says he's doing what he's doing not to advance humanity but to make money.
From who? Who's paying him? What post-WW3 faction would give a damn about a pod with warp engines anyway?
Maybe all the would-be colonists who'd give him their life savings if he could transport them away from the war-torn Earth?
"Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, "Yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up must come down, down, down. Amen!" If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it."
- Dan Barker
User avatar
Evil Jerk
Moderator Emeritus
Posts: 998
Joined: 2002-08-30 08:28am
Location: In the Castle of Pain on the Mountain of Death beyond the River of Fire

Post by Evil Jerk »

Akm72 wrote:
Evil Jerk wrote:Also.. it's a minor thing, but at one point, Cochrane says he's doing what he's doing not to advance humanity but to make money.
From who? Who's paying him? What post-WW3 faction would give a damn about a pod with warp engines anyway?
Maybe all the would-be colonists who'd give him their life savings if he could transport them away from the war-torn Earth?
Assuming that he could actually build something other than the Phoenix, a glorified orbital pod which barely did warp 1, which I doubt.
Evil Horseman, ready to torment the damned!

YOU SHALL BE AS GODS
YOU SHALL BE AS GODS
YOU SHALL BE AS GODS
Am I annoying you yet?
YOU SHALL BE AS GODS
User avatar
Ender
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11323
Joined: 2002-07-30 11:12pm
Location: Illinois

Re: Anyone think First Contact was a very flawed for a ST fi

Post by Ender »

THEHOOLIGANJEDI wrote:I will not entertain any flaming so Please Refrain from it.
You're a poopyhead!
بيرني كان سيفوز
*
Nuclear Navy Warwolf
*
in omnibus requiem quaesivi, et nusquam inveni nisi in angulo cum libro
*
ipsa scientia potestas est
User avatar
Akm72
Padawan Learner
Posts: 238
Joined: 2002-07-11 07:25am
Location: Sussex, UK

Post by Akm72 »

Evil Jerk wrote:
Akm72 wrote: Assuming that he could actually build something other than the Phoenix, a glorified orbital pod which barely did warp 1, which I doubt.
Isn't he supposed to have eventually relocated to Alpha Centauri himself?
"Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, "Yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up must come down, down, down. Amen!" If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it."
- Dan Barker
User avatar
Evil Jerk
Moderator Emeritus
Posts: 998
Joined: 2002-08-30 08:28am
Location: In the Castle of Pain on the Mountain of Death beyond the River of Fire

Post by Evil Jerk »

Akm72 wrote:
Evil Jerk wrote:
Akm72 wrote: Assuming that he could actually build something other than the Phoenix, a glorified orbital pod which barely did warp 1, which I doubt.
Isn't he supposed to have eventually relocated to Alpha Centauri himself?
After the Vulcans came and fixed up everything.
Evil Horseman, ready to torment the damned!

YOU SHALL BE AS GODS
YOU SHALL BE AS GODS
YOU SHALL BE AS GODS
Am I annoying you yet?
YOU SHALL BE AS GODS
User avatar
SirNitram
Rest in Peace, Black Mage
Posts: 28367
Joined: 2002-07-03 04:48pm
Location: Somewhere between nowhere and everywhere

Post by SirNitram »

I disagree: I think Cochrane's alcoholism and boozer status was not so much a hamfisted attempt to humanize the character, but a jab at hero worship. We assume those who do great things must be great, pure, high minded.. But why should we assume they aren't a guy who, faced with the near-annihilation of civilization, is making one last hurrah for his own checkbook?

One thing I compare the Borg and the Queen to are a gothic horror movie. Note the similarities.. A Borg Drone is a zombie, immune to normal weapons(Phasers), mindless, unrelenting, and if you lose, you become one. The Queen resembles a Vampire in many ways, commanding her minions, corrupting a mortal for her own purposes(Data), and so forth. In this perspective, of an action/horror flick, it succeeds well, though Picard did seem a bit over-the-top at times, in his Captain Ahab moments.
Manic Progressive: A liberal who violently swings from anger at politicos to despondency over them.

Out Of Context theatre: Ron Paul has repeatedly said he's not a racist. - Destructinator XIII on why Ron Paul isn't racist.

