That Stupid Connie at W359!

[RayCav of ASVS]

Could somebody forward a rational explanation of why of all things a stupid Connie was there?!?!

I would just want to take the "starship filler" route and declare it "non-canon"

[Darth Wong]

Could somebody forward a rational explanation of why of all things a stupid Connie was there?!?!

More evidence of the feeble state of Starfleet, that they had to pull 80-year old ships out of mothballs in order to scrounge up a 40-ship fleet. No wonder they got their asses kicked so badly.

[Stormbringer]

Could somebody forward a rational explanation of why of all things a stupid Connie was there?!?!

I would just want to take the "starship filler" route and declare it "non-canon"

The best explanation is that it's either a training ship or was a ship brought out oof mothballs.

And don't knock the best ship ever produced by trek.

[Master of Ossus]

It demonstrates still further that SF simply did not have the thousands of warships that many Trekkies envision.

[Evil Jerk]

Perhaps they spent too much time listening to the Uber-Connie of Doom crowd and thought that it was many times more powerful than any of their other ships..

[Stormbringer]

Could somebody forward a rational explanation of why of all things a stupid Connie was there?!?!

More evidence of the feeble state of Starfleet, that they had to pull 80-year old ships out of mothballs in order to scrounge up a 40-ship fleet. No wonder they got their asses kicked so badly.

Considering that the state of the art Galaxy-class uses stuff Scotty wrote the regs for, I don't think it's too sad. They're ship advances up until DS9 and Voyager were at a pathetically slow rate.

[RayCav of ASVS]

Could somebody forward a rational explanation of why of all things a stupid Connie was there?!?!

More evidence of the feeble state of Starfleet, that they had to pull 80-year old ships out of mothballs in order to scrounge up a 40-ship fleet. No wonder they got their asses kicked so badly.

Now, um, Lord Wong, as perhaps one of the most rational beings in the world...that would seem like a rational explanation, but its not...

If I'm not mistaken, TOS era phasers cannot penetrate TNG era sheilding, at least Connie size vs. Galaxy size, let alone Connie vs Cube. I think Starfleet would know this, and other people (Ossus etc) have said that it would be unlikely for Starfleet to send it towards the Cube regardless. It's like sending a Volkswagen against a Panzer division, it's just plain suicidal and it just gets people killed.

As I've said I'd just like to discount all evidence - including visual - that there was a Connie there at all.

[RayCav of ASVS]

Could somebody forward a rational explanation of why of all things a stupid Connie was there?!?!

I would just want to take the "starship filler" route and declare it "non-canon"

The best explanation is that it's either a training ship or was a ship brought out oof mothballs.

And don't knock the best ship ever produced by trek.

Hey, I actually think it's the best Trek ship ever too. I just hate seeing them get blown to bits, and in particularly Starfleet needlessly sacraficing one, hence my strong believe to discount evidence in this case.

[Patrick Degan]

Actually, it may be that what we saw was a variant on the Constitution-class from the general period. If you recall (though it's hard to spot) in the episode "Booby Trap", Geordi recreates the Utopia Planetia engine design lab on the holodeck. In one scene, there is a shot of Geordi at the main console and in the foreground is a desktop model of what appears to be a variant-Constitution; the warp nacelles are mounted at a horizontal rather than a vertical attitude (like those on the Stargazer) and the saucer section features several open bays which appear to be sensor arrays. This could represent an update on the Constitution design built sometime between 2301 and 2366 and might have been the ship we saw in the wreckage field at Wolf 359 rather than an 80-year old antique hastily rushed back into service. There is enough precedent for this surmise considering the endurance of the Miranda, Oberth, and Excelsior designs in Starfleet service through the 2360s.

[Darth Wong]

Now, um, Lord Wong, as perhaps one of the most rational beings in the world...that would seem like a rational explanation, but its not...

If I'm not mistaken, TOS era phasers cannot penetrate TNG era sheilding, at least Connie size vs. Galaxy size, let alone Connie vs Cube. I think Starfleet would know this, and other people (Ossus etc) have said that it would be unlikely for Starfleet to send it towards the Cube regardless. It's like sending a Volkswagen against a Panzer division, it's just plain suicidal and it just gets people killed.

