UFP with SW hs drive and power tech.

Gustav32Vasa · Post by **Gustav32Vasa** » 2005-02-11 04:44pm

It the same spirit as "Klingon with X-wings" lets give the Federation Hyperdrive and the power to use. What happens?

wautd · Post by **wautd** » 2005-02-11 04:44pm

on any ship right?

Gustav32Vasa · Post by **Gustav32Vasa** » 2005-02-11 04:46pm

wautd wrote:on any ship right?

Yes on fighters and runabouts but not the smaller shuttles. Say all those crafts that have Warp-drive.

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2005-02-11 07:41pm

The Borg rape the federation raw trying to get a few drives for themselves.

Junghalli · Post by **Junghalli** » 2005-02-11 08:35pm

Not much change that I can see, they'll just expand faster.
That and they come into contact with the Borg (and possibly other nasties out there) much earlier than in the mainstream Trek timeline. Don't know for sure what effect that would have, but I imagine it can't exactly be good.
BTW yes, I finally made it past youngling! Man I hated that rank! I preferred redshirt.

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » 2005-02-11 10:38pm

Lord Pounder wrote:The Borg rape the federation raw trying to get a few drives for themselves.

While the Hyperdrive would be a questionable speed advantage, the power would certainly give the Federation ships a more powerful punch. Although given a Borg cube can rountinely pulverize Federations ships in a single hit, it would seem likely they'd get their hands upon at least one intact starship.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2005-02-12 12:45am

We haven't seen any interaction between the post Dominion War Federation and the Borg. I'd like to see that before drawing other conclusions, notably because the Feds have a handful of more powerful ships. Not that they're going to be killing Tac-Cubes by any means but its more interesting to say the least.

Also, pre-voyager return or post voyager return?

Jawawithagun · Post by **Jawawithagun** » 2005-02-12 07:12am

You think the rest of their ships' systems can cope with the massively heigher power output/demand? I recon we'd see a lot of blown plasma conduits and burned-out phasers.

Gustav32Vasa · Post by **Gustav32Vasa** » 2005-02-12 07:12am

Darth Fanboy wrote:We haven't seen any interaction between the post Dominion War Federation and the Borg. I'd like to see that before drawing other conclusions, notably because the Feds have a handful of more powerful ships. Not that they're going to be killing Tac-Cubes by any means but its more interesting to say the least.

Also, pre-voyager return or post voyager return?

Post voy return. Make it one more tech they can adapt to themselves.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2005-02-12 08:35am

I only ask for post-voy return because Voyager would bring back some sort of intel hopefully to where they might be able to launch strikes against the Borg should the Feds decide to fight back.

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2005-02-12 09:53am

You do realise giving the Federation Hyperdrive and the power to use it must mean by default that the systems connected to the drive-system are able to handle and use that level of power.

Most Federation ships draw power from the Warp-Core. Now, you just gave them the ability to draw and handle power from a Hyperdrive core.

The Federation suddenly has Star Wars level Shields, Weapons and Propulsion.

So, to sum up the end result
Imagine a Sovereign Class Federation Battleship with 200+ Gigaton Phasers blasting away on a Borg cube....

Jawawithagun · Post by **Jawawithagun** » 2005-02-12 01:15pm

Solauren wrote:You do realise giving the Federation Hyperdrive and the power to use it must mean by default that the systems connected to the drive-system are able to handle and use that level of power.

Why?

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2005-02-12 02:17pm

The Federation has hyperdrive and the power to use it?

Emphasize the "power to use it part".

That means they can shut off the hyperdrive and shunt the energy into shields and weapons and OWN any other race in ST except maybe the Borg.

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2005-02-12 02:18pm

Borg Queen was killed, and the Borg Transwarp Hub with a conduit into Federation space was destroyed. The virus might propagate its way throughout the entire Borg collective.

And, although the Feds don't use transphasic torpedoes and ablative armor probably because of Temporal Prime Directive, S31 doesn't have such qualms. I can quite easily imagine Necheyev (sp) ordering S31 to use Batmobile armor against the Borg if the Federation was ever really threatened. All it would take is a few ships with these weapons, probably within S31 resources, and Borg would be pulverized.

Post-Voy, Seven knows where all the Transwarp Hubs are, so S31 sends a ship with Batmobile armor and transphasic torpedoes and destroys them all with hyperspace. Borg take years to attack the Fed after this.

Brian

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2005-02-12 02:20pm

Solauren wrote:The Federation suddenly has Star Wars level Shields, Weapons and Propulsion.

They still have to build weapons that are capable of handling that kind of output, I doubt that just by diverting power you;ve instantly got that level of strength in the phasers and shields.

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2005-02-12 02:21pm

Praxis wrote:Emphasize the "power to use it part".

That means they can shut off the hyperdrive and shunt the energy into shields and weapons and OWN any other race in ST except maybe the Borg.

How much power does it take to run hyperdrive anyway? 4 KT guns on a starfighter, and it can use hyperspace? It cannot be that great. Hyperdrive could be highly efficient. Doesn't necessarily have to be energy consuming.

Brian

YT300000 · Post by **YT300000** » 2005-02-12 02:34pm

Darth Fanboy wrote:
Solauren wrote:The Federation suddenly has Star Wars level Shields, Weapons and Propulsion.

They still have to build weapons that are capable of handling that kind of output, I doubt that just by diverting power you;ve instantly got that level of strength in the phasers and shields.

No, but as a stop-gap measure you can immediately strap on an extra dozen phaser arrays and make your shields recharge much faster, since you now have the power to support both mods.

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2005-02-12 02:39pm

YT300000 wrote:No, but as a stop-gap measure you can immediately strap on an extra dozen phaser arrays and make your shields recharge much faster, since you now have the power to support both mods.

