"Boosted" Star Trek vs. Star Wars

HyperionX · Post by **HyperionX** » 2004-12-18 02:37am

Since virtually everythin ST race loses easier to the GE or even the Rebellion, let's just "boost" certain ST races with some extra stuff from other universes:

1) Borg + Replicators vs. GE at it's height
Borg and the Replicators are fully combined (Replicators taking over), build for a year, and invade through a wormhole at the edge of the SW galaxy

1a) Same but B+R invades in place of the Vong vs NR

2) Feds + Roms + Klingons + Doms + Cards with Andromeda tech, TA tech (no nanolathe), all B5 younger race tech, vs GE at height
Starting from after Dom War , this massive coalition builds for 10 years maximizing each of the extra techs best stuff and invades through a wormhole at the end of the SW galaxy

2a) Same but coalition invades instead of the Vong vs NR

3) 1 billion of those massive AI torpedoes (as seen in ST:VOY forgot what they are called, but in that episode one of them took over the Doc) launching an assault on the GE at it's height with all knowledge of important targets + previous coalition launching assault immediately afterwards + regular Borg assault a few months later

3a) Same as above but S8472 invades a few months after the Borg

3b) Same as 3 but inplace of the Vong vs NR

3c) Same as 3a but inplace of the Vong vs NR

So, will any of these mega coalitions stand a chance?

Bellator · Post by **Bellator** » 2004-12-18 08:13am

Without having to resort to other franchises...an easier and more likely boost would be: Borg assimilate S8472 & Voth (& fill in whatever other advanced race one can think of), then take on GE. Assuming the Borg actually use the tech aquired from those species, they might pose a threath (extremely fast transwarp, multiphasic cloak, starship beaming transports, planet killers, etc). Or they could take on the Old Republic, prior to military build up. An ineffective governement, relatively few capital ships. I don't know. Those match-ups at least seem a little less farfetched than ST with TA tech.

Admiral Drason · Post by **Admiral Drason** » 2004-12-18 09:29am

In every scenario they would die.

ST and B5 just don’t have the firepower/speed to get the job done. Although having such massive forces the empire may receive some losses, they would be unable to do anything to change the final outcome.

HyperionX · Post by **HyperionX** » 2004-12-18 12:46pm

Any better explanation than a blanket statement "ST will lose"?

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2004-12-18 05:39pm

200 gigaton turbolasers

darthdavid · Post by **darthdavid** » 2004-12-18 06:19pm

Here's a boost. The borg assimilate the culture

. Now who wins?

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-12-18 06:47pm

darthdavid wrote:Here's a boost. The borg assimilate the culture . Now who wins?

Never would happen, because to assume that is a lone Culture Drone somehow allows itself being assimilated thus meaning it obviously lost access to all it's weapons, material and knowledge of what it means to be the lowliest garbage scow of the Culture.

As for an easier statement...weaponry in the GT-TT-PT range and add that they have a galaxy of resources and literally hundreds of thousands of ships.

The GE isn't the biggest stick but they outclass quite a few of the sci fi universes barring those of multi galactic territory.

Lord Zentei · Post by **Lord Zentei** » 2004-12-18 09:05pm

The Star Wars galaxy has 12000000 planets, The Federation has 150 planets. That is a disparity of 80000:1 in favour of SW.

Let's assume that the SW and the Feds have the same population per planet (cough, cough, Coruscant). Let's also assume that SW is represented by the USA. What would represent the Federation?

293000000 people / 80000 = 3662.5 people.

The Feds would be represented by a town or village with less than 3663 people in it. Or about 23.5% more people than this place:

Let's assume that we include the Romulans, Cardassians and the Klingons, the Dominion, the Borg, hell let's go crazy: assume a population a thousand times that of the Federation for the whole of the ST galaxy. Where does that leave ST? with a population of roughly 3.7 million people, or slightly fewer people than this place:

If you want to give the Trekverse a chance, you must equip them with a technological/productivity advantage that outweighs the numerical advantage of the Empire.

Bellator · Post by **Bellator** » 2004-12-19 05:26pm

If we include ST's EU into this, how does Star Trek match up?

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » 2004-12-19 06:06pm

Bellator wrote:If we include ST's EU into this, how does Star Trek match up?

