Analysis of USS Odyssey

[RayCav of ASVS]

Being the Warsie that I am I guess I'm going against the grain here but did the Odyssey really blow up because it was hit in the nacelle? It seemed to have taken a pretty good hit on the secondary hull and it could have just been that this initial hit penetrated engineering itself and disabled the core that way.

[Col. Crackpot]

the oddessy was hit by an attack ship moving like a bat at out hell. i'm sure fragments must have penetrated the hull punturing plasma conduits, maybe even compromising anti matter storage. Add that to the fact that thr structural integrity fields were already hurting from multiple hull breeches.

[Alyeska]

The Oddessy was struck by a Jem'Hadar attackship. This attackship exploded instantly upon impact at three points. Part of the Attackship spiraled off and struck the Nacell. Furthermore the Attackship struck near the engineering section, near the torpedo launcher, and impacted on the saucer section.

Thats FOUR strikes and your out for the GCS, especically an original design non-upgraded GCS.

[RayCav of ASVS]

The Oddessy was struck by a Jem'Hadar attackship. This attackship exploded instantly upon impact at three points. Part of the Attackship spiraled off and struck the Nacell. Furthermore the Attackship struck near the engineering section, near the torpedo launcher, and impacted on the saucer section.

Thats FOUR strikes and your out for the GCS, especically an original design non-upgraded GCS.

Actually I was trying to at least offer an alternate theory for the Odyssey. I'm trying to show that the Odyssey might not necessarily be inflicted with the "exploding core" syndrome, that it indeed took at least four heavy hits, as you pointed out.

[Col. Crackpot]

if there ever was a case for exploding core syndrome, this would be it. no doubt the Jem Hadar attack ship was accelerating at full impulse for several seconds. a ship that small has little inertia to overcome and would accelerate rapidly. I don't care what your ship is made of, if you are hit with a big chunk of metal, which just so happens to have its own anti matter reactor and stores of warheads, moving at a quarter to half the speed of light...you are indeed screwed

[Alyeska]

The Oddessy was struck by a Jem'Hadar attackship. This attackship exploded instantly upon impact at three points. Part of the Attackship spiraled off and struck the Nacell. Furthermore the Attackship struck near the engineering section, near the torpedo launcher, and impacted on the saucer section.

Thats FOUR strikes and your out for the GCS, especically an original design non-upgraded GCS.

Actually I was trying to at least offer an alternate theory for the Odyssey. I'm trying to show that the Odyssey might not necessarily be inflicted with the "exploding core" syndrome, that it indeed took at least four heavy hits, as you pointed out.

While I think the Nacelle hit, engineering hit, and near torpedo hit could have caused the damage, I don't think thats what killed the ship. When the Oddessy died the explosion originated from the deflector dish. First Contact already told us about a possible weakness of ships with the deflector dish.

[Darth Servo]

if there ever was a case for exploding core syndrome, this would be it. no doubt the Jem Hadar attack ship was accelerating at full impulse for several seconds. a ship that small has little inertia to overcome and would accelerate rapidly. I don't care what your ship is made of, if you are hit with a big chunk of metal, which just so happens to have its own anti matter reactor and stores of warheads, moving at a quarter to half the speed of light...you are indeed screwed

Except for the small detail that the little battle bug wasn't moving anywhere near c. More like a couple hundred m/s relative to the Oddessy tops

[Darth Servo]

if there ever was a case for exploding core syndrome, this would be it. no doubt the Jem Hadar attack ship was accelerating at full impulse for several seconds. a ship that small has little inertia to overcome and would accelerate rapidly. I don't care what your ship is made of, if you are hit with a big chunk of metal, which just so happens to have its own anti matter reactor and stores of warheads, moving at a quarter to half the speed of light...you are indeed screwed

Except for the small detail that the little battle bug wasn't moving anywhere near c. More like a couple hundred m/s relative to the Oddessy tops

[Col. Crackpot]

it's core breached against the hull of the oddessy (the captain diverted all shield power to weapons) and the torpedo stores. that type of explosion would accelerate the shattered twisted hull and debris into the oddessy.

[Darth Servo]

it's core breached against the hull of the oddessy (the captain diverted all shield power to weapons) and the torpedo stores. that type of explosion would accelerate the shattered twisted hull and debris into the oddessy.

Got anything to back that up with?

[Alyeska]

it's core breached against the hull of the oddessy (the captain diverted all shield power to weapons) and the torpedo stores. that type of explosion would accelerate the shattered twisted hull and debris into the oddessy.

I find that unlikely. The Attackship detonated instantly on impact at three seperate points on the ship.

[Dennis Toy]

Oddysey was destroyed in fact by the Jem'Hadar ships antimatter cooking the warp core and reacting with the matter in the hull. The Anti-Matter was released and reacted with the Odyssey's matter causing the explosion. This is actually analogous to what happened to the World Trade Center.

The Planes hit the building causing major structural damage. The buildings stood up allowing the people to escape. The fires cooked the steel structure causing the building to collapse.

[Enlightenment]

The Planes hit the building causing major structural damage. The buildings stood up allowing the people to escape. The fires cooked the steel structure causing the building to collapse.

A point of note here is that the vast majority--by far--of the heat produced in the WTC fires came from the contents of the building rather than the jet fuel. The jet fuel served as a source of mass ignition but did not produce anywhere near enough heat to compromise the building structure.

Another way of putting this is to say that both WTC towers would have collapsed in the event of an uncontained whole-floor fire ignited by something as simple as a carelessly dropped match. Think about that for a minute. Any fire, if allowed to grow to fully involve an entire floor, would have brought down the towers.

Suddenly the GCS' detonating warp core doesn't seem all that far out of place.

