The Sovereign (E-E)

[Vympel]

Ok some questions about the E-E

Where do we get our information about it?

1: Are its phasers more powerful?
2: Is the Quantum Torpedo launcher a turret?
3: Does it have Photon Torpedo tubes?
4: Does it have rear photon or rear quantum torpedo tubes?
5: Does it carry families?
6: Where is the Captain's Yacht (the E-D was docked underneath the saucer according to the TM- though was it ever seen in TNG?)
7: Are its shields superior?

Does our information come from canon or speculation?

[Knife]

As for cannon, all I can say is the Captains Yacht is on the ventral side of the sauser section just forward of the weapons array. Watching ST I you can watch it undock and fly away from that location.

The rest? Beats me. Since the only thing cannon on ST is the movies and I do not recall any dialog that would answere those questions. But I'm not a super duper ST dialog type guy.

[Tsyroc]

Ok some questions about the E-E

Where do we get our information about it?


5: Does it carry families?

That's a good question. I think one of the magazines might have recently put out some technical information on it but I'd say that for the purposes of this site the best bet is to speculate. Unfortunately, to me it appears that FC makes the E-E look like a real upgrade from most of the rest of the Federation ships, but ST:I kind of craps on that in my book.

As for the families question, all I can say is that we did not see anybody that looked remotely like a civilian when E-E was abandoned during FC. I'm sure we would have seen them if they were there because they would have been easy marks for the Borg to aquire more drones.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Ok some questions about the E-E

Where do we get our information about it?

1: Are its phasers more powerful?
2: Is the Quantum Torpedo launcher a turret?
3: Does it have Photon Torpedo tubes?
4: Does it have rear photon or rear quantum torpedo tubes?
5: Does it carry families?
6: Where is the Captain's Yacht (the E-D was docked underneath the saucer according to the TM- though was it ever seen in TNG?)
7: Are its shields superior?

Does our information come from canon or speculation?

1 - Unknown
2 - It appears to be
3 - Yes, it fired a couple at the borg tractor beam emitter that was holding the Defiant
4 - Yes to QTorp, in ST: I we witnessed it fire rear QTorp.
5 - No, we never saw one civilian during ST:FC or ST: I
6 - Right in front of the QTorp IIRC, and no we never saw the Yacht from the E-D
7 - Unknown.......but it seemed to hold up just fine against a Borg Cube...NO CONSOLES EXPLODED!

Consoles exploded in ST: I, but we can attribute that to the E-E not being configured for operations inside the Briar Patch.

[arctic_series]

Ok some questions about the E-E

Where do we get our information about it?

1: Are its phasers more powerful?
2: Is the Quantum Torpedo launcher a turret?
3: Does it have Photon Torpedo tubes?
4: Does it have rear photon or rear quantum torpedo tubes?
5: Does it carry families?
6: Where is the Captain's Yacht (the E-D was docked underneath the saucer according to the TM- though was it ever seen in TNG?)
7: Are its shields superior?

Does our information come from canon or speculation?

more powerful than what ?

[Kamakazie Sith]

Ok some questions about the E-E

Where do we get our information about it?

1: Are its phasers more powerful?
2: Is the Quantum Torpedo launcher a turret?
3: Does it have Photon Torpedo tubes?
4: Does it have rear photon or rear quantum torpedo tubes?
5: Does it carry families?
6: Where is the Captain's Yacht (the E-D was docked underneath the saucer according to the TM- though was it ever seen in TNG?)
7: Are its shields superior?

Does our information come from canon or speculation?

more powerful than what ?

He probably is asking if they are more powerful than the phaser on a GCS.

[arctic_series]

ok then. lets see :

1. yes they are. galaxy's use type x while sovereigns use type xii

2. yes the quantum torp launcher is a turret that seems to pop out when it fires.

3. it's supposed to have 2 seperate photon torpedo tubes facing forward and 2 facing backward

4. rear torp tubes are photon only.

5. doesn't look like it carried families.