Unless the superiority of the new ships is not as great as the propagandists would have you believe. Mind you, an old ship (which presumably has not been properly maintained over the last 80 years) may not be all that suitable for battle, but it would make sense in light of the Federation's feeble fleet strength. I suspect that the majority of Starfleet's ships are science vessels, freighters, couriers, etc. at this time, and that they started converting them to half-assed warships for the Dominion War, hence their pathetic battle performance (look at how many JH ships the Defiant could take out by itself, and then look at how whole fleets of 100 ships or more were decimated by JH ships).

[Stormbringer]

Unless the superiority of the new ships is not as great as the propagandists would have you believe. Mind you, an old ship (which presumably has not been properly maintained over the last 80 years) may not be all that suitable for battle, but it would make sense in light of the Federation's feeble fleet strength.

That assumes a few facts not proven:

• That is of course assuming all Constitutions were retired at the same time as the Ent-A.
  
  And that it wasn't some sort of training ship and hence maintained.
  
  If mothballed, that Starfleet didn't maintain them at all.

I still think that the Connie was sent with little hope of her returning. They needed ships and the Connies were touugh ships if not as combat capable as newer ships. Given the pathetic size of their fleet they probably scraped up everything capable of putting up a decent fight.

[Alyeska]

Considering the number of expirmental and rare ship classes seen in BOBW, I have no problem with the idea that we saw a Consititution Variant, or even a Kitbash of ships.

Here is a set of pictures on every identified ship at Wolf-359.

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/artic ... ll-ben.gif

As you can see there are several prototype designs as well as Galaxy variations.

[Alyeska]

Note, it lists a consititution because of the hull shot, however that is not firmly established becaue of all the other ship designs in there.

[Stormbringer]

Considering the number of expirmental and rare ship classes seen in BOBW, I have no problem with the idea that we saw a Consititution Variant, or even a Kitbash of ships.

Here is a set of pictures on every identified ship at Wolf-359.

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/artic ... ll-ben.gif

As you can see there are several prototype designs as well as Galaxy variations.

Which only iindicates how desperate they were. I mean, no military with a chance in hell, would throw test beds and protoptypes into battle.

[Alyeska]

Considering the number of expirmental and rare ship classes seen in BOBW, I have no problem with the idea that we saw a Consititution Variant, or even a Kitbash of ships.

Here is a set of pictures on every identified ship at Wolf-359.

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/artic ... ll-ben.gif

As you can see there are several prototype designs as well as Galaxy variations.

Which only iindicates how desperate they were. I mean, no military with a chance in hell, would throw test beds and protoptypes into battle.

Never said that SF was smart during BOBW. Hell, Riker saved them of all people.

[Darth Wong]

Never said that SF was smart during BOBW. Hell, Riker saved them of all people.

I don't think it's a matter of them being smart or stupid; it's a matter of them obviously having a very small number of ships to call upon. They said they were dredging up every ship they could find; this merely proves how desperate they were for ships.

[Alyeska]

Never said that SF was smart during BOBW. Hell, Riker saved them of all people.

I don't think it's a matter of them being smart or stupid; it's a matter of them obviously having a very small number of ships to call upon. They said they were dredging up every ship they could find; this merely proves how desperate they were for ships.

Yes, they were dredging up every ship they could SPARE. They still had other things they had to contend with. Pull to many ships from to many places and you might defeat the Borg, but the Breen, Tholians, Cardassians, or Romulans could come a knocking and cause a little trouble. Only reason the Klingons were requested was because of their allied status. Only reason the Romulans were even considered was because of the past history the Borg had with the Romulans.

[Darth Wong]

Yes, they were dredging up every ship they could SPARE. They still had other things they had to contend with. Pull to many ships from to many places and you might defeat the Borg, but the Breen, Tholians, Cardassians, or Romulans could come a knocking and cause a little trouble.

Oh, puh-lease. When you're facing the most deadly enemy you've ever known who's pushing into the heart of your territory, you deliberately risk losing your capital world EARTH because you're worried the Tholians might grab some outland territory?