Shadowy Overlord - BMs/Black Mage Monkey - BOTM/Jetfire - Cybertron's Finest/General Miscreant/ASVS/Supermoderator Emeritus

Debator Classification: Trollhunter
User avatar
Darth Wong
Sith Lord
Sith Lord
Posts: 70028
Joined: 2002-07-03 12:25am
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Post by Darth Wong »

Re: Cochrane. I think that Cochrane was actually the ST writers' jab at academia and the scientific community. I think they don't want to believe that scientists are the intellectuals they are portrayed to be. I think they WANT to believe that scientists are just as stupid and self-destructive as people in ... Hollywood.

I think they're off-base; in my experience, scientists are less likely to be self-destructive than the general population (never mind Hollywood), and an alcoholic scientist is not likely to be particularly effective at what he does.
Image
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
User avatar
SPOOFE
Sith Devotee
Posts: 3174
Joined: 2002-07-03 07:34pm
Location: Woodland Hills, CA
Contact:

Post by SPOOFE »

Hey, now, there's nothing wrong with being an alcoholic.

As long as you don't tinker around with anti-matter, that is.
The Great and Malignant
User avatar
Master of Ossus
Darkest Knight
Posts: 18213
Joined: 2002-07-11 01:35am
Location: California

Post by Master of Ossus »

The post WWIII was at the same time not destroyed and chaotic enough (they didn't have to worry about basic needs--they had time to build a STARSHIP with absolutely no obvious survival advantages), and too chaotic (they tried to hard to make the community seem devastated with the tin structures, but if they're building hangars and things like that, how can it be so bad?). That was my biggest problem with the movie. Projections hold that the world would be MUCH more fucked up than that after a nuclear or biological exchange between superpowers.
"Sometimes I think you WANT us to fail." "Shut up, just shut up!" -Two Guys from Kabul

Latinum Star Recipient; Hacker's Cross Award Winner

"one soler flar can vapririze the planit or malt the nickl in lass than millasacit" -Bagara1000

"Happiness is just a Flaming Moe away."
User avatar
Vympel
Spetsnaz
Spetsnaz
Posts: 29312
Joined: 2002-07-19 01:08am
Location: Sydney Australia

Post by Vympel »

Master of Ossus wrote:(they tried to hard to make the community seem devastated with the tin structures, but if they're building hangars and things like that, how can it be so bad?). That was my biggest problem with the movie. Projections hold that the world would be MUCH more fucked up than that after a nuclear or biological exchange between superpowers.
That hangar was a pre-existing nuclear missile silo- in fact that's what the Phoenix was, yeah?

My biggest problem with ST:FC was the battle at the start. It was way too short.

The Borg Queen was a lame idea. Some chick in a batsuit an anti-trek site once commented ...

The plot holes were massive- why bother attacking Earth at all if you can just time travel anyway? Why target the Phoenix when you can destroy the Vulcan ship? Why target the Vulcan ship when you can assimilate Vulcan? Time travel sucks.

Good things about it:

- music was good
- battle scene, although short, had some nice eye candy, with the best torpedoes ever seen in an ST film- the torpedoes in DS9, TNG and Voyager really SUCKED in comparison- they look so WIMPY.
- sensible phaser rifle design
- the "you're astronauts on ... some kind of Star Trek" line cracked me up

that's about it really.
Like Legend of Galactic Heroes? Please contribute to http://gineipaedia.com/
User avatar
Patrick Degan
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 14847
Joined: 2002-07-15 08:06am
Location: Orleanian in exile

A HORRIBLY flawed movie

Post by Patrick Degan »

Frankly, I found Worst Contact to be a horribly flawed movie. The first appearance of LeatherBorg made me groan almost out loud in the theatre. Despite the fact that the creation of this "creature" was a tacit admission that Brannon Braga could get no drama out of ST's technozombies (representing a creative failure which didn't quite bedevil the writers of Doctor Who when crafting scripts for the Daleks and Cybemen —the original Borg, BTW), it was clearly a blatant appeal to the target audience of BragaTrek™ —the pathetic, perpetually girlfriend-less fangeeks whipping their skippy with their life-sized Counsellor Troi cardboard standees (to borrow from the sadly defunct SciFi Universe magazine) clutched at their sides. Filled with horrible cliches, plot-holes you could drive a whole fleet of Borg cubeships through, and alledged "comedy" pieces which were manifestly unfunny in a movie which was horribly bastardised cross-breeding between the Hammer vamire movies and Aliens. I don't think I saw it more than twice.