6. captains yacht is always directly under the saucer

7. of course it's shields are superior, no point in making a ship with identical stats but looks a bit different now is there ? sovereign class is supposed to be the new flagship, so galaxy's takes a step down.

[Vympel]

3 - Yes, it fired a couple at the borg tractor beam emitter that was holding the Defiant

You sure about that one? As I recall, the Enterprise zooms in and uses its bulk to prevent the Borg Cube from finally destroying the Defiant, but I don't remember photon torpedoes in that bit.

1. yes they are. galaxy's use type x while sovereigns use type xii

2. yes the quantum torp launcher is a turret that seems to pop out when it fires.

3. it's supposed to have 2 seperate photon torpedo tubes facing forward and 2 facing backward

4. rear torp tubes are photon only.

5. doesn't look like it carried families.

6. captains yacht is always directly under the saucer

7. of course it's shields are superior, no point in making a ship with identical stats but looks a bit different now is there ? sovereign class is supposed to be the new flagship, so galaxy's takes a step down.

1: Source for Type XII versus Type X?
2: Pop out? You don't mean retractable do you? It is mounted on a sort of protrusion, but has it turned and fired? What is the source for saying its a turret?
3: I can see the two at the front (on the engineering hull, underneath the nav deflector, correct?) but I have yet to spot the two at the back.
4: But in ST:I we see a pair of quantums fired from the rear at the Son'a ships chasing the Enterprise-E.
5: Yeah I agree
6: Cool
7: Superior strength is a given, but are they special in any other ways?

[Kamakazie Sith]

ok then. lets see :

1. yes they are. galaxy's use type x while sovereigns use type xii

2. yes the quantum torp launcher is a turret that seems to pop out when it fires.

3. it's supposed to have 2 seperate photon torpedo tubes facing forward and 2 facing backward

4. rear torp tubes are photon only.

5. doesn't look like it carried families.

6. captains yacht is always directly under the saucer

7. of course it's shields are superior, no point in making a ship with identical stats but looks a bit different now is there ? sovereign class is supposed to be the new flagship, so galaxy's takes a step down.

1 - Not backed by canon

2 - Umm not that I have noticed

3 - We've never actually seen the tubes fired, though some people claim to have seen the launchers. I personally only can see the QTorp turret launcher.

4 - The torp in ST: I seemed to be QTorp

5 - Agreed

6 - Agreed

7 - Yeah but that would be logical and you should know that logic has no place in these debates.

[Kamakazie Sith]

You sure about that one? As I recall, the Enterprise zooms in and uses its bulk to prevent the Borg Cube from finally destroying the Defiant, but I don't remember photon torpedoes in that bit.

Yes, the tractor emitter that seems to be tearing the Defiant up is destroyed by two photons that come in from the same direction the E-E comes from.

[Alyeska]

Ok some questions about the E-E

Where do we get our information about it?

1: Are its phasers more powerful?

Canon wise, probably. The E-Es phasers were able to penetrate the shields of the Sona destroyer with no problem. Offical information indicates that it has the same phasers (type-12) as DS9 and we also saw DS9 use its phasers to pass through Klingon shields and open holes for torpedoes to strike the hull.

2: Is the Quantum Torpedo launcher a turret?

Others believe so, buit given that we know the Captains Yacht is behind it, probably not. We can see the actual exit port on the launcher and there is no evidence that it can turn in any way.

3: Does it have Photon Torpedo tubes?

Canonically yes. We see it fire torpedoes in Insurrection. Problem though, there is no identifyable point for them to have fired from. Offical information also says the E-E has torpedo launchers and the points they indicate look an awful lot like launchers in First Contact. First Contact also indicated a photon torpedo launcher on the topside of the saucer section, but again there is no identifyable tube right there so its possible something else behind the camera fired.

4: Does it have rear photon or rear quantum torpedo tubes?

Yes, Insurrection shows it firing a read torpedo launcher from the top side. Offical information and hull shots indicate 2 lower torpedo launchers. There is no available information on a rear QT launcher.

5: Does it carry families?