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

Could somebody forward a rational explanation of why of all things a stupid Connie was there?!?!

More evidence of the feeble state of Starfleet, that they had to pull 80-year old ships out of mothballs in order to scrounge up a 40-ship fleet. No wonder they got their asses kicked so badly.

Now, um, Lord Wong, as perhaps one of the most rational beings in the world...that would seem like a rational explanation, but its not...

If I'm not mistaken, TOS era phasers cannot penetrate TNG era sheilding, at least Connie size vs. Galaxy size, let alone Connie vs Cube. I think

Where do you get this? I don't think I've ever seen that said before. And everything done in the TOS era is apparently still widespread and watertight in the TNG era, so you might see why I'm rather skeptical of this statement...

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

Could somebody forward a rational explanation of why of all things a stupid Connie was there?!?!

I would just want to take the "starship filler" route and declare it "non-canon"

The best explanation is that it's either a training ship or was a ship brought out oof mothballs.

And don't knock the best ship ever produced by trek. :evil:

About the only thing the Connie was good for was taking hits. The ships had large turning circles and very limited arcs of fire. They may have been durable, but they weren't good warships. Even the Galaxy-class made for a better warship. It is bigger, yet it has the same turning circle, and much better firing arcs.

Starfleet probably dispatched that Constitution because they were so good at taking damage and not losing critical systems. They were likely hoping to outlast the cube, or overwhelm it with superior numbers.

It was a shame they were wrong though. And that Constitution held up much better than a GCS would've. At least they got part of it back.

[Moonshadow]

If it was a 24th Century Connie then they might have given it better weapons. Also i think (even in its crippled condition) The Ent-Refit manuvered pretty good in ST:WOK durring the Nebula battle.

[Alyeska]

Yes, they were dredging up every ship they could SPARE. They still had other things they had to contend with. Pull to many ships from to many places and you might defeat the Borg, but the Breen, Tholians, Cardassians, or Romulans could come a knocking and cause a little trouble.

Oh, puh-lease. When you're facing the most deadly enemy you've ever known who's pushing into the heart of your territory, you deliberately risk losing your capital world EARTH because you're worried the Tholians might grab some outland territory?

Or just maybe the ships guarding the Tholian border might also be a little to far away. Do remember how "slow" warp drive is. Furthermore, the Galaxy class was the fastest ship at the time (with a possible exception for the Nebula, Constelation, and Chenyne, but they were in just as limited numbers as the GCS apparently) and of all the fast ships, they were vastly outnumbered by the much slower ships in the Fed Fleet. Hell, it would seem the Feds grabed the fastest ships they could find. There was 1 three engined ship and 3 four engined ships that made it to Wolf 359. Starfleet didn't have vast amounts of time to prepare. With regions of the Federation being so remote that it takes hours for communications, and those are on certain Borders, I have no doubt they got what they could get really fast.

[Vympel]

Can someone explain to me the nacelle-speed relation?

If a ship has three nacelles, is it therefore faster than one with two? Does the arrangement of the nacelles effect speed?

[Alyeska]

Can someone explain to me the nacelle-speed relation?

If a ship has three nacelles, is it therefore faster than one with two? Does the arrangement of the nacelles effect speed?

Well, I think the general accepted theory is that with more Nacelle's you can hold your speed for longer. Many Fed ships can achieve a similar top speed, but can't hold it for very long. 4 Engines would allow you to achieve a reasonable top speed without as much effort to any single engine. The downside is that 4 engines are going to eat through your fuel supplies much quicker.

[Stormbringer]

Yes, they were dredging up every ship they could SPARE. They still had other things they had to contend with. Pull to many ships from to many places and you might defeat the Borg, but the Breen, Tholians, Cardassians, or Romulans could come a knocking and cause a little trouble.

Oh, puh-lease. When you're facing the most deadly enemy you've ever known who's pushing into the heart of your territory, you deliberately risk losing your capital world EARTH because you're worried the Tholians might grab some outland territory?

If that's the case then they are stupid instead of desperate.

If it's not then they're weak and desperate.

Pick one.