Depends on how you're going to order the level of canon. Trek novels exaggerate Trek technology and powers incredibly. For example, there's references to Federation warp cores having power output equivalent to hundreds of stars, even examples of single Klingon ships devestating planets in attacks on par with Star Wars BDZ's.

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2004-12-19 06:26pm

Yes, some of the ST-'EU', does boost Star Trek up to Star Wars levels

If you consider stuff out of line with canon-Star Trek to be alternate universes, some of these alternate universes could stand toe to toe with the Empire or even beat them.

For example, a Star Trek novel with the Federation having Star Wars level firepower, well, that would up the universes Borg considerably.

However, to debate this, you'd have to address each novel individually.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2004-12-19 07:05pm

Robert Walper wrote:
Bellator wrote:If we include ST's EU into this, how does Star Trek match up?
Depends on how you're going to order the level of canon. Trek novels exaggerate Trek technology and powers incredibly. For example, there's references to Federation warp cores having power output equivalent to hundreds of stars, even examples of single Klingon ships devestating planets in attacks on par with Star Wars BDZ's.

I recall hearing of one novel where a Fed ship destroyed an entire planet with antimatter bursts...

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » 2004-12-19 07:57pm

Praxis wrote:
Robert Walper wrote:
Bellator wrote:If we include ST's EU into this, how does Star Trek match up?
Depends on how you're going to order the level of canon. Trek novels exaggerate Trek technology and powers incredibly. For example, there's references to Federation warp cores having power output equivalent to hundreds of stars, even examples of single Klingon ships devestating planets in attacks on par with Star Wars BDZ's.
I recall hearing of one novel where a Fed ship destroyed an entire planet with antimatter bursts...

Never mind that. One power in Trek captured a aged Doctor Carol Marcus and launched a genesis wave attack that consumed entire star systems at a FTL rate.

Like I said, Trek novels wank Federation and other's abilities to incredible levels. They simple don't have the benefit of a canon policy that would allow us Rabid Trekkies to use them.

Bellator · Post by **Bellator** » 2004-12-20 09:39am

and that seriously sucks ass. Paramount doesn't even consider Roddenberry's own TMP novelization to be canon. Humbug. That makes the whole ST vs SW debate rather lopsided, considering EU material outnumbers "absolute" canon material by a fair amount. Then again, both in SW and ST, EU material is horribly inconsistent and often take it to fanboy levels. My main reason not bother reading most of the EU stuff, unless they're written by exceptionally good authors.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-12-20 10:30am

Bellator wrote:and that seriously sucks ass. Paramount doesn't even consider Roddenberry's own TMP novelization to be canon. Humbug. That makes the whole ST vs SW debate rather lopsided, considering EU material outnumbers "absolute" canon material by a fair amount. Then again, both in SW and ST, EU material is horribly inconsistent and often take it to fanboy levels. My main reason not bother reading most of the EU stuff, unless they're written by exceptionally good authors.

You're full of shit. ST novels fan-wank to an unbelievable extent, but SW novels actually tend to downgrade SW capabilities compared to the films and novelizations themselves.

Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba · Post by **Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba** » 2004-12-20 10:47am

I can just imagine what the Enterprize ICS would look like:

Phase Cannon: 900 Gigatons

Shields: 200 Teradynes

Engines: 98 isojoules

Bellator · Post by **Bellator** » 2004-12-20 11:35am

You're full of shit. ST novels fan-wank to an unbelievable extent, but SW novels actually tend to downgrade SW capabilities compared to the films and novelizations themselves.

Ah, right. I probably forgot all about those suncrushers and world devastators that we've seen in TESB or ROTJ.

Oh wait, they weren't. Downgraded capabilities indeed.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-12-20 11:36am

Bellator wrote:
You're full of shit. ST novels fan-wank to an unbelievable extent, but SW novels actually tend to downgrade SW capabilities compared to the films and novelizations themselves.
Ah, right. I probably forgot all about those suncrushers and world devastators that we've seen in TESB or ROTJ. Oh wait, they weren't. Downgraded capabilities indeed.

Yeah, dumbfuck...they only have a galaxy worth of resources but the Eu at times make 200 fucking ships a big deal.

Nice to see morons like to get smacked around with facts as usual.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-12-20 11:39am

Bellator wrote:
You're full of shit. ST novels fan-wank to an unbelievable extent, but SW novels actually tend to downgrade SW capabilities compared to the films and novelizations themselves.
Ah, right. I probably forgot all about those suncrushers and world devastators that we've seen in TESB or ROTJ. Oh wait, they weren't. Downgraded capabilities indeed.

