You vs. the Alpha Quadrant

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2002-07-04 01:22pm

You are an Imperial Admiral. You have discovered a wormhole to the Star Trek universe. After setting up, it suddenly closes. Your readings show it won't open for another 10 years. Your last orders: conquer as much territory as possible. You have:

1 Executor Class Command ship HIMS Dragon
15 Imperator-II Class Star Destroyers
15Imperator-I Class Star Destroyers
30Victory-II Class Star Destroyers
50Carrack Class Light Cruisers
30 Inderdictors.
supply base to last the 10 years
transports with 2 million men.

How much can you conquer? How can you?

EDIT: Dulled down firepower

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2002-07-04 02:04pm

I let 250 of the Carrack cruisers get assimilated by the Borg. I'd send the rest to map out the galaxy. With my Carrack cruisers popping up everywhere and leaving and the Borg Carrack cruisers hypering in everywhere and leaving a wake of destruction, it would help cover my mapping efforts.
After their first assualt with such firepower and the mapping mission, I sail around in my SSD saying how, if they united under me, that I'd save them from the new Borg ships that they "stole" from me. If my SSD hypering in right above their planet provokes a hostile responce, I'd let them hammer the SSD without firing and call in 100 Star Destroyers. If they didn't give up after THAT, I'd disable their entire fleet (not destroy).
Then I'd have them gather most of their fleets together to invade the Borg. After all of the ships arrived at the rally point, my huge fleet would hyper in and order the ships to dock (fitted the SDs to carry the ST ships). We would then go off together and wreak unholy distruction on the Borg.
That would PROBABLY win their loyalty.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 2002-07-04 02:10pm

What's the point? It's not like the Alpha Quadrant powers, individually or collectively can really stop you using any reasonable plan.

Austin

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2002-07-04 02:20pm

I just wipe them out. No funky tricks or anything, my fleet has enough firepower to just walk right through any opposition.

I might make use of my incredible speed to break up the various governments first though.

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-07-04 03:15pm

I agree. With so many ships you can conquer the entire Milky Way without wasting your breath.
It would be more of a challenge if you have, let's say, 10 Interdictors, 20 VSD, 20 ISD and one Executor.

Shadow · Post by **Shadow** » 2002-07-04 03:23pm

Cpt_Frank wrote:I agree. With so many ships you can conquer the entire Milky Way without wasting your breath.
It would be more of a challenge if you have, let's say, 10 Interdictors, 20 VSD, 20 ISD and one Executor.

Maybe the major races, but the powerful races will destroy any Imperial ship that comes near them.

EMLally · Post by **EMLally** » 2002-07-04 03:25pm

Are we also assuming that the SDs have full compliments of fighters and sufficient logistical support to equip all necessary craft with torpedoes or missiles? That'd greatly magnify the ability of an SD to deal with any patrol fleets that might be formed (hell, Star Fleet is bound to do it, some time), even if a fleet engagement couldn't be fought by a single SD (well, depending on your view of how much firepower they have...).

After all, given the relative power of ST and SW weapons, the SW torpedoes, even being of negligable use against shielded SW destroyers, would lightly be useful against comparitively lightly-shielded ST craft.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-07-04 03:30pm

Ahh Tatitics an area I think I hold some vauge knowledge in

Using Wongs Numebers and weapon theroy about SW VS ST

A quick Hyperjump to the out edges of the Sol system roughly Half a life second away.

Break off the Victory Class into 8 Ship Groups drop them in groups of the 25(25x8) into Orbit around each planet except the Mercruy, Pluto and Uranus because they can keep that silly named planet(To bad I can't run a BDZ on a Gas Giant)
The reamaing 25 Victorys will head of to the Republics main shipyard along with 50 of the Class I Star Destroys then for earth itself I'd take my Flagship(Guess which one, we Admerials are so vain

The Exe)
Along with 12 Imperal class IIs acting as a screan force to Earth and 100 Carrack Class to fill any holes in a Complete Surronding of Earth along with the 25 Victory Class

They may have one maybe two ships avaible

And to quote one of the old X-Wing Books(Bacta War)

Captian-Disable that ship, I want it captured
Trigger Happy Officer- But sir!
Captian- We have more Ion Cannons than that ship has weapons FIRE!

Realy with that many ships it would be utter slaughter

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-07-04 03:37pm

What do you mean by 'the powerful races'?
The Borg? The Dominion?
Don't make me laugh!
They will be dead meat against a fleet that massive.
Dealing with the most powerful race ST has spawned so far, species 8472, is also no problem: just bloody their nose (ie kill several of them), and they'll retreat.