Man how come all these figures are being thrown out without any quantification at all. If the power consumption of a hyperspace capable ship should be common knowledge, then fine I'm stupid, but I've read the main site and this fact does not come to mind. Hyperdrive could be highly efficient, does not have to mean that they use more energy than warp drive just because it is faster.

Brian

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-02-12 02:40pm

brianeyci wrote:
Praxis wrote:Emphasize the "power to use it part".

That means they can shut off the hyperdrive and shunt the energy into shields and weapons and OWN any other race in ST except maybe the Borg.
How much power does it take to run hyperdrive anyway? 4 KT guns on a starfighter, and it can use hyperspace? It cannot be that great. Hyperdrive could be highly efficient. Doesn't necessarily have to be energy consuming.

Brian

Well IIRC an X-wig is capable of going into hyperspace with full shields(at least 4 kt) and weapons(1kt (at least) per gun plus something for the torp launchers) and full engine thrust.

Also (IIRC) hyperdrive is dependent of the mass of the ship (bigger the ship more power it takes) and most UFP aren't that small

Jawawithagun · Post by **Jawawithagun** » 2005-02-12 02:43pm

Praxis wrote:The Federation has hyperdrive and the power to use it?

Emphasize the "power to use it part".

That means they can shut off the hyperdrive and shunt the energy into shields and weapons and OWN any other race in ST except maybe the Borg.

Nope. An engine integrating power generation and hyperdrive in a single module meets these requirements too. And it doesn't give them the additional ability to handle any amount of power outside this module.
Also, it doesn't say where the hyperdrive comes from. They could as well buy these modules as black boxes from some aliens.

Junghalli · Post by **Junghalli** » 2005-02-12 03:36pm

brianeyci wrote:How much power does it take to run hyperdrive anyway?

Stardestroyer.net wrote:The hyperdrive of a Star Destroyer consumes as much energy in a single hyperjump as many planetary civilizations will consume in their entire lifetimes (ref. Star Wars Technical Journal).

Wong estimates this number to be around ten million EW, a figure comparable to the output of a small red dwarf star. Hyperdrive is quite an energy guzzler, apparently.

Darth Lucifer · Post by **Darth Lucifer** » 2005-02-12 03:46pm

I think you should ask the originator of the topic what he means by "power to use it." if you want to get to the bottom of this debate.

For now, let's go with the alien black box definition of the UFP having hyperdrive as Jawawithagun suggests.

The big question is who is the Federation fighting. I assume that when Gustav says "It the same spirit as "Klingon with X-wings" he means they're gonna fight somebody. The Important question is who since you need to know that to know "what happens."

If the Feddies w/HD fight the Klingons w/o X-wings, the Lobster-heads get butt raped. End of Story.

If they have X-Wings, then this is where things get interesting, because the Klingons speed advatage is significantly reduced if not nullified. But they still have way superior firepower to the UFP. With hit and run tactics, I don't think the Klingons will have too much trouble picking off Starfleet ship by ship with small squads of X-wings. Don't forget, if we go by the Black box definition of this scenario, then the UFP still has sensors that don't have the range to track the X-Wing equipped Klingons. Hell, for all I know, an X-wing fighter may have better sensors than a Federation ship...I'll have to do more research.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2005-02-12 04:11pm

Lord Revan wrote:
brianeyci wrote:
Praxis wrote:Emphasize the "power to use it part".

That means they can shut off the hyperdrive and shunt the energy into shields and weapons and OWN any other race in ST except maybe the Borg.
How much power does it take to run hyperdrive anyway? 4 KT guns on a starfighter, and it can use hyperspace? It cannot be that great. Hyperdrive could be highly efficient. Doesn't necessarily have to be energy consuming.

Brian
Well IIRC an X-wig is capable of going into hyperspace with full shields(at least 4 kt) and weapons(1kt (at least) per gun plus something for the torp launchers) and full engine thrust.

Also (IIRC) hyperdrive is dependent of the mass of the ship (bigger the ship more power it takes) and most UFP aren't that small

Full shields, only 4 kt? Each shot is about 2 kt IIRC, and they can take multiple hits. At LEAST 10kt, probably more.

Jawawithagun · Post by **Jawawithagun** » 2005-02-12 04:12pm

IIRC the X-Wings need R2 units to calculate hyperspace jumps inflight and that what-if gives then the fighters but not the droids. So, can either power field enough onboard computing power to make on-the-fly jumps? Do we see them waiting for hours until their computers have finished calculating the next jump? Or will they rely on dirtside computing centres and subspace networks to outsource this problem?

Darth Lucifer · Post by **Darth Lucifer** » 2005-02-12 05:03pm

Jawawithagun wrote:IIRC the X-Wings need R2 units to calculate hyperspace jumps inflight and that what-if gives then the fighters but not the droids. So, can either power field enough onboard computing power to make on-the-fly jumps? Do we see them waiting for hours until their computers have finished calculating the next jump? Or will they rely on dirtside computing centres and subspace networks to outsource this problem?

Good question...that even brings up the issue of whether or not the Klingon computers can interface with the X-wings to use their star maps. Or if the "Black Boxes" in this scenario that are hooked up to the Federation Ships includes the ability to navigate. Perhaps the alien who gives away (or sells) the black box hyperspace engine suckers his customers in that way...for a few million credits more, here's the nav computer.

If neither side can figure out how to Hyperspace jump safely, then the Klingons will have to lug the X-Wings around ala Battlestar Galactica. At that point, the only defense the Feddies would have would be to take out the Klingon capships before they can launch the fighters.

I'll have to ask the originator of the Klingons with X-wings scenario if that includes R-2 units.