[Darth Servo]

Oddysey was destroyed in fact by the Jem'Hadar ships antimatter cooking the warp core and reacting with the matter in the hull. The Anti-Matter was released and reacted with the Odyssey's matter causing the explosion. This is actually analogous to what happened to the World Trade Center.

The Planes hit the building causing major structural damage. The buildings stood up allowing the people to escape. The fires cooked the steel structure causing the building to collapse.

Umm, where in Trek do they say the Dominion uses anti-matter as fuel? Just because the Federation uses it doesn't mean EVERYONE uses it.

[Darth Servo]

The Planes hit the building causing major structural damage. The buildings stood up allowing the people to escape. The fires cooked the steel structure causing the building to collapse.

A point of note here is that the vast majority--by far--of the heat produced in the WTC fires came from the contents of the building rather than the jet fuel. The jet fuel served as a source of mass ignition but did not produce anywhere near enough heat to compromise the building structure.

Another way of putting this is to say that both WTC towers would have collapsed in the event of an uncontained whole-floor fire ignited by something as simple as a carelessly dropped match. Think about that for a minute. Any fire, if allowed to grow to fully involve an entire floor, would have brought down the towers.

Suddenly the GCS' detonating warp core doesn't seem all that far out of place.

Except that a GCS doesn't have gravity pulling the upper decks down on it like the WTC did.

[Isolder74]

The Galaxy-Class seems to suffer from the Titanic/Hood Indestructability syndrom. AKA I'm big and bad so nothing can kill me.

[Alyeska]

The Galaxy-Class seems to suffer from the Titanic/Hood Indestructability syndrom. AKA I'm big and bad so nothing can kill me.

Only the original flight. Many of those problems seem to have been fixed.

The USS Galaxy took masive damage at Chin'Toka but it survived and is even going to be mentioned in ST:Nemesis.

[Master of Ossus]

if there ever was a case for exploding core syndrome, this would be it. no doubt the Jem Hadar attack ship was accelerating at full impulse for several seconds. a ship that small has little inertia to overcome and would accelerate rapidly. I don't care what your ship is made of, if you are hit with a big chunk of metal, which just so happens to have its own anti matter reactor and stores of warheads, moving at a quarter to half the speed of light...you are indeed screwed

But the attack ship's RELATIVE velocity was nowhere near that fast. WTF are you on?

[Master of Ossus]

The Planes hit the building causing major structural damage. The buildings stood up allowing the people to escape. The fires cooked the steel structure causing the building to collapse.

A point of note here is that the vast majority--by far--of the heat produced in the WTC fires came from the contents of the building rather than the jet fuel. The jet fuel served as a source of mass ignition but did not produce anywhere near enough heat to compromise the building structure.

Another way of putting this is to say that both WTC towers would have collapsed in the event of an uncontained whole-floor fire ignited by something as simple as a carelessly dropped match. Think about that for a minute. Any fire, if allowed to grow to fully involve an entire floor, would have brought down the towers.

Suddenly the GCS' detonating warp core doesn't seem all that far out of place.

I don't really see where you're coming from. The WTC was also designed to prevent fires from encompassing a whole floor. Those measures were just overwhelmed by the impact of the two planes, and the rapidity of the jet fuel's ignitition. You would be correct if the exploding warp core required a catastrophic event to trigger it, or one for which no countermeasures could be developed, but the GCS design appears to have none of these safety measures that one would expect, particularly for a ship that is designed to be combat-capable (that is, with combat as a secondary role for the ship). The lack of safety precautions in the core represents a serious risk for the entire ship, and SF's apparent unwillingness to address this problem seems to be pretty incompetent.

On the other hand, the problem with exploding power sources is not limited to SF warp cores. A space station was presumed destroyed by a phaser blast, fired by Riker. It was later shown that the shot actually deflected off of a transporter beam that was removing Riker from the station, but the fact that a single phaser hit is more than enough to catastrophically destroy a ship or a station represents an incredible disregard for safety in SF facilities.

[Darth Servo]

But the attack ship's RELATIVE velocity was nowhere near that fast. WTF are you on?

Its the standard Trekkie line: assume that 1/4 impulse is 1/4 c and don't bother checking the actual observed velocity.

[Master of Ossus]

But the attack ship's RELATIVE velocity was nowhere near that fast. WTF are you on?

Its the standard Trekkie line: assume that 1/4 impulse is 1/4 c and don't bother checking the actual observed velocity.

He's worse. He's saying that it was a quarter to a half the speed of light WHEN THE JH BUG RAMMED THE ODYSSEY! It was barely moving when the impact occured!

[Darth Servo]

Its the standard Trekkie line: assume that 1/4 impulse is 1/4 c and don't bother checking the actual observed velocity.

He's worse. He's saying that it was a quarter to a half the speed of light WHEN THE JH BUG RAMMED THE ODYSSEY! It was barely moving when the impact occured!

[whiny trekkie mode]
bbb-but we need to give Trek every advantage we can imagine otherwise Trek will lose and we can't have that. Trek must always win. It must, it must, it must.!
[/whiny trekkie mode]

[RayCav of ASVS]

Ok, I may be going out on a limb, but....

It doesn't matter what the relative velocity is period, what matters is the amount of damage the Odyssey took for that particular relative speed. Clearly, the Odyssey took a lot; enough to drill a fairly large hole in the secondary hull.

[Kamakazie Sith]

But the attack ship's RELATIVE velocity was nowhere near that fast. WTF are you on?

He is on the TNG TM.

[Darth Servo]

But the attack ship's RELATIVE velocity was nowhere near that fast. WTF are you on?

He is on the TNG TM.

Considering the number of errors in it, smoking the thing would probably be a better use for it than reading it.