We have seen a fair amount of the E-E in its two movies and there was no indication of families. The ship has a darker atmosphere, more militaristic looks to its coridors, and during the evacuation there was no evidence of families at all.

6: Where is the Captain's Yacht (the E-D was docked underneath the saucer according to the TM- though was it ever seen in TNG?)

As by Insurrection we see the Captains Yacht is located directly behind and slightly above the QT launcher.

7: Are its shields superior?

"Most advanced ship in the fleet"

A strong possibility. It has the energy generation to power Type-12 phasers (same as DS9) and it took repeated torpedo strikes in Insurrection without major damage. It shruged off Borg weaponry without major concern.

Does our information come from canon or speculation?

As listed previously it is a combination of canon, offical, and logical speculation.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Ok some questions about the E-E

Where do we get our information about it?

1: Are its phasers more powerful?

Yes. It did more damage to the Cube then the Defiant. The Defiant has more powerful weapons then the Oddessy (GCS)

2: Is the Quantum Torpedo launcher a turret?

Unknown. Based on the design, it would make sense.

3: Does it have Photon Torpedo tubes?

None seen.

4: Does it have rear photon or rear quantum torpedo tubes?

A rear Quantum torpedo launcher is seen in ST:IX.

5: Does it carry families?

None seen.

6: Where is the Captain's Yacht (the E-D was docked underneath the saucer according to the TM- though was it ever seen in TNG?)

Seen under the saucer in ST:IX. The captain's yacht on the E-D has never been seen.*

7: Are its shields superior?

Yes. It's larger size and battleship role would indicate that. And it flew right at the Cube the whole time in the battle of Sector 001. Only damage was shields were briefly down.

Does our information come from canon or speculation?

Mostly canon.



*An energy beam was seen firing from where the Captain's Yacht should be in "Encounter at Farpoint." Since it was never seen again, I speculate it was ineffective or had some sort of problem that led to its removal and the placing of a Yacht.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

"Most advanced ship in the fleet"

A strong possibility. It has the energy generation to power Type-12 phasers (same as DS9) and it took repeated torpedo strikes in Insurrection without major damage. It shruged off Borg weaponry without major concern.

It lost its shields, though IIRC it was said the Borg transported "while the shields were down" indicating they were quickly repaired. And it was in far better condition then other ships facing a cube (the Akira in ST:VIII which was nailed and disintigrated by a Borg hit, the Melbourne (the ECS) in BOBW which got hit by the Tractor/Weapon beam and immediatly its saucer section was ripped apart.

[Howedar]

3: Does it have Photon Torpedo tubes?

Black, below and behind the deflector.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

3: Does it have Photon Torpedo tubes?

http://www.shiporama.org/Images/Sovereign/1701e-47.jpg
Black, below and behind the deflector.

Ah. It appears the E-E has double launchers.

[Howedar]

Yes, meaning there is at least the turret-thing, the double launchers, and some sort of rearward-facing launcher(s).

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Yes, meaning there is at least the turret-thing, the double launchers, and some sort of rearward-facing launcher(s).

Were the rear torpedoes quantum or photon?

[Sidious]

You sure about that one? As I recall, the Enterprise zooms in and uses its bulk to prevent the Borg Cube from finally destroying the Defiant, but I don't remember photon torpedoes in that bit.

If memory serves, we see the borg cube holding the Defiant with a tractor beam. 2 photon torpedeos explode against the borg cube's hull, the tractor beam shuts off and the E-E flys between the cube and the defiant.

So we never actually see the E-E fire the photon torps but it certainly LOOKS like they came from the E-E.

[Alyeska]

"Most advanced ship in the fleet"

A strong possibility. It has the energy generation to power Type-12 phasers (same as DS9) and it took repeated torpedo strikes in Insurrection without major damage. It shruged off Borg weaponry without major concern.

It lost its shields, though IIRC it was said the Borg transported "while the shields were down" indicating they were quickly repaired. And it was in far better condition then other ships facing a cube (the Akira in ST:VIII which was nailed and disintigrated by a Borg hit, the Melbourne (the ECS) in BOBW which got hit by the Tractor/Weapon beam and immediatly its saucer section was ripped apart.