EDIT

naah, post arrived too late.

Shadow · Post by **Shadow** » 2002-07-04 03:42pm

Cpt_Frank wrote:What do you mean by 'the powerful races'?
The Borg? The Dominion?
Don't make me laugh!
They will be dead meat against a fleet that massive.
Dealing with the most powerful race ST has spawned so far, species 8472, is also no problem: just bloody their nose (ie kill several of them), and they'll retreat.

I mean the Voth, Organians, Apollo, S8472, etc. How is that fleet going to kill any Bio-ships?

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-07-04 03:45pm

mean the Voth, Organians, Apollo, S8472, etc. How is that fleet going to kill any Bio-ships?

Same way we do
Shot em
Exuse me Bio-entity going by the name Shadow but if I were to take this handsom Desert Eagle Pistol .50 Cal Provided by the friendly people in the Isrealy Army and shot you in the head would your biological Functions cease?

Seriously, even if it can repair it self nothing like good old mass fire tatics would easly put them down

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-07-04 03:55pm

I think the 'walk through and slaughter' approach might be counter-productive. I'd do it something like this.

Use probe droids to map. Dress them up so they look like the Borgs. This should scare the living hell out of everybody.

After that, appear with my fleet and declare that I have come to save them from the Borg. Then forge an alliance amongst everyone to face this 'new' Borg threat.

Then, lead the alliance fleet against a few Borg cubes or something. Let the Alpha Quadrant fleets trade blows, then come in and clean up.

Meanwhile, unload my Stormtroopers on key worlds(Romulus, Earth, etc.) to protect from threat of Borg invasion. After the spacebattle, the Stormtroopers seize control of the government.

Now I have every key planet under my control. Cue the Imperial March. Reduce one choice planet to plains of glass. Mass executions. Wait ten years, present the Emperor with the Alpha quadrant, in pristine condition and already up to Imperial industrial standards.

Shadow · Post by **Shadow** » 2002-07-04 04:19pm

Mr Bean wrote:Same way we do
Shot em
Exuse me Bio-entity going by the name Shadow but if I were to take this handsom Desert Eagle Pistol .50 Cal Provided by the friendly people in the Isrealy Army and shot you in the head would your biological Functions cease?

Seriously, even if it can repair it self nothing like good old mass fire tatics would easly put them down

It would be difficult for the Imperials to get into firing range. The shields would absorb the Imperial's firepower. Any damage repairs very quickly. The beam fired by the Bio-ships would kill any Imperial ship it hit, if it has 1/9th of the firepower required to destroy a planet.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2002-07-04 04:35pm

Reduced number of ships.

Falcon · Post by **Falcon** » 2002-07-04 05:40pm

Shadow wrote: It would be difficult for the Imperials to get into firing range.

We've already seen Voyager easily get into firing range, so unless you subscribe to the illogical 'massive range' of Federation weapons, the Imperials would be able shoot at them quite well.

The shields would absorb the Imperial's firepower.

Bio-ships have shields now? I don't remember anything being mentioned to that effect, but I could be wrong, I don't watch, record and memorize every trek episode. Do you have any kind evidence regarding the power of these 'shields' (or bio-ship hulls for that matter)

Any damage repairs very quickly.

How quickly is 'very quickly' an hour? two hours? Does this 'healing' require that the ships feed in some mannor? Would they have to return to fluidic space to eat? Do you have any reasoning to validate this?

The beam fired by the Bio-ships would kill any Imperial ship it hit, if it has 1/9th of the firepower required to destroy a planet.

First of all, those ships had to have a special 'planet buster' ship in their center in oder to accomplish said feat. Secondly, the destruction was slow and probably not complete. It was certianly no where remotely as strong as the Alderaan destruction from my view sitting here at home watching the show. Voyager and the third borg cube escaped the debres even. Finally, we saw Borg cubes, and even Voyager survive shots from bio ships, so they are either 1) very clumsy, not attacking with enough force to kill their opponents, or 2)Unable to fire a planet killing blast at all, its only the special planet destroying ships who can fire such a beam when coupled with the lesser ships

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2002-07-04 05:41pm

First, the "shields" couldn't stop a non explosive torpedo at low speeds.

