Could the Federation (or any Trek group) make a Coruscant?

Techno_Union · Post by **Techno_Union** » 2004-12-17 10:57pm

Could the Federation, or any other Trek group without a time limit, create a Coruscant out of a world? This is inspired by a thread on SB.com (towards the end of this page and then the second page).

It is rather interesting to think about. Viviftp (some of you might know him), argues that the Federation (alone) could do it. I am not quite sure but do I lean more towards no.

Has this been touched on directly before?

Lord of the Farce · Post by **Lord of the Farce** » 2004-12-18 12:10am

Without a time limit? Sure, why not?

But realistically, it's not just about building a Coruscant-copy, but also putting in the necessary time and resources for it's maintenance and repair (eg. if there is an earthquake). That's where I see pretty much all of the ST groups (except for the Borg and a small handful of others) will fail.

Just consider: The Federation's largest space station is only around the size of Bespin city, and that was an operation under the Empire's radar.

Bellator · Post by **Bellator** » 2004-12-18 08:02am

The Federation/humans, without a timelimit. No problem. Hell, even the Q were afraid of what humanity might become in the distant future. Just all depends on how long you're willing to wait.

In the 24th century: The Borg, judging from the size of some of their facilities. And some of the omnipotent races, if they felt inclined to do so (Trelane, Q, Douwd perhaps).

Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba · Post by **Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba** » 2004-12-18 08:29am

A Coruscant would need thousands of ships to come in DAILY to fuel it's people. The Federation has no chance of achieving it.

Besides, like others said, their largest Space Station is about the size of the Executor. I doubt that they could build Coruscant.

Admiral Drason · Post by **Admiral Drason** » 2004-12-18 09:35am

I just don't see the feds doing the Coruscant approach. They for one don't have the building capabilities. They also have no reason to due to the fact that there population is way to small. Even if they were given an unlimited time they would most likely put people on all of those planets with a few hundred colonists on them in stead.

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2004-12-18 02:35pm

Yeah, what were the low-end estimates for Coruscant's population? 500-1000 trillion? Derived based on population densities of cities with buildings that are one-tenth the height of the ones on Coruscant?

Hell, the entire population of the Federation would make up one neighborhood on Coruscant.

Bellator · Post by **Bellator** » 2004-12-18 02:41pm

Firstly, the OP specificly stated that there is no timelimit. Secondly, it's not about if the Feds will do it, but if they could do it. And giving unlimited amount of time, they could do it. They most likely won't do it, but they could.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2004-12-18 02:44pm

without a time limit the feds could hypothetically build starships to rival sw vessels. of course this wouldn't be likely to happen for a few hundred thousand years, but why bother with a challenging scenario, eh?

Techno_Union · Post by **Techno_Union** » 2004-12-18 03:02pm

If I could, i would want to go back and edit the OP, but I can't.

Since Coruscant was turned into what it is today over 25,000 (mabye less, anyone have a number?) years, that would be the time limit. Heh, don't think that would make a difference though.

But something I did forget to add in the OP was that I also wanted to know if the Feds could maintain their Coruscant at their present level of tech. Right now in the Federation (or whenever their height is), could they build and maintain a Coruscant-type planet?

Lord Zentei · Post by **Lord Zentei** » 2004-12-18 06:23pm

How populous is the Earth in TNG era Star Trek? Let's say 20 billion? If Cosuscant has a population of 1000 trillion, they need to increase their population by a factor of 50000. At a population growth rate of 1% per year, that would take ln(50000)/0.01 years, which is roughly 1082 years.

If they were to receive a Coruscant like planet built up with federation infrastructure and move into it with the 20 billion people, they would have to pay 50000 times the normal rate for the maintenance of their infrastructure (and let's not get into that crap about there being no money in the Federation... we're talking productivity here, regardless of how it is measured).

No, they could not maintain a Coruscant let alone build one, unless you give them an arbitrary amount of time to prepare and place no limiting factors upon them. But isn't this always what is needed by the Feds if they are to compare with the Empire in any field? "We could match the Empire if we had thousands of years like they've had"?

Lord Zentei · Post by **Lord Zentei** » 2004-12-18 06:27pm

If "or any trek group" includes the Borg, then "yes, they probably could".

PainRack · Post by **PainRack** » 2004-12-18 08:33pm

I think Techno Union a tad interested in whether technologically, industrially and resource wise, can the Federation build and maintain a Coruscant.

Techno_Union · Post by **Techno_Union** » 2004-12-18 09:23pm

PainRack wrote:I think Techno Union a tad interested in whether technologically, industrially and resource wise, can the Federation build and maintain a Coruscant.

Yes, thank you. That is what I should have put in the OP.

