Star Trek Ground Forces

montypython · Post by **montypython** » 2005-01-28 12:58pm

If we take the best case scenario and used all Star Trek Ground units (including all games) against the Galactic Empire's units, how much more of a difference would this make?

Jon · Post by **Jon** » 2005-01-28 01:04pm

montypython wrote:If we take the best case scenario and used all Star Trek Ground units (including all games) against the Galactic Empire's units, how much more of a difference would this make?

None. Whatsoever.

Tommy J · Post by **Tommy J** » 2005-01-28 02:22pm

montypython wrote:If we take the best case scenario and used all Star Trek Ground units (including all games) against the Galactic Empire's units, how much more of a difference would this make?

BTW, this is the wrong forum for this. Regardless.

What Trekkie's fail to realize over-and-over is when you have 1 million x the numerical superority coupld with a planet destroyer at your finger tips NOTHING HELPS! Not transporters, not replicators, not phase cloaks --- NOTHING!

It would be like a Zulu tribe in Africa claiming they could take on the Entire US Army because some gave them 10 shot-guns.

Tommy J · Post by **Tommy J** » 2005-01-28 02:25pm

^^^

The other thing that Trekkies fail to realize is the Empire and it's leaders and army have NO MORALS.

When you're willing to destroy an entire planets population w/o thinking twice about it if they won't surrender vs. the Federations 'nice-nice' approach to problem solving it's a dead issue.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-01-28 02:29pm

There's only the MACO(from ENT) and The Hazard team (from Elite Force(I&II)) are true military forces (the rest are red(or gold) shirts). And neither of these forces are of any use against the Galactic Empire (or The Old Republic) The MACO and Hazard Team are not very good at large scale battles (and don't have anything besides infantry). (and isn't this a SWvST topic)

Junghalli · Post by **Junghalli** » 2005-01-28 04:11pm

What ground forces?

The Feds entire army seems to be comprised of extra Navy personel and some Marines thrown in

. Any decent army (yes, that includes Stormtroopers) would slaughter them so fast it would make their heads spin.
It's possible that they have a ground army that we just never see (after all, Trek primarily focuses on Navy action). The use of Starfleet personel as ground troops in the Dominion War MAY simply reflect the fact that their army is stretched very thin and they have an acute shortage of manpower. But anyway, it wouldn't help them. The Empire would still crush them like a bug. Sorry.
BTW, shouldn't this be in ST vs SW?

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2005-01-28 04:26pm

While I would like to third the request to move this to STvsSW, I think the
"(including all the games)" in the OP was added specifically BECAUSE there are no canon ground forces. Which brings up the question of what ground forces the games have to offer, as I have never played most of them.

montypython · Post by **montypython** » 2005-01-28 05:26pm

Actually, I'm an ex-trekker, DS9 and later pretty much killed it for me. Star Trek: New Worlds is the only Trek game that I know of that has real heavy ground units such as Phaser (Disrupter) tanks, mobile Rocket launchers and such. If this is not the right forum for this, please move this to the appropriate one. Thank you.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2005-01-28 05:46pm

And moved.

And honestly it's all about the fact that Trek's idea of combined arms is nothing more then more phasers on many semi armored vehicles.

montypython · Post by **montypython** » 2005-01-28 05:54pm

Here's a link that describes some of the units in New Worlds.

http://www.avault.com/reviews/review_te ... tnw&page=2

Gustav32Vasa · Post by **Gustav32Vasa** » 2005-01-28 07:18pm

Batman wrote:While I would like to third the request to move this to STvsSW, I think the
"(including all the games)" in the OP was added specifically BECAUSE there are no canon ground forces. Which brings up the question of what ground forces the games have to offer, as I have never played most of them.

Its true that there is no canon groundforce but if therre was they would atleast have this.

LEYTON
We've been preparing for something
like this for a long time. We
have stockpiles of phaser rifles,
personal forcefields, photon
grenades, enough to equip an
entire army. I can start placing
troops in the streets immediately.