Yes, moron. A world devastator is far less powerful than a Death Star, and requires far less manufacturing capability. Ditto for the Suncrusher, which is technically a superweapon but realistically requires a tiny fraction of the resources or power that a Death Star does, and would be easily destroyed by a fully functional Death Star.

The EU wanks the Sith and Jedi, but seriously downgrades the capabilities of the Empire in most cases. Grow a brain, dipshit.

Bellator · Post by **Bellator** » 2004-12-20 11:45am

seriously. In the OT, the biggest fleet to fleet battles involved no more than a few dozen ships on either side. Of course this is rediculous if we are to believe that the Empire spreads throughout an entire galaxy, but still it isn't shown. And a few million clone soldiers? For the entire Republic? But believe what you wish, I maintain that it are infact the movies that tries to downplay the sheer size of the empire, and their relative capabilities (which is the main reason that the SW vs ST was somewhat alive prior to EU canonization). If the EU downplays SW's strenght, then why do some trekkies opose their canon status?

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-12-20 11:48am

Bellator wrote:seriously. In the OT, the biggest fleet to fleet battles involved no more than a few dozen ships on either side. Of course this is rediculous if we are to believe that the Empire spreads throughout an entire galaxy, but still it isn't shown. And a few million clone soldiers? For the entire Republic? But believe what you wish, I maintain that it are infact the movies that tries to downplay the sheer size of the empire, and their relative capabilities (which is the main reason that the SW vs ST was somewhat alive prior to EU canonization). If the EU downplays SW's strenght, then why do some trekkies opose their canon status?

Let's see to your first point. Where did these battles take place again? The outer reaches of the galaxy proper, known as the OUTER RIM. Damn...A government must use overwhelming force to patrol the outer marches of their territory

.

Let' see...the 1.2 Million clones...what was it called? Oh that's right, the FIRST of MANY.

And it's only retarded and deluded fools that keep arguing something that is obvious after a while that is not there.

Nowhere is shown that ST can even begin to do what the Empire did in six months and if you have problems with canon talk to Paramount.

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2004-12-20 12:37pm

Darth Wong wrote: Ditto for the Suncrusher, which is technically a superweapon but realistically requires a tiny fraction of the resources or power that a Death Star does, and would be easily destroyed by a fully functional Death Star.

How would the DS kill a Suncrusher? Sun Crusher's armour makes it neigh invincible, I don't beilve the superlase can target fighter size objects.

Post by **Kuja** » 2004-12-20 12:42pm

Crazedwraith wrote:
Darth Wong wrote: Ditto for the Suncrusher, which is technically a superweapon but realistically requires a tiny fraction of the resources or power that a Death Star does, and would be easily destroyed by a fully functional Death Star.
How would the DS kill a Suncrusher? Sun Crusher's armour makes it neigh invincible, I don't beilve the superlase can target fighter size objects.

Invincible against fighter-level weapons maybe, but I seriously doubt it could survive a full-on turbolaser bombardment from the DS.

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2004-12-20 12:56pm

Kuja wrote:
Crazedwraith wrote:
Darth Wong wrote: Ditto for the Suncrusher, which is technically a superweapon but realistically requires a tiny fraction of the resources or power that a Death Star does, and would be easily destroyed by a fully functional Death Star.
How would the DS kill a Suncrusher? Sun Crusher's armour makes it neigh invincible, I don't beilve the superlase can target fighter size objects.
Invincible against fighter-level weapons maybe, but I seriously doubt it could survive a full-on turbolaser bombardment from the DS.

Didn't take quite a beating from Daala's Star Destroyers? And then survive accerating straight through one of them?

Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba · Post by **Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba** » 2004-12-20 01:14pm

Crazedwraith wrote:
Kuja wrote:
Crazedwraith wrote: How would the DS kill a Suncrusher? Sun Crusher's armour makes it neigh invincible, I don't beilve the superlase can target fighter size objects.
Invincible against fighter-level weapons maybe, but I seriously doubt it could survive a full-on turbolaser bombardment from the DS.
Didn't take quite a beating from Daala's Star Destroyers? And then survive accerating straight through one of them?

That's equivalent to 1,250,000 200 gigaton minimum Turbolasers and one superlaser rated at 20 billion trillion megatons how again?