Second the armour was damaged by a borg disruptor and was STILL repairing.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-07-04 06:29pm

NTM we have to count my good Admrial that NONE of these Fleets show an ability to yank ships out of Hyperspace or slow them down in Warp Space

So whats to prevent good old fasion but annoying to calculate Send in Gravity well Ship first aim Cone 0 Gravity have ships hype in real close, start the good old fasion broadsides?

Ala Grand Admiral Thrawn

They mention in the Extended Unvisers its hard to do in the Heat of Battle but not impossible so even without some Inductors whats them to stop them from doing it?(Just cause its hard does not means its impossible)

Shadow · Post by **Shadow** » 2002-07-04 08:08pm

Falcon wrote:We've already seen Voyager easily get into firing range, so unless you subscribe to the illogical 'massive range' of Federation weapons, the Imperials would be able shoot at them quite well.

In "Human Error," Voyager fired torpedoes from 8 million km.

Bio-ships have shields now? I don't remember anything being mentioned to that effect, but I could be wrong, I don't watch, record and memorize every trek episode. Do you have any kind evidence regarding the power of these 'shields' (or bio-ship hulls for that matter)

A shield effect was shown when a Borg Cube fired at a Bio-ship. They were at least powerful enough to block the Borg disruptors and torpedoes fired at it.

How quickly is 'very quickly' an hour? two hours? Does this 'healing' require that the ships feed in some mannor? Would they have to return to fluidic space to eat? Do you have any reasoning to validate this?

They never needed feeding. It is not known how long it takes. Although, ST: The Magazine said it they could do it quickly.

First of all, those ships had to have a special 'planet buster' ship in their center in oder to accomplish said feat. Secondly, the destruction was slow and probably not complete. It was certianly no where remotely as strong as the Alderaan destruction from my view sitting here at home watching the show. Voyager and the third borg cube escaped the debres even. Finally, we saw Borg cubes, and even Voyager survive shots from bio-ships, so they are either 1) very clumsy, not attacking with enough force to kill their opponents, or 2)Unable to fire a planet killing blast at all, its only the special planet destroying ships who can fire such a beam when coupled with the lesser ships

The center ship was a bio-ship that changed its shape. It makes little difference how violent the planet's explosion was. One shot would still destroy any Imperial ship. The Bio-ship that shot at Voyager was damged, and the shots still destroyed Borg Cubes. Later, the other attacking Bio-ship took several shots to destroy a Cube. this means the Borg may have begun to adapt, or it had even more damage, which is unlikely, considering that it had shields.
[quote="Grand Admiral Thrawn]First, the "shields" couldn't stop a non explosive torpedo at low speeds.[/quote]
These ships may have had their shields down.

Second the armour was damaged by a borg disruptor and was STILL repairing.

It may have been recently hit.

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2002-07-04 08:23pm

No one has any comments on my peaceful approach?

Falcon · Post by **Falcon** » 2002-07-04 08:35pm

Shadow wrote:In "Human Error," Voyager fired torpedoes from 8 million km.

So you now assume that Voyager can only hit bio ships on the far extream of its range? Do you have any evidence to suggest that they were firing from anywhere near those ranges when they battled the bio ships?

A shield effect was shown when a Borg Cube fired at a Bio-ship. They were at least powerful enough to block the Borg disruptors and torpedoes fired at it.

A shield like effect, but was it a shield, or just their hull? How much damage did it actually absorb or deflect? Why do you assume that the Empires weapons would be ineffective against bio-ships just because the highly specialized Borg weapons are?

They never needed feeding. It is not known how long it takes. Although, ST: The Magazine said it they could do it quickly.

Now we have living weapons that are more powerful than any other ships, including the immensely powerful Star Destroyers, and to top it off, it NEVER NEEDS TO EAT? I have yet to see an animal that doesn't need to eat, let alone one that doesn't need to eat despite surviving the rigors of space, emitting vast power outputs (as you claim). It slices, it dices, it runs on perpetual motion. Lovely. Then you validate the healing with a magizine, but you still fail to tell us how fast 'quickly' is. Quickly compared to a human knitting a broken bone? Quickly to a snail in traction? Quickly on galactic standards?

The center ship was a bio-ship that changed its shape. It makes little difference how violent the planet's explosion was.

One that changed its shape? When was that shown, I must have been asleep. It looked to me like it popped out of warp (or whatever), and was then joined by normal ships. Any evidence to support your mighty morphin bio-ship?

One shot would still destroy any Imperial ship.