In addition to Darth Wong's observations of the BragaTrek™ version of Zephram Cochrane (which I absolutely HATED), I'd say that not only did that caricature represent a terrible misunderstanding of how scientists act and aprehend the world around them, and not only was it a terrible misunderstanding of how science and engineering themselves work, the FC version of ZC represents a not-very-subtle contempt for the original Star Trek at a fundamental level.

The FC Cocharine pisses all over the memory of the man we met in "Metamorphosis" not only by showing that the "hero" has clay feet, but also in depicting that the "real" Zephram Cochrane could not possibly have finished his cobbled-together backyard warp drive rocket all by himself but needed the help of the Enterprise crew from the future to do so. Metaphorically, this amounts to a statement by the current "caretakers" of the Franchise that TOS is nowhere near as great as the fans always thought it was, and that Gene Roddenberry's original vision needs the hamfisted "refinements" of Berman and Braga to "complete" it.

Brannon Braga is known for his naked contempt for TOS and the fans —especially those rejecting his dull and warped vision for ST in ever growing legions, and Worst Contact expresses this contempt writ large for the whole world to see.
User avatar
Sothis
Jedi Knight
Posts: 664
Joined: 2002-07-03 06:07pm
Location: UK
Contact:

Post by Sothis »

The novel (ok, it's not canon, I know), offers some more detail about Cochrane's alcoholism and adds a lot more background to Lily's character, and the whole WW3 scenario.

It also offers more detail on Picard's rage as well. If the film made him seem angry at times, the book does a better job, making him seem like a cold-blooded killer when it comes to the Borg. He basically nurses his hatred.
Hakuna Matata
The Forums of Sothis! http://www.1-2-free-forums.com/mf/sothis.html
User avatar
Admiral Drason
Jedi Knight
Posts: 768
Joined: 2002-09-04 05:43pm
Location: In my bomb shelter

Post by Admiral Drason »

I found other holes in FC such as ZC saying that he doesnt like to fly, that he takes the train. Well if its post WWIII I doubt TWA is still flying and I dont know what kind of shape Amtrack is in since air feilds and train tracks were most probably destroyed in the war. So is he refering to the form of transportation he used before, or is it what he uses after the war? It seemed to me that he still took the train instead of flying.
A truly wise man never plays leapfrog with a unicorn
So Say We All
Night Stalkers Don't Quit
HAB member
RIP Pegasus. You died like you lived, killing toasters
User avatar
Admiral Drason
Jedi Knight
Posts: 768
Joined: 2002-09-04 05:43pm
Location: In my bomb shelter

Post by Admiral Drason »

Admiral Drason wrote:I found other holes in FC such as ZC saying that he doesnt like to fly, that he takes the train. Well if its post WWIII I doubt TWA is still flying and I dont know what kind of shape Amtrack is in since air feilds and train tracks were most probably destroyed in the war. So is he refering to the form of transportation he used before, or is it what he uses after the war? It seemed to me that he still took the train instead of flying.
I ment he still takes the train.
A truly wise man never plays leapfrog with a unicorn
So Say We All
Night Stalkers Don't Quit
HAB member
RIP Pegasus. You died like you lived, killing toasters
User avatar
THEHOOLIGANJEDI
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1971
Joined: 2002-07-11 03:44pm
Location: Highland Park, New Jersey
Contact:

Post by THEHOOLIGANJEDI »

Well thanks all for your coomentary and your feeling on my post. Well I must have not been too clear on the ZC character in the Film, It's not that I didn't like his alcoholism (Iactually liked that imperfection), it's that I didn't like that he came off like a hobo, bum, vagrant.(now I'll hace to explain some of the mods I'd make) Now my changes that I would make to the Movie would be that, instead of the poorly explained WW3 factions;(it's an early concept)

-It would take Place in a reconstruction type era (same time) where the World is attempting to make peace and is rebuilding from the war.
- NASA man and WW3 veteran (and Alcoholic) Zephram Cochran has been proposing a new type of drive that can revolutionize space travel. Although reconstuction efforts are considered priority and his ideas are deemed a bit too ideaistic. He and fellow (Lily Sloan) NASA scientist (along with others) decide to steal some equipment b/c they know that they can build the warp drive, on their own. Well that all I got for amending the whole setting of post WW3.
Image
Stupid risks are what make life worth living.-Homer Simpson

