Xindi Sphere > Death Star

[Jon]

The Xindi Super Sphere could wipe out the Death Star 111!11oneoneWTFOMG11!!lLOLOL

A new argument I am seeing pop up, has it been done here? Obviously the Death Star has a lot of guns and shields (which elsewhere of course is being ignored) So um, I'll give advantage to the Xindi, for some miraculous reason, the Death Star has temporarily lost the power to fire weapons and power it's shields... is this a victory for the trekverse (only of course giving the Empire the massive disadvantage stated)

edit: damn wrong forum, mod move pweeze?

[Stofsk]

I believe it has been done before. Needless to say, the Death Star is still superior.

[Master of Ossus]

Moved to the vs. section, for obvious reasons.

[Jon]

Shit its 5am, that's why I am so dumb... wrong thread

[Stravo]

Incorrect post deleted Jon.

[jegs2]

Is he saying that if the DS lost all shields and weapons due to some fluke loss of power that the Xindi sphere could destroy it? Sure, why not.

[Darth Servo]

The Xindi spuerweapon was just another chain reaction weapon that Trek writers love to masturbate over.

[Steven Snyder]

I'll give advantage to the Xindi, for some miraculous reason, the Death Star has temporarily lost the power to fire weapons and power it's shields...

So basically...

Something from the Trekverse vs. an unarmed, unshielded, and otherwise defenseless Death Star? How is this a comparison?

That is like comparing a guy with some basic tools vs. an unmanned M-1 tank.

[Kuja]

Xindi Sphere vs Death Star brings to mind the image of a tennis ball being bounced repeatedly off a wrecking ball.

[Lord Revan]

Does the Xindi Sphere mean the Final weapon, if so it's possible as did destroy Earth (since as OP said the DS won't have shields or Weapons.)

[The Prime Necromancer]

Just to say Jon, it is usually severly looked down upon to handicap a side to that extent in a versus scenario. But since you seem to acknowledge that, I suppose it's not a problem.

Anyway, are all the Death Star's weapons disabled including the Superlaser, or just the numerous turrets? If the former, then really there's no fight; of course the Xindi win (or its at least a stalemate; I'll explain below), since the Death Star can't fight back. In the case of the latter, then it's a matter of range; who can shoot their weapon from the longer distance. If I recall correctly, the original Death Star vaped Alderaan from six planetary diameters away; assuming an Earth-like planet as a measuring stick, that's about 76,000 km. What range does the Xindi weapon have?

Finally, it should be noted that even without its shields, the Death Star's armor is made out of dense heavy metals that are going to be more resistant to the NDF effects of the Xindi's weapon that a planet is. One wonders if the Xindi can do it in one shot (or perhaps the Death Star's smaller size will balance it out), or at all. No real way to tell, just something to add.

[Lord Revan]

What range does the Xindi weapon have?

IIRC it fired from a range that not much bigger then obit of the future spacedock (from STII) or the orbit of the drydock (from STI & STII).

[Steven Snyder]

I have given this more consideration...

How many Tie Bombers (and Tie Fighters to a lesser extent) does the Death Star carry? I have a feeling that the barrage of proton torpedoes would be be enough to destroy their Trekverse adversaries.

[Jon]

Yes my main reason for stripping out the shields and main guns (including super laser) was to ask if this weapon could penetrate the hull and destroy the DS... If it can destroy a planet of Earth size...

I'd say it comes out of warp and has to spend just under 30 seconds preparing to fire like it did in Ent... can DS dispatch Fighters in time? Can the weapon even penetrate the hull? I dunno, that's why I'm asking you... lol

[Kurgan]

Hmm, a pretty boring scenario. I'm probably wrong, but my initial thought on the "vs" scenario thread starter was more along the lines of:

If Trek vs. Wars (Federation vs. Empire) was exactly the same as we all think of it, but the Empire doesn't get to use the Death Star anymore, and the Feddies get the (finished) Xindi superweapon, how would the scenario be different?

While the Feddies would now have a way to destroy planets, I think the Empire would still easily win, since they have other super weapons, but even if we excluded all of them, they still have the advantage in speed and numbers. The Xindi weapon would be destroyed by a fleet of ISD's for example... since the weapons and shield technology is simply inferior.

