Light Combatant vs. Light Combatant

[Big Phil]

In every versus battle here, people compare Galaxy/Sovereign/Defiant against ISD/VSD/SSD. Or Borg Cube vs. Dominion Dreadnought vs. ISD.

Let's try this scenario:

The Empire has established a base on a planet sitting astride a Federation transit route. The Imperial squadron includes 2 Lancer Frigates and a Carrack, plus a squadron of Assault Gunboats. The base is too new to have any defenses of its own other than a company of Stormtroopers with some E-Webs.

The Federation sends a squadron out to attack and take the base. The squadron consists of 2 Miranda's, a New Orleans, and an Excelsior.

Who wins, and describe a likely scenario?

What happens if, an hour into the fight, a Strike Cruiser cruiser reinforces the Imperials and a Nebula arrives for the Federation?

[Alyrium Denryle]

The federation dies horribly in the first volley, because a Carrack has 10 turbolasers....

[SirNitram]

Let's try this scenario:

A medium turbolasers bursts out 200 gigatons per shot. An anti-fighter gun tosses out 6 megatons per shot(AOTC ICS). The Carrack mounts multiple turbolasers, some of them heavies, and the Lancer mounts forty anti-fighter guns. It's a complete slaughter within the opening volley.

[Big Phil]

What if you take the Carrack out of the picture and only leave the Lancers?

[SirNitram]

What if you take the Carrack out of the picture and only leave the Lancers?

Multiply six by forty by two. That is the amount of energy each Lancer can produce per volley, in weapon mounts designed to track and strike maneuvering starfighters. It's not quite the same slaughter, but the Lancer was designed to withstand fire from SW capital ships, so it's not going to go down anytime soon.

[Alyrium Denryle]

What if you take the Carrack out of the picture and only leave the Lancers?

With the 6 megaton rapid firing ant-fighter guns on each lancer... it will be a slaughter in the first few seconds anyway.

The strike cruiser reinforcement is overkill.

[Big Phil]

Just out of curiousity - what would be a reasonable force comparison? Let's use capital ships - not TIE Fighter versus sixteen Sovereigns.

If the Empire has a single Lancer, what Federation force would be necessary to overcome it?

[Rogue 9]

Just out of curiousity - what would be a reasonable force comparison? Let's use capital ships - not TIE Fighter versus sixteen Sovereigns.

If the Empire has a single Lancer, what Federation force would be necessary to overcome it?

Starfleet. In it's entirety.

[SirNitram]

Just out of curiousity - what would be a reasonable force comparison? Let's use capital ships - not TIE Fighter versus sixteen Sovereigns.

It won't go over well in any situation. Star Wars capital ships are used to soaking up gigatons or teratons of energy in combat, have thousands of G's of acceleration, and the ability to engage or disengage more or less at will. Their weapons vastly outclass Federation weapons, and their ships rarely suffer reactor breaches prior to shield loss.

In short, the Federation is completely outclassed in naval engagements.

[Alyrium Denryle]

The entire Fed fleet MIGHT be able to do it.... Problem is, the Lancer has better acceleration as well, and can dictate the range of the engagement.

[Techno_Union]

Pure OP the Empire would win; but who voted Federation?

[Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba]

Maybe about 1,000 Starfleet vessels could destroy a Lancer... Still, even the largest estimate of Starfleet gives 7,000-12,000 ships. Graham Kennedy says 3,000.

[FedRebel]

Let's try this scenario:

The Empire has established a base on a planet sitting astride a Federation transit route. The Imperial squadron includes 2 Lancer Frigates

20 Corellian AG-2G Quad Laser Cannons (5 Forward, 5 Left, 5 Right, 5 Aft)

Source: http://www.galacticempiredatabank.com/L ... igate.html

and a Carrack,

10 Heavy Turbolasers
20 Ion Cannons
5 Tractor Beam Projectors

Source: http://www.galacticempiredatabank.com/Carrack.html

The Federation sends a squadron out to attack and take the base. The squadron consists of 2 Miranda's,

I assume the DS9 era USS Majestic version

6 Type VII-12 Twin Mounted Phaser Emplacements (6 Banks/2 Each)
2 Multi-Directional Pulsephaser Pluse Cannons
4 Mk 22 Mod 1 Direct-Fire Photon Torpedo Tubes

Source: Star Trek: Starship Spotter page 21

a New Orleans,

4 x Type VIII phaser arrays
3 x Standard photon torpedo tube + 90 torpedoes

Source: http://www.ditl.org/index.htm?daymain=/ ... neworleans

and an Excelsior.