-PC Load Letter?! What the Fuck does that mean!?!?!- Micheal Bolton
-Bullshit! I'll bet you can suck a golf ball through a garden hose! - Sgt. Hartman
-I'll bet your the kind of guy who would fuck a person in the ass and not even have the Goddamn common courtesy to give him a reacharound!- Sgt. Hartman
User avatar
THEHOOLIGANJEDI
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1971
Joined: 2002-07-11 03:44pm
Location: Highland Park, New Jersey
Contact:

Re: Anyone think First Contact was a very flawed for a ST fi

Post by THEHOOLIGANJEDI »

Ender wrote:
THEHOOLIGANJEDI wrote:I will not entertain any flaming so Please Refrain from it.
You're a poopyhead!
:D Fuck You! :D
Image
Stupid risks are what make life worth living.-Homer Simpson

-PC Load Letter?! What the Fuck does that mean!?!?!- Micheal Bolton
-Bullshit! I'll bet you can suck a golf ball through a garden hose! - Sgt. Hartman
-I'll bet your the kind of guy who would fuck a person in the ass and not even have the Goddamn common courtesy to give him a reacharound!- Sgt. Hartman
User avatar
THEHOOLIGANJEDI
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1971
Joined: 2002-07-11 03:44pm
Location: Highland Park, New Jersey
Contact:

Post by THEHOOLIGANJEDI »

THEHOOLIGANJEDI wrote:Well thanks all for your coomentary and your feeling on my post. Well I must have not been too clear on the ZC character in the Film, It's not that I didn't like his alcoholism (Iactually liked that imperfection), it's that I didn't like that he came off like a hobo, bum, vagrant.(now I'll hace to explain some of the mods I'd make) Now my changes that I would make to the Movie would be that, instead of the poorly explained WW3 factions;(it's an early concept)

-It would take Place in a reconstruction type era (same time) where the World is attempting to make peace and is rebuilding from the war.
- NASA man and WW3 veteran (and Alcoholic) Zephram Cochran has been proposing a new type of drive that can revolutionize space travel. Although reconstuction efforts are considered priority and his ideas are deemed a bit too ideaistic. He and fellow (Lily Sloan) NASA scientist (along with others) decide to steal some equipment b/c they know that they can build the warp drive, on their own. Well that all I got for amending the whole setting of post WW3.
More to come!! :wink:
Image
Stupid risks are what make life worth living.-Homer Simpson

-PC Load Letter?! What the Fuck does that mean!?!?!- Micheal Bolton
-Bullshit! I'll bet you can suck a golf ball through a garden hose! - Sgt. Hartman
-I'll bet your the kind of guy who would fuck a person in the ass and not even have the Goddamn common courtesy to give him a reacharound!- Sgt. Hartman
User avatar
Ender
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11323
Joined: 2002-07-30 11:12pm
Location: Illinois

Re: Anyone think First Contact was a very flawed for a ST fi

Post by Ender »

THEHOOLIGANJEDI wrote:
Ender wrote:
THEHOOLIGANJEDI wrote:I will not entertain any flaming so Please Refrain from it.
You're a poopyhead!
:D Fuck You! :D
You wish.
بيرني كان سيفوز
*
Nuclear Navy Warwolf
*
in omnibus requiem quaesivi, et nusquam inveni nisi in angulo cum libro
*
ipsa scientia potestas est
User avatar
THEHOOLIGANJEDI
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1971
Joined: 2002-07-11 03:44pm
Location: Highland Park, New Jersey
Contact:

Post by THEHOOLIGANJEDI »

OK now Back to the Point.
Image
Stupid risks are what make life worth living.-Homer Simpson

-PC Load Letter?! What the Fuck does that mean!?!?!- Micheal Bolton
-Bullshit! I'll bet you can suck a golf ball through a garden hose! - Sgt. Hartman
-I'll bet your the kind of guy who would fuck a person in the ass and not even have the Goddamn common courtesy to give him a reacharound!- Sgt. Hartman
Raoul Duke, Jr.
BANNED
Posts: 3791
Joined: 2002-09-25 06:59pm
Location: Suckling At The Teat Of Missmanners

Re: Anyone think First Contact was a very flawed for a ST fi

Post by Raoul Duke, Jr. »

THEHOOLIGANJEDI wrote:I will not entertain any flaming so Please Refrain from it.