Lord Zentei · Post by **Lord Zentei** » 2004-12-18 09:38pm

I have already answered the question: people are a crucial resource in city building! TNG Earth would need to increase their per-capita maintenance costs by a factor of 50000 or their population by a factor of 50000 to pull it off. Alternatively, they would have to increase their productivity per capita by a factor of 50000.

Lets take a real-world example: the United States has a per-capita GDP of $37800, and Bermuda has a per-capita GDP of $36000. Could Bermuda build and maintain an infrastructure equal to that of the USA? No, because Bermuda has a population of only 65000 people, 4500 times less than that of the USA. If Bermuda were to build and maintain an infrastructure equal to that of the USA, it's population would have to increase 4500 fold OR it's productivity per capita would have to increase 4500 fold OR it's per capita payments for maintenance and construction would have to increase 4500 fold (all impossible).

Note: TNG Earth had to increase 50000 fold! This means that the ratio between Coruscant : TNG Earth represents a disparity eleven times greater than that of the USA : Bermuda!

I'm still assuming a population of 20 billion for TNG Earth. I'm also assuming a similar level of GDP, a similar level of construction technology, a similar level of environmental control technology, etc, etc, etc, all of which is outrageously generous on my part.

Lord Zentei · Post by **Lord Zentei** » 2004-12-18 09:44pm

I'm still assuming a population of 20 billion for TNG Earth. I'm also assuming a similar level of GDP, a similar level of construction technology, a similar level of environmental control technology, etc, etc, etc, all of which is outrageously generous on my part.

Sorry, I obviously meant per capita GDP.

jawbertsc · Post by **jawbertsc** » 2005-01-02 01:46am

Techno_Union wrote:Could the Federation, or any other Trek group without a time limit, create a Coruscant out of a world? This is inspired by a thread on SB.com (towards the end of this page and then the second page).

It is rather interesting to think about. Viviftp (some of you might know him), argues that the Federation (alone) could do it. I am not quite sure but do I lean more towards no.

Has this been touched on directly before?

Well it would not the Fedration cause from what I understand the feds are bunch of tree huggers. I doubt they want to endanger the white spotted owl or the three two newt or something on earth or the equivilent on another planet. All the environmentilist would protest and tie things up in courts.

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2005-01-02 01:57am

Man fucking read the stickies, let old threads rest in peace.

And you add nothing but a retarded comment to the discussion. Read the fucking main site and get a hint, this isn't a forum for idle thoughts and random comments (although I made a similar mistake in the beginning I never posted such irrelevant material holy shit).

And if you followed Star Trek at all you'd realize that the court system is near non-existent and the only examples we see of the justice system is administered by Starfleet. As well you make a wild claim that the Federation wouldn't construct a sphere world based on how you feel the Federation will act rather than citing sources. The Federation isn't just the United States in the future. If you want resources, this site has the TNG and DS9 scripts, become familiar with the literature if you are serious with debating. Also become familiar with the main site (the most important point, you will get flamed if you don't know DW's position and the evidence he presents, whether you do it on purpose or not).

Brian

jawbertsc · Post by **jawbertsc** » 2005-01-02 02:10am

brianeyci wrote:Man fucking read the stickies, let old threads rest in peace.

And you add nothing but a retarded comment to the discussion. Read the fucking main site and get a hint, this isn't a forum for idle thoughts and random comments (although I made a similar mistake in the beginning I never posted such irrelevant material holy shit).

And if you followed Star Trek at all you'd realize that the court system is near non-existent and the only examples we see of the justice system is administered by Starfleet. As well you make a wild claim that the Federation wouldn't construct a sphere world based on how you feel the Federation will act rather than citing sources. The Federation isn't just the United States in the future. If you want resources, this site has the TNG and DS9 scripts, become familiar with the literature if you are serious with debating. Also become familiar with the main site (the most important point, you will get flamed if you don't know DW's position and the evidence he presents, whether you do it on purpose or not).

Well from what i have seen in TNG it sems the prevailing thought is to keep the earth as pristine as possible. They still have vineyards in France and San Franscio seemd to be preserved well. From countless episodes the terforming one they seem to go out of there way from displacing native lifeforms if the can help it. They go out of there way in numerous of examples of watching less anvanced races from affecting their natural evolution. Hence the Prime directive. It seems ilogical that the Fedration with their desire to prtotect the natural order would construct a place like Coruscant or even attempt it.

As for the tag I missed it sorry I hope i did not cause to much trauma by posting here

Brian

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2005-01-02 05:49am

Y'know it would help to read that thing called Thread Necro.

Unless you are bringing a new piece of infor this is Post Count +1

So

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Could the Federation (or any Trek group) make a Coruscant?

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