12 x Type VIII phaser bank
4 x 2nd class photon torpedo tube3 + 150 torpedoes

Source: http://www.ditl.org/index.htm?daymain=/ ... dexcelsior

[uote]Who wins, [/quote]

Empire

12 quad turbloaser turrets (200 gigatons per shot)

Source: Star Wars: Attack of the Clones Incredible Cross-Sections page 23

Peak momentary load of a single generator can approach 473,000 MW for periods aproaching 170 miliseconds.

Source: Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual page 138

and describe a likely scenario?

The Fed squadron is detected by the stations long range scanners

The Carrack is dispatched to intercept the Federation squadron

The Fed squadron drops out of warp to engage the Carrack under the belief that a lone 350 meter long ship would be an easy kill or capture

The Carrack demands the Fed Squadron to identfy themselves and their intentions

The Feds unaware of the firepower at the disposal of the Carrack (do to the use of ECM on the Carrack) demand that the Carrack surrender.

The Carrack fires it's weapons and the Fed "squadron" is destroyed

What happens if, an hour into the fight,

This will last more like 5 minutes

a Strike Cruiser cruiser reinforces the Imperials

It would probably be used to retaliate against the nearest Fed starbase

20 Turbolasers (5 Forward, 5 Left, 5 Right, 5 Aft)
10 Turbolaser Batteries (4 Forward, 3 Left, 3 Right)
10 Ion Cannons (4 Forward, 3 Left, 3 Right)

Source: http://www.galacticempiredatabank.com/S ... uiser.html

and a Nebula arrives for the Federation?

Sent to investigate the loss of contact with starbase 123022

5 Type X Collimated Phaser Arrays
3 Mk 80 Direct-Fire Photon Torpedo Tubes

Source: Star Trek: Starship Spotter page 25

It should be unharmed unless the Empire wishes to establish a larger presence in the area

[Stofsk]

Let's try this scenario:

A medium turbolasers bursts out 200 gigatons per shot.

I thought those guns were HTLs? And they shot out 50 GT a shot, there just happened to be four of them (which of course would mean 200 GT in total delivered to a target). I just checked the ICS, and it doesn't call them anything other than turbolasers. Sorry if this sounds as nitpicking, it's just that I thought the Acclamator's 12 quad TLs were of the heavy variety.

[Techno_Union]

Let's try this scenario:

A medium turbolasers bursts out 200 gigatons per shot.

I thought those guns were HTLs? And they shot out 50 GT a shot, there just happened to be four of them (which of course would mean 200 GT in total delivered to a target). I just checked the ICS, and it doesn't call them anything other than turbolasers. Sorry if this sounds as nitpicking, it's just that I thought the Acclamator's 12 quad TLs were of the heavy variety.

I believe SirNitram was talking about the modern (relative to SW in the era of the Empire) TLs. Not the Republic-era ones. According to what I have heard, the MTLs are supposed to be around 200GT (just based on technology growth and I believe the size of the weapons). The HTLs are supposed to be in the TTs... that is if I'm not mistaken.

But as far as the Acclamators, ya, I don't think those were HTLs are anything along those lines.

[SirNitram]

A medium turbolasers bursts out 200 gigatons per shot.

I thought those guns were HTLs? And they shot out 50 GT a shot, there just happened to be four of them (which of course would mean 200 GT in total delivered to a target). I just checked the ICS, and it doesn't call them anything other than turbolasers. Sorry if this sounds as nitpicking, it's just that I thought the Acclamator's 12 quad TLs were of the heavy variety.

I believe SirNitram was talking about the modern (relative to SW in the era of the Empire) TLs. Not the Republic-era ones. According to what I have heard, the MTLs are supposed to be around 200GT (just based on technology growth and I believe the size of the weapons). The HTLs are supposed to be in the TTs... that is if I'm not mistaken.

But as far as the Acclamators, ya, I don't think those were HTLs are anything along those lines.