I enjoyed the movie immensely, but I found it to be very flawed for a Star Trek Film. <snip>
I'd like to point out that, as a writer, I found Cochrane to be a sincere attempt (if a poor one) to put a twist on the "eccentric genius" character. Personally, I think he worked on several levels; I personally know several individuals who fit that personality. What I found really amazing was that they chose to show a man who, by all estimations, should never have succeeded in building a FTL engine. They gave the character a nice twist, and finally gave us a really likeable "mad scientist."
User avatar
Perinquus
Virus-X Wannabe
Posts: 2685
Joined: 2002-08-06 11:57pm

This got published right after the film's release:

Post by Perinquus »

WORST CONTACT

By Robert Meyer Burnett and David J Hargrove

Originally published in the April, 1997 issue of Sci-Fi Universe.

“Hey, I forgot how much I hate those filthy, stinkin’ Borg bastards!”
Sure, Jean-Luc was assimilated by the Borg. It was a terrible, traumatic experience. BUT IT WAS IN EPISODE #74! Picard made his way through 100 more hours of Next Gen adventures evolving as a character – with no hint of this all-consuming, self-destructive hatred, In fact, Picard had the opportunity in I, Borg to introduce a deadly computer virus into their collective, wiping them out utterly, BUT REFUSED!

Tragic, but Starfleet Medical doesn’t cover assimilation.
During Best of Both Worlds II, the entire Enterprise crew risked their lives to reclaim a Borgified Picard, with Beverly successfully removing their hideous implants form his ravaged body. But in First Contact, Picard tells his crew to shoot assimilated crewmen, muttering, “You’ll be doing them a favor…” Later, Picard himself blows a freshly assimilated crew member away. How quickly they forget.

“Visit scenic Montana. First with Warp Drive.”
How on Earth do the Vulcans know where to land after “picking up” a warp signature in space?

“We’re losing you in the tunnel.”
Riker reacts rather nonchalantly after he’s unable to reestablish contact with the Enterprise after Picard mysteriously returns to the ship, something obviously on his mind Like he’s not gonna consult with his first officer after the Borg have wiped out history.

“They must have used the carpool lane.”
Wasn’t the Romulan Neutral Zone supposed to be so far away from Earth that even subspace communiques took hours to be received (see TOS’s Balance of Terror)? Not only did Picard and Co. listen to the battle “live”, they warped back to earth in plenty of time to join the fray!

“What kind of Klingon do you think I am?”
While Jerry Goldsmith’s Klingon theme is one of his best, its use is entirely inappropriate for Worf, a distinguished Starfleet officer.

“Land? What do you mean ‘land?’”
How exactly do Cochrane, Geordi and Riker manage to return safely to Montana in a modified ICBM without any visible wings or landing gear? Perhaps they popped the capsule, splashed down in the Pacific, then caught a connecting flight. Of course, that means Cochrane abandoned his life’s work to drift in space.

Moby Dick? Never heard of it. Is it out on video?”
Special scorn must be reserved for scribes Brannon Braga and Ron Moore for ripping off one of the best thematic elements from Wrath of Khan, badly. So badly in fact, that they have to have Alfre Woodard spell it out for us in case we TV-addled illiterates don’t get it.

“If you can’t stand the heat… stay out of the bar.”
Whose bright idea was it to build a watering hole mere yards from a liquid-fueled missile launch cite (sic)? Aren’t there zoning laws for this kind of thing?

“Not the work, not the work… the presentation!”
What, exactly, is the market for a non-reusable warp-drive spacecraft in the aftermath of the biggest war in Earth’s history? Who are your customers, what are they paying with, and where do they expect to go?

“Thank God for polyester!”
Plasma coolant dissolves flesh on contact, but doesn’t effect clothing? Talk about your miracle fibers!

“Put one foot in front of the other and soon you’ll be walkin’ on the hull…”
So the Borg are building an “interplexing beacon” on the deflector dish of the Enterprise-E. Time is of the essence. Let’s just WALK in zero gravity with magnetic boots hundreds of yards across the hull of the ship instead of using an unassimilated transporter or one of those nifty rocket packs from The Motion Picture.