[The Prime Necromancer]

I have given this more consideration...

How many Tie Bombers (and Tie Fighters to a lesser extent) does the Death Star carry? I have a feeling that the barrage of proton torpedoes would be be enough to destroy their Trekverse adversaries.

Pfft. Oh yeah, I totally forgot about all the TIEs and parasite craft the DS carries (according to the Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessels: 7,000 TIEs, 4 "Strike Cruisers", and 20,000 "military and transport vessels". And those are all lower limits, since the EGtVaV undercuts the original station's diameter by around 40 km). Xindi are fucked.

[Glimmervoid]

If the sphere got a shot of at the deathstar then yes I think the shot would destroy the deathstar even if a lot of the phasing is lost out its still a lot of energy if it was able to destroy a planet. Of course I recognise the fact that in a fair fight or even in this senior the deathstar would win it hordes of fighters are more than enough and if it did look bad(i.e. they worked out the can not withstand the amount of energy in the 3min fireing charge time) they could hyperdrive away and the sphere could not catch them.

[SirNitram]

Anyone watching the shot of it destroying Earth will see it's plainly the Umpteenth Incarnation of the Magic Chain Reaction Weapon. You simply can't have the slow glowy shit this had and get a planet to blow up like that after you stop firing.

So I'm gonna say it's useless against a shielded target. It's actual energy effects on the atmosphere and ocean surface were far inferior to even kiloton nuclear weapons.

[Gustav32Vasa]

Anyone watching the shot of it destroying Earth will see it's plainly the Umpteenth Incarnation of the Magic Chain Reaction Weapon. You simply can't have the slow glowy shit this had and get a planet to blow up like that after you stop firing.

So I'm gonna say it's useless against a shielded target. It's actual energy effects on the atmosphere and ocean surface were far inferior to even kiloton nuclear weapons.

I havent seen that episode, do you have any pics?

[brianeyci]

Anyone watching the shot of it destroying Earth will see it's plainly the Umpteenth Incarnation of the Magic Chain Reaction Weapon. You simply can't have the slow glowy shit this had and get a planet to blow up like that after you stop firing.

So I'm gonna say it's useless against a shielded target. It's actual energy effects on the atmosphere and ocean surface were far inferior to even kiloton nuclear weapons.

Phasers are chain-reaction weapons and can punch through shields. I don't see what you have against chain-reaction weapons other than their mechanism being undefined, and sci-fi mechanisms are best left undefined in most cases as Treknobabble taught us.

It probably wouldn't be totally ineffective against shields, but we have no way of knowing how effective it would be against shields. A low-end estimate would be as strong as Fed phasers (30k - 40k TW), given that the atmospheric and ground side-effects are the same as phasers.

Of course SirNitram you are also forgetting... Death Star has lost power to weapons and shields in this op .

Brian

[Batman]

So I'm gonna say it's useless against a shielded target. It's actual energy effects on the atmosphere and ocean surface were far inferior to even kiloton nuclear weapons.

Phasers are chain-reaction weapons and can punch through shields.

AQ shields, which are apparently vulnerable against NDF effects.

I don't see what you have against chain-reaction weapons other than their mechanism being undefined, and sci-fi mechanisms are best left undefined in most cases as Treknobabble taught us.

Because that makes it the next best thing to impossible to determine how they affect any target they have not been canoninally seen fired on?

It probably wouldn't be totally ineffective against shields, but we have no way of knowing how effective it would be against shields. A low-end estimate would be as strong as Fed phasers (30k - 40k TW), given that the atmospheric and ground side-effects are the same as phasers.

Try 1-10TW. 30-40PW is against AQ shields, which are vulnerable to NDF effects. No reason to assume Wars shields are, too. Since it's actual effects seem to be sub-kiloton...

Of course SirNitram you are also forgetting... Death Star has lost power to weapons and shields in this op .

Sub-kiloton-Wars vessels can take that on the hull. 1-10TW- they propably STILL can. But let's assume they CAN'T. So, how many decades did you intent to spend destroying the DS?