Admiral Bravo · Post by **Admiral Bravo** » 2005-01-28 09:27pm

It wouldn't make much of a difference even if we included the games. The photon artillery and cloakable tank is neat but it would make no actual difference, at the most it might be a minor annoyance for troops (perticually the photon artillery, which I would assume it could be used against groups of soliders).

Junghalli · Post by **Junghalli** » 2005-01-28 09:41pm

Admiral Bravo wrote:It wouldn't make much of a difference even if we included the games. The photon artillery and cloakable tank is neat but it would make no actual difference, at the most it might be a minor annoyance for troops (perticually the photon artillery, which I would assume it could be used against groups of soliders).

Well, if the Feds DO have a presentable army it would help them in that it could make it quite difficult for the Imps to secure heavily populated planets like Earth. Infantry has to be the least tech-intensive form of combat, cause as Khan once observed technology may change but the basic capabilities of man don't. A man with a gun is a much more even match for a man with a phaser or a blaster than a man with a Connie is for a man with a Star Destroyer.
You could say that it wouldn't matter because the Imps could just BDZ every Fed planet, but that only gets you so far. The purpose of war is to take CONTROL of the enemy assets. DESTROYING enemy assets is expending effort for only neutral benefit.

montypython · Post by **montypython** » 2005-01-28 11:07pm

Infantry would be best in urban fighting, so vehicles in that setting would mainly be support. If fighting in open terrain, the question would be how well would the Trek vehicles stand up to Imperial equipment.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-01-29 05:41am

Well, if the Feds DO have a presentable army it would help them in that it could make it quite difficult for the Imps to secure heavily populated planets like Earth. Infantry has to be the least tech-intensive form of combat, cause as Khan once observed technology may change but the basic capabilities of man don't. A man with a gun is a much more even match for a man with a phaser or a blaster than a man with a Connie is for a man with a Star Destroyer.
You could say that it wouldn't matter because the Imps could just BDZ every Fed planet, but that only gets you so far. The purpose of war is to take CONTROL of the enemy assets. DESTROYING enemy assets is expending effort for only neutral benefit.

even with New World the Fed don't anything that would stand uo against an Imperial Walker and you have remember that the Empire all use CAS if it's possible.

Infantry would be best in urban fighting, so vehicles in that setting would mainly be support. If fighting in open terrain, the question would be how well would the Trek vehicles stand up to Imperial equipment.

like Fed starships they would beaten so badly it would be even funny(and fed don't have any infantry to speak of).

harbringer · Post by **harbringer** » 2005-01-29 05:54am

You have to ask what are the use of all these items if the will to use them is lacking. Members of star fleet have repeatedly shown (and at all levels of command) a reluctance to do the dirty stuff. Some of the imperials gas and biological weapons and combat droids would "pacify" almost any world without even resorting to stormtroopers and such. Add in AT-AT's and reliable sensors for detecting cloaked objects you suddenly have something quite nasty.

Generally ground engagements rarely get beyond the basics on this forum since it is so obvious which side will win, but even a brief though about how nasty ground combat with the empire might be and you have a scenario thats a nightmare for federation troops.

The Silence and I · Post by **The Silence and I** » 2005-01-29 02:03pm

harbringer wrote:You have to ask what are the use of all these items if the will to use them is lacking. Members of star fleet have repeatedly shown (and at all levels of command) a reluctance to do the dirty stuff. Some of the imperials gas and biological weapons and combat droids would "pacify" almost any world without even resorting to stormtroopers and such. Add in AT-AT's and reliable sensors for detecting cloaked objects you suddenly have something quite nasty.

Generally ground engagements rarely get beyond the basics on this forum since it is so obvious which side will win, but even a brief though about how nasty ground combat with the empire might be and you have a scenario thats a nightmare for federation troops.