“Before I kill you Mr. Bond, I’m going to reveal my master plan in great detail so that you can escape in a few moments, destroy my life’s work, then brutally kill me.”
Why go back in time with the entire Federation fleet watching instead of doing it in private, say back in the Delta Quadrant? That way, they could travel back to Earth and Starfleet wouldn’t be the wiser.

What ever happened to the collective’s work ethic?
The Borg used to be so thorough they could beam over to a starship and within seconds make off with its captain. So why do they do such a half-assed job destroying the warp ship? They take a few potshots from orbits and call it quits.

“Okay, we’ll do it the hard way…”
Like Q, why not simply go back to the dawn of life on Earth and make sure those proteins are never formed. Heck, don’t even bother with the warp ship, just blow up the Vulcan survey team!

Because it’s there.
For that matter, why are the Borg wasting time with Earth anyway? There’s at least a dozen other Alpha Quadrant factions more powerful with better technology. How about a few Gorn drones to keep the collective happy?

“If at first you don’t succeed, keep doing the same things that caused you to fail in the first place.”
The Borg got their asses kicked the last time they sent a single cube to attack the Federation… so they send another one. By itself. With their Queen in the same vulnerable position. Again.

“Don’t bother me with details.”
Bad enough she was shown in flashback on the ill-fated Borg cube with a strangely forgetful Picard in The Best of Both Worlds, but how, exactly, did the Borg Queen escape that cube’s destruction? And don’t give us that “three-dimensional thinking” crap.

“Yeah, but he looks so good in that tank-top.”
Because of past experience, the Borg Queen should know better than to let ol’ Johnny Picard run around the ship without adult supervision, assimilating him first. After all, he just causes loads of trouble.

“But the one with the solid matter setting costs so much more.”
The Borg’s sophisticated personal energy shields can stop type-3 phaser rifle blasts, but are ineffective against knife blades and Tommy gun slugs.

Well, at least Picard knows she’s not a natural blonde.
Okay, the Borg have you cornered. You decide to duck into the holodeck and escape. But not before taking the time to change into period costume.

Girls just wanna have fun.
Millions of worlds devastated. Billions of beings assimilated. All to produce a cybernetic bondage queen with interchangeable parts who wants to mate with an android? No wonder the Borg King gets more per hour.

It’s amazing what a good analyst can do.
Data almost burned out his positronic brain when his emotion chip ran amok in Generations. But now he can turn it on and off with one jerk of his head.

“It didn’t seem important at the time.”
What, because of the Borg’s lightning fast reflexes, no one had time to tap their com-badges and call a security alert during the early stages of the Enterprise’s assimilation?

They must still be using the Pentium chip in the 24th century.
The Enterprise-D had the capability to simultaneously keep track of the movements of every man, woman and child on board – but the Enterprise-E can’t detect the presence of an ever-growing legion of hostile aliens who actually begin physically altering the ship.

They didn’t book enough in advance to get the group rate.
In past episodes of TNG, we’ve seen the Enterprise-D evacuate hundreds of colonists in minutes. Why not beam the invading Borgs into space the moment they were detected on board?

Starfleet, however, doesn’t mind playing overtime.
Who exactly gets the honor of retrieving all those lifepods and putting them back on the ship?

The AMC Pacer lives!
What’s with all those funky looking starships in the opening battle? Ever since Voyager started straying away from the Classic Starfleet design, it seems like all you need are some nacelles and a deflector dish to be in the fleet.

The Pinto lives!
Someone should investigate Starfleet’s contractors. One hit from a Borg disruptor and most starships burst into flame. So much for Shelby’s Starfleet Strength upgrades. No wonder she wasn’t in the movie.

“Yeah, but you should have been here yesterday when we pummeled the Jem Hadar fleet!”
The Defiant was originally constructed to effectively stand up to the Borg. So much for that military brain trust.

“This is Admiral Nechayev. I’m not home right now, but if you’ll leave your name and number…”
So Picard swoops in and takes command of the fleet. What happened to all those hard-assed Starfleet admirals that ordered him off the battlefield in the first place? Were they all on the “Admiral’s Ship”?

“I don’t understand, Her horoscopes are always dead on.”
Deanna Troi, whose awesome empathic powers enable her to feel the emotions of giant space-going jellyfish, at a distance of thousands of kilometers, can’t figure out who Zefrem Cochrane is when he’s standing ten feet away from her in an empty bar?