One shot didn't destroy Voyager, or the Borg cubes, and you are once again skipping over the fact that all the Borg\Federation technology is based on moronically faulty technology so highly specialized that anything unfamiliar is expected to wreck havoc on them. The Empire doesn't suffer from this problem.

The Bio-ship that shot at Voyager was damged, and the shots still destroyed Borg Cubes.

Was damaged? Where are you coming up with this stuff? I really wish you'd point out some transcripts or something.

Later, the other attacking Bio-ship took several shots to destroy a Cube. this means the Borg may have begun to adapt, or it had even more damage, which is unlikely, considering that it had shields.

So you would agree that the reason the Borg were loosing lay not in the power of the bio-ships, but in the specialized Borg tech being useless against new threats?

These ships may have had their shields down.

Inventing abilities now?

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-07-04 08:52pm

And he still does not counter(Or just missed it?)

My why can't they hype in and do a full broad side?

You said they would have trouble getting close enough
Without giving me some guess on how far the Might Morphin Bio Ships(To use Falcons term I like it) can shot before thier weapons are infective or even what base principle they act on

Energy? Impact/Projectil? Somthing that has *Flux in it somewhere?

Remeber this is the board you have to stand behind your ideas till your proven wrong or no one can prove your wrong and we grugling say your right

At least the troll population is somewhat limited ATM

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2002-07-04 08:58pm

And remind me WHY they have to face S-8472? They left remember?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 2002-07-04 09:23pm

Falcon wrote:So you now assume that Voyager can only hit bio ships on the far extream of its range? Do you have any evidence to suggest that they were firing from anywhere near those ranges when they battled the bio ships?

They would have went to long rande if the Bio-ships could not hit them there.

A shield like effect, but was it a shield, or just their hull? How much damage did it actually absorb or deflect? Why do you assume that the Empires weapons would be ineffective against bio-ships just because the highly specialized Borg weapons are?

It isn't known if it was a shield or just the hull. The amount of damage absorbed is unknown because the yield of Borg weapons isn't known. I assume that Imperial weapons won't work because if 9 ships can destroy a planet they probably have similiar resistance.

Now we have living weapons that are more powerful than any other ships, including the immensely powerful Star Destroyers, and to top it off, it NEVER NEEDS TO EAT? I have yet to see an animal that doesn't need to eat, let alone one that doesn't need to eat despite surviving the rigors of space, emitting vast power outputs (as you claim). It slices, it dices, it runs on perpetual motion. Lovely. Then you validate the healing with a magizine, but you still fail to tell us how fast 'quickly' is. Quickly compared to a human knitting a broken bone? Quickly to a snail in traction? Quickly on galactic standards?

They used antimatter. I would assume quickly means within the timeframe of a battle, which typically last several minutes.

One that changed its shape? When was that shown, I must have been asleep. It looked to me like it popped out of warp (or whatever), and was then joined by normal ships. Any evidence to support your mighty morphin bio-ship?

ST: The magazine said this. The "center ship" looks just like a bio-ship that has moved its tendrils outward.

One shot didn't destroy Voyager, or the Borg cubes, and you are once again skipping over the fact that all the Borg\Federation technology is based on moronically faulty technology so highly specialized that anything unfamiliar is expected to wreck havoc on them. The Empire doesn't suffer from this problem.

One shot did destroy Borg Cubes, and a damaged bio-ship fired a shot damaged Voyager even though it didn't hit. How is "all the Borg\Federation technology is based on moronically faulty technology so highly specialized that anything unfamiliar is expected to wreck havoc on them?" Even if it is, this would be a red herring.

Was damaged? Where are you coming up with this stuff? I really wish you'd point out some transcripts or something.

Tuvok said it was damaged when they were inside it.

So you would agree that the reason the Borg were loosing lay not in the power of the bio-ships, but in the specialized Borg tech being useless against new threats?

No. A race that destroys planets with 9 small ships is far beyond the Empire.

Inventing abilities now?

What new abilities?

Shadow · Post by **Shadow** » 2002-07-04 09:25pm

That was me.

Shadow · Post by **Shadow** » 2002-07-04 09:32pm

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:And remind me WHY they have to face S-8472? They left remember?

The Borg have to patrol the quantum singularities in the Beta Quadrant to stop them from coming back.

Mr.Bean wrote:So whats to prevent good old fasion but annoying to calculate Send in Gravity well Ship first aim Cone 0 Gravity have ships hype in real close, start the good old fasion broadsides?

The Bio-ship could form a quantum singularity to go back to fluidic space.

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