Negatory. Those are MEDIUM TL's, and it's 200GT per shot. That's straight from the AOTC ICS. Besides, if a Troop Transport mounts HTL's, why would the bigger, badder, capital warship of the era mount MTL's?

In short, yes, they are THAT powerful.

[Techno_Union]

Negatory. Those are MEDIUM TL's, and it's 200GT per shot. That's straight from the AOTC ICS. Besides, if a Troop Transport mounts HTL's, why would the bigger, badder, capital warship of the era mount MTL's?

In short, yes, they are THAT powerful.

Nitram, was this directed towards me or Stofsk?

[SirNitram]

Negatory. Those are MEDIUM TL's, and it's 200GT per shot. That's straight from the AOTC ICS. Besides, if a Troop Transport mounts HTL's, why would the bigger, badder, capital warship of the era mount MTL's?

In short, yes, they are THAT powerful.

Nitram, was this directed towards me or Stofsk?

More or less both, as you both seemed to be incredulous at the idea of MTL's outfitted like that.

But yes. You can scale the guns from the Acclamator against the ISD models, and they are a little over a hundred times smaller.

[Stofsk]

Yeah, I just checked my ICS and it says it's 200 GT per shot. I don't know where I heard the '50 GT x 4 per shot' thing, but it's not in the ICS. A quick scan proves that. Now I'm even more confused, but it's not like this is a major issue. As to the MTL vs HTL distinction, thanks for clarifying.

[SirNitram]

Yeah, I just checked my ICS and it says it's 200 GT per shot. I don't know where I heard the '50 GT x 4 per shot' thing, but it's not in the ICS. A quick scan proves that. Now I'm even more confused, but it's not like this is a major issue. As to the MTL vs HTL distinction, thanks for clarifying.

No worries. The 50 GT x 4 was a common misconception arising from the original release of the book.. It got thrown around about as much as number-games with the shield wattage to try and 'prove' a 50 Kiloton warhead could breach it.

[Techno_Union]

More or less both, as you both seemed to be incredulous at the idea of MTL's outfitted like that.

Nope, not here. The thing is that I have never really heard one source (whether it be a person or book or whatnot) that has talked much about how you scale the weapons or what exactly modern SW weapons are rated at. So I had to add in the "according to what I have heard" and the "are supposed to be" parts just in case I was mistaken at what I remembered.

[Prozac the Robert]

The entire Fed fleet MIGHT be able to do it.... Problem is, the Lancer has better acceleration as well, and can dictate the range of the engagement.

I thought ST ships tended to do better on the acceleration front. Anyone have any numbers?

[Praxis]

Let's try this scenario:

A medium turbolasers bursts out 200 gigatons per shot. An anti-fighter gun tosses out 6 megatons per shot(AOTC ICS). The Carrack mounts multiple turbolasers, some of them heavies, and the Lancer mounts forty anti-fighter guns. It's a complete slaughter within the opening volley.

I thought it was the HEAVY turbolasers that were 200 gigatons per shot?

Anyway, the two Lancers (anti-fighter gun = 6 megatons, the Lancer has 20 QUAD guns, therefore the Lancer can unleash 480 megatons per volley, x 2 lancers = 960 megatons per volley, easily enough to destroy a small Federation ship in one pass).

[Ghost Rider]

Let's try this scenario:

A medium turbolasers bursts out 200 gigatons per shot. An anti-fighter gun tosses out 6 megatons per shot(AOTC ICS). The Carrack mounts multiple turbolasers, some of them heavies, and the Lancer mounts forty anti-fighter guns. It's a complete slaughter within the opening volley.

I thought it was the HEAVY turbolasers that were 200 gigatons per shot?

Anyway, the two Lancers (anti-fighter gun = 6 megatons, the Lancer has 20 QUAD guns, therefore the Lancer can unleash 480 megatons per volley, x 2 lancers = 960 megatons per volley, easily enough to destroy a small Federation ship in one pass).

Heavy Turbolaser Firepower has yet to be definied by the ICS.

So far we only have the power levels of 20 year old transport of their LTLs and MTLs.

[Big Phil]

Okay, who are the two jokers who voted for the Federation?

Under what scenario is the Federation going to win this fight?