“You realize what this means don’t you? We can find out if O.J. really did it!”
Judging from their effortless return from the 24th century, the Enterprise-E can now apparently time-travel at will.

“Okay Spock. You distract Edith while I hurl her under the wheels of that oncoming truck.”
In TOS, the Enterprise crew was creative and subtle when preserving history. But in First Contact, they’re reduced to shooting Cochrane in the back, then strapping his paralyzed ass in a missile nose cone.

“And then you crash on this planetoid, and then you meet the companion, and then you don’t age for the next 150 years…”
Unlike Trek heroes of yore who delicately made their way through history for fear of polluting the time line, Riker and Geordi casually reveal key moments in the future to anyone within earshot before hitching a ride on one of the most important spaceflights in history. And everyone of else wants to shake hands with every historical figure they come across. Guess they’ve never run afoul of those two guys from temporal investigations.

“At least he doesn’t like country.”
Why does everyone in these movies listen to album-oriented rock? Apparently you could only get KLSX during WWIII.

“Fallout? What fallout?”
The amazing toll WWIII, with its 600 million dead, took upon the planet Earth apparently had no effect on the environment surrounding Montana’s idyllic, ICBM-equipped summer camp.

That’s what happens when you go union.
Once, the Borg would take uniforms and communicators off before assimilating Starfleet officers. Now they just slap on a second coat. Talk about shoddy workmanship.

It’s just a flesh wound.
Data suffered severe damage when impaled by hostile villagers in Thine Own Self. Now, unlike the Borg themselves, he shrugs off bullets like he’s the Man of Steel. Well, wait a minute…

“I had a lot on my mind at the time.”
Gosh, no mention of Picard’s empathic link to the collective was made in the episodes I, Borg or Descent, both occurring after his human physiology was restored.

“Hey, some things you just never forget.”
How come Worf, stationed at Deep Space Nine for two years, knows the command codes for a brand new starship he’s never before stepped foot on?

“Having a great time on Risa, with you were here.”
So none of the other Starfleet officers from DS9 came along on the Defiant with Worf for the big party? What, only UPN shows get a cameo in the movie?

“There goes the neighborhood.”
The people of Resurrection, Montana reacted rather casually to the sudden presence of dozens of strange engineers with unfamiliar equipment in their vicinity, especially in light of Lily’s paranoia regarding the Eastern Coalition (run, perhaps, by Lloyd Bochner).

Talk about separation anxiety.
In seven years, TNG visited Earth only a handful of times. But, as in every other Trek feature, it seems we have to visit the homeworld at least once. Whatever happened to “Boldly going where no one has gone before?”

They must have spent it all on the script…
Hey, let’s make a $40-million movie and set the majority of it on the ship! (it’s a “bottle” movie!)

“It’s a good thing you done that Anthony, it’s a real good thing.”
Not since Commodore Decker marooned his crew on the third planet of system L-374 has any Starfleet captain displayed such monumental lapses in judgement. Rather than preserve the timeline, Picard opts instead to literally maroon what’s left of his defeated crew in a post-apocalyptic past somewhere on a South Seas island hoping they’’ll all just “get out of history’s way” while he trots off in his tank top to rescue a machine. Imagine Riker’s surprise after discovering someone’s scuttled the new Enterprise without bothering to tell him.

“I don’t know, I’m makin’ this up as I go…”
And just how exactly did Picard expect Data to leave the ship once he was liberated from the wiles of the Borg Queen? Jump?!?

“Back away slowly toward the ship and keep smiling.”
Considering how intelligent the Vulcan’s are (including their impressive command of the English language), they probably would start looking for another planet after traveling light years and then having to watch the “Father of the Federation” stomp around to “Ooby Dooby” and drink his homemade p!sswater.

“Is it coming into focus now?”
The film’s blurry opening credits had all the resonance of a trip to the optometrist…
User avatar
Vympel
Spetsnaz
Spetsnaz
Posts: 29312
Joined: 2002-07-19 01:08am
Location: Sydney Australia

Post by Vympel »

Bwahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahhaha

LOL :lol:

Funny. Damn funny.
Like Legend of Galactic Heroes? Please contribute to http://gineipaedia.com/
Post Reply