We do not hear about its shields untill after the E-E has traveled into the past. I was under the impression that the E-E lost its shields when it passed through the temporal anomoly. That would explain why it was able to destroy the Borg Sphere so easily (it lost its shields as well).

[Alyeska]

Yes. It did more damage to the Cube then the Defiant. The Defiant has more powerful weapons then the Oddessy (GCS)

That is not exactly true. We only saw the Oddessy fire 3 phaser shots IIRC and it was up against 3 Bugs. It hit one of them twice. This was back before Starfleet was setup to go against the Dominion.

Unknown. Based on the design, it would make sense.

Based on design, a turret is unlikely. Examine the launcher in comparison to the Captains Yacht.

A rear Quantum torpedo launcher is seen in ST:IX.

Incorrect. We saw a rear Photon Torpedo launcher in ST:9

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Yes. It did more damage to the Cube then the Defiant. The Defiant has more powerful weapons then the Oddessy (GCS)

That is not exactly true. We only saw the Oddessy fire 3 phaser shots IIRC and it was up against 3 Bugs. It hit one of them twice. This was back before Starfleet was setup to go against the Dominion.

I doubt they only fired 3 shots. That's unbelievably stupid.

Unknown. Based on the design, it would make sense.

Based on design, a turret is unlikely. Examine the launcher in comparison to the Captains Yacht.

So they've gone from Movie-TNG neck launcher to TOS saucer launcher for no reason. I wonder why...

A rear Quantum torpedo launcher is seen in ST:IX.

Incorrect. We saw a rear Photon Torpedo launcher in ST:9

You are correct. The torpedo is not quantumish (ha!)

[Alyeska]

I doubt they only fired 3 shots. That's unbelievably stupid.

Agreed, however it does take some sustained hits to kill a bug. If you look at the damage that Galor class ships cause to Bugs and BoPs then compare known Galor capabilities to the GCS, one starts to wonder. I personally think the captain of the Oddessy was arogant and stupid, why else did he almost take the civilians with him?

So they've gone from Movie-TNG neck launcher to TOS saucer launcher for no reason. I wonder why...

After a close up inspection of the launcher from the Captains Yacht scene from Insurrection, I have changed my opinion. It seems to have a rotating section that gives the launcher a 180 degree horizontal swivel point.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

I doubt they only fired 3 shots. That's unbelievably stupid.

Agreed, however it does take some sustained hits to kill a bug. If you look at the damage that Galor class ships cause to Bugs and BoPs then compare known Galor capabilities to the GCS, one starts to wonder. I personally think the captain of the Oddessy was arogant and stupid, why else did he almost take the civilians with him?

Riker ain't looking so stupid...

After a close up inspection of the launcher from the Captains Yacht scene from Insurrection, I have changed my opinion. It seems to have a rotating section that gives the launcher a 180 degree horizontal swivel point.

I'll check in the morning.

[Nathan F]

Ok some questions about the E-E

Where do we get our information about it?

1: Are its phasers more powerful?
2: Is the Quantum Torpedo launcher a turret?
3: Does it have Photon Torpedo tubes?
4: Does it have rear photon or rear quantum torpedo tubes?
5: Does it carry families?
6: Where is the Captain's Yacht (the E-D was docked underneath the saucer according to the TM- though was it ever seen in TNG?)
7: Are its shields superior?

Does our information come from canon or speculation?

1: EntE has 12 Type XII phaser arrays, while the EntD had 11 Type X arrays. This means that the phasers are more powerful than the EntD, but less powerful than ships with higher rated phaser arrays.
2. Not sure, but i think so.
3. Photon torps can be launched from Quantum torp tubes, but not vice versa.
4. Yes
5. No
6. On the saucer directly below the bridge on the other side
7. Again, superior to some fed ships, but not all.

[Howedar]

http://www.shiporama.org/images/sovereign/1701e-59.jpg
http://www.shiporama.org/Images/Sovereign/1701e-24.jpg
I find it to be turret-like.