[SirNitram]

Anyone watching the shot of it destroying Earth will see it's plainly the Umpteenth Incarnation of the Magic Chain Reaction Weapon. You simply can't have the slow glowy shit this had and get a planet to blow up like that after you stop firing.

So I'm gonna say it's useless against a shielded target. It's actual energy effects on the atmosphere and ocean surface were far inferior to even kiloton nuclear weapons.

Phasers are chain-reaction weapons and can punch through shields. I don't see what you have against chain-reaction weapons other than their mechanism being undefined, and sci-fi mechanisms are best left undefined in most cases as Treknobabble taught us.

I did not say it could not because it was Chain Reaction. I specifically mentioned it's effects on the planet's surface in relation to known energy releases. Please actually attain proficiency in English before trying to debate me; it will make stupid comments like this vanish.



Note the lack of atmosphere catching fire.



After watching the 50's nuclear tests, it's just not impressive.

As for 'The DS lost power and shields', do I need to cite the sentence showing that the old Acclamator laughed off fusion bombs without a dent? That weapon simply isn't impressive from an actual energy delivered standpoint(AED standpoint, for future).

[brianeyci]

AQ shields, which are apparently vulnerable against NDF effects.

Borg shields are vulnerable to Fed phasers as well, and races all over the galaxy use phasers. Apparently there is a technology pinnacle where phasers become the first choice. The usual comment is that the Fed are stupid for not using DET weapons, but I don't see why it has to be stupidity rather than a technological peak where one reaches. 29th Century Feds appear to still use phasers.

Because that makes it the next best thing to impossible to determine how they affect any target they have not been canoninally seen fired on?

Maybe. Or maybe if you see chain-reaction weapons fire enough, you can find out how it works, like phasers. Chain-reaction doesn't have to be all that bad, it makes for cool special effects

Try 1-10TW. 30-40PW is against AQ shields, which are vulnerable to NDF effects. No reason to assume Wars shields are, too. Since it's actual effects seem to be sub-kiloton...

DW accepts the 30k-40k TW figure as probable against Imperial shields as well.

Sub-kiloton-Wars vessels can take that on the hull. 1-10TW- they propably STILL can. But let's assume they CAN'T. So, how many decades did you intent to spend destroying the DS?

Depends whether or not the chain reaction effects the DS's hull. Since this claim is unprovable, I'll concede it.

Brian

[brianeyci]

I did not say it could not because it was Chain Reaction. I specifically mentioned it's effects on the planet's surface in relation to known energy releases. Please actually attain proficiency in English before trying to debate me; it will make stupid comments like this vanish.

Then why did you mock the chain-reaction part rather than the yield of the weapon? You mention the pathetic yield, but you mock the chain-reaction part, I was only reacting to that. No big deal anyway.

As for 'The DS lost power and shields', do I need to cite the sentence showing that the old Acclamator laughed off fusion bombs without a dent? That weapon simply isn't impressive from an actual energy delivered standpoint(AED standpoint, for future).

Well. There's always the hope that the DS's loss to power and shields is permanent, and that they can't power the hangar doors to open to let out the TIE's .

Brian

[SirNitram]

I did not say it could not because it was Chain Reaction. I specifically mentioned it's effects on the planet's surface in relation to known energy releases. Please actually attain proficiency in English before trying to debate me; it will make stupid comments like this vanish.

Then why did you mock the chain-reaction part rather than the yield of the weapon? You mention the pathetic yield, but you mock the chain-reaction part, I was only reacting to that. No big deal anyway.

Why else? Because fools who don't understand what goes into blasting a planet apart include the VFX retard brigade who make such, and of course those who think a shot from the Xindi sphere could hurt the DS fatally.

As for 'The DS lost power and shields', do I need to cite the sentence showing that the old Acclamator laughed off fusion bombs without a dent? That weapon simply isn't impressive from an actual energy delivered standpoint(AED standpoint, for future).

Well. There's always the hope that the DS's loss to power and shields is permanent, and that they can't power the hangar doors to open to let out the TIE's .

Brian

Engines to ten percent. Ram the fucker. DS wins.