But for the OT we assume this isn't an issue. This is a thread about how much more effective Federation ground forces could be if we include all examples--canon and otherwise--of their ground weaponry, tactics etc.
I think the disparity between Stormtroopers and Startrek forces would shrink a lot, but of course open field combat will be won by the superior Imperial walkers/hovercraft. Urban fighting would become much harder for Stormtroopers, but the Fed's still can't hold ground.

Junghalli · Post by **Junghalli** » 2005-01-29 04:49pm

Lord Revan wrote:even with New World the Fed don't anything that would stand uo against an Imperial Walker and you have remember that the Empire all use CAS if it's possible.

How well armoured are those walkers exactly? I'm thinking that maybe, just maybe you could take one out with a shoulder mounted rocket launcher if you hit it in the joints or the cockpit (as I recall the cockpit has a window over which there is no armor).

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-01-29 04:56pm

Junghalli wrote:
Lord Revan wrote:even with New World the Fed don't anything that would stand uo against an Imperial Walker and you have remember that the Empire all use CAS if it's possible.
How well armoured are those walkers exactly? I'm thinking that maybe, just maybe you could take one out with a shoulder mounted rocket launcher if you hit it in the joints or the cockpit (as I recall the cockpit has a window over which there is no armor).

Well AT-AT shrug off shot from a dedicaded anti-armor weapon that dish gun from ESB (so I don't think that the Micro photon/quantum torp laucher (from Elite Force) would dent an AT-AT) and don't forget the TIEs

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2005-01-29 05:07pm

Junghalli wrote:
Lord Revan wrote:even with New World the Fed don't anything that would stand uo against an Imperial Walker and you have remember that the Empire all use CAS if it's possible.
How well armoured are those walkers exactly? I'm thinking that maybe, just maybe you could take one out with a shoulder mounted rocket launcher if you hit it in the joints or the cockpit (as I recall the cockpit has a window over which there is no armor).

They can shrug of GJ worth of energy. You had better show such laucher can do such or you're just blithering.

Lord Zentei · Post by **Lord Zentei** » 2005-01-29 05:19pm

Ghost Rider wrote:They can shrug of GJ worth of energy. You had better show such laucher can do such or you're just blithering.

1 tonne of TNT = 4 GJ, for reference. A modern cruise missile carries about a half to one tonne of explosives, if memory serves.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2005-01-29 05:29pm

Lord Zentei wrote:
Ghost Rider wrote:They can shrug of GJ worth of energy. You had better show such laucher can do such or you're just blithering.
1 tonne of TNT = 4 GJ, for reference. A modern cruise missile carries about a half to one tonne of explosives, if memory serves.

Given the amount of GJs they showed to take...that launcher had better being firing at a damn impressive rate.

Remember the only one recorded to be destroyed, was actually said to self destruct from within. The rest were unfazed throughout combat.

Junghalli · Post by **Junghalli** » 2005-01-29 05:42pm

Ghost Rider wrote:They can shrug of GJ worth of energy. You had better show such laucher can do such or you're just blithering.

That armor can take a GJ

? <gulp> forget it! Anything that COULD harm such uberwank armor would be out of the question because the blast would kill all of your own troops!

Lord Zentei · Post by **Lord Zentei** » 2005-01-29 05:46pm

Junghalli wrote:
Ghost Rider wrote:They can shrug of GJ worth of energy. You had better show such laucher can do such or you're just blithering.
That armor can take a GJ ? <gulp> forget it! Anything that COULD harm such uberwank armor would be out of the question because the blast would kill all of your own troops!

No, you are thiking of gigatons, not gigajoules. See my post above.

Junghalli · Post by **Junghalli** » 2005-01-29 08:44pm

Lord Zentei wrote:No, you are thiking of gigatons, not gigajoules. See my post above.

OK

. That's slightly more encouraging. Those walkers are still pretty darn tough though. My guess would be the best bet would be to try what they did in ESB: trip them up. It's a good things the Imps build easily trip-able walkers instead of proper tanks. An ESB walker with treads instead... that is a nightmare